Is a ban on children discrimination? Liberal hypocricy?

[IBombAtomically]

Well said, Mark. I’ve also, sadly, seen bad public behavior in adults MUCH more often than I’ve seen in children. Maybe it’s just me, or maybe we Marylanders just know how to raise good kids, right Mumbles??

There seems to be a couple of different issues at hand. First, the issue of that one particular restaurant banning kids under six (which, now knowing the exact circumstances under which the rule was created, doesn’t seem like a bad idea or a big deal.) Second, the larger issue of our society becoming less tolerant of children in general (we are.) (P.S. perhaps as an indirect result of the normalizing of abortion… won’t spell out the logic but you guys know what I’m talking about). Third, the even larger issue of our society becoming less tolerant of everything in general because everyone has caught a case of Rightsitis. This, in layman’s terms, is defined as the condition under which everyone presupposes they have these “rights” to be free from any kind of inconvenience, or exposure to different opinions, or consequences for their actions (That one poster with the obnoxious tenants knows what I’m talking about!), and that everyone has to just LOVE everything about them (especially those traits that hurt others or are morally abhorrent).
I’m talking about both rude parents AND those who have encountered a Toddler Running through a Store (gasp!) and consequently had their life ruined.

Okay. Anytime you go out in public, you run the risk of being annoyed by someone. In fact, you probably have some annoying tendencies, yourself. And I don’t care how perfect you think your kids were; I GUARANTEE you they have acted up at least once and not everyone within a five mile radius thought less of you as a parent because of it.
To wrap things up, breastfeeding in public is weird IFF (if and only if) Mom isn’t covered up. But then again, that baby’s right to eat probably trumps my right to NOT see it eat. Tolerance, people.

 

[pnewton]

I find this whole discussion some what amusing. Why do we need to ban any class of people because some misbehave? Why can’t we simply ask misbehaving people to leave rather than banning whole classes of people? Is it that hard? …I’ve had far more dinners, ball games, etc. ruined by rude and unruly adults than I ever have had ruined by misbehaving children. …A child I can excuse but an adult–well there is no excuse–they should know better–the child needs to be taught–they don’t magically wake up one day with polished manners.

I guess it is the last part that I find germaine. Children need to learn proper behavior by exposure. I too find that adults can be far more of boisterous than children. I would much prefer a policy that escorts unruly families and adults to the door than this blanket-spanking of all children. In the end,

1. I support the right of a restraunt to serve who they please, even though the law does not allow this.
2. I resent that the law allows for discrimination for something as innocent as being a child yet prohibits it for something as morally critical as homosexuality.
3. I would never patronize any place that is blatantly anti-family, any more than I would patronize a place catering to sins. I believe in patronizing that which holds my values and avoiding those which reject them.

 

[Jocko_VT]

Any establishment that banned kids, I would not go to, because I currently have two young children. Later, those kids will be grown up. I still won’t go to those establishments. I’m very pro-family. We’re not talking about a saloon, here. It’s not for the protection of the kids.

I also won’t go to the Wildflower Inn, which is just down the road from me. They completely mishandled the situation with the wedding reception mentioned in the OP.

I think private businesses probably should have the right to ban whatever patronage they like. The rest of us have the right to reward or punish them with our own patronage. I choose to go to family-friendly places that don’t discriminate based on, among other things, sexuality.

 

[Calliso]

Really I donlt get the big deal about one restuarant deciding to ban children under 6 though personally I think he should raise the age. Personally I think it would be great if more restarants followed this mans policy! Also on the subject of asking people to leave. The problem with that is many of these people would put of a big fuss if asked to leave. Making the situation even worse. So then the manager will likely spend several minutes arguing with these people before finally convinving them to leave, subjecting nearby customers or even the whole restarant depending on how loud the customer/customers get to the argument. And sure if its a once in a while thing maybe not a big deal. But from what it sounds like this guy was getting several complaints about unruly children so it wasn;t a once in a while thing where he would have to ask the parents and their kids to leave.

But there are still plenty of other places to go. Those who want to be able to go somewhere that isn;t a bar or strip club or other such place where they can have adult only time will enjoy having such options. I also agree with another poster who said a childfree grocery store would be great too! Seriously I would LOVE such a thing. Though doubt it would ever happen lol!

 

[Allegra]

Really I donlt get the big deal about one restuarant deciding to ban children under 6 though personally I think he should raise the age. Personally I think it would be great if more restarants followed this mans policy! Also on the subject of asking people to leave. The problem with that is many of these people would put of a big fuss if asked to leave. Making the situation even worse. So then the manager will likely spend several minutes arguing with these people before finally convinving them to leave, subjecting nearby customers or even the whole restarant depending on how loud the customer/customers get to the argument. And sure if its a once in a while thing maybe not a big deal. But from what it sounds like this guy was getting several complaints about unruly children so it wasn;t a once in a while thing where he would have to ask the parents and their kids to leave.

But there are still plenty of other places to go. Those who want to be able to go somewhere that isn;t a bar or strip club or other such place where they can have adult only time will enjoy having such options. I also agree with another poster who said a childfree grocery store would be great too! Seriously I would LOVE such a thing. Though doubt it would ever happen lol!

A child-free hotel would make a fortune! Think of all the businesses and conventions that would flock to their gates! There is nothing more irritating in the world then someone elses little blessings playing “the-floor-is-lava” on the furniture above your head at midnight when you have to leave for a business meeting in four hours. Not to mention how much more relaxing the pool deck and hot tub would be!

 

[Calliso]

A child-free hotel would make a fortune! Think of all the businesses and conventions that would flock to their gates! There is nothing more irritating in the world then someone elses little blessings playing “the-floor-is-lava” on the furniture above your head at midnight when you have to leave for a business meeting in four hours. Not to mention how much more relaxing the pool deck and hot tub would be!

Oh man wouldnt that be great! I mean there would still be plenty of places for those with children to go. But for those traveling in business or without children for some other reason like a couple taking a weekend away from the kids or whatever It would be great to actually be able to rest and relax without having to worry about whether the kids in the hotel are going to misbehave or not! But yes to Childfree hotels!

 

[jilly4ski]

Well you know, maybe children wouldn’t be so unruly if the police or child services weren’t called every time a parent applies a corrective hand to a child’s bum or hand. Just saying, it is pretty hypocritical to ban both the disciplining of children and the presence of children.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

emphasis added.

This is not the same as “I’ve been told by relatives in Western Iowa that they have trouble finding good seafood”

Note I did not state that I had a hard time getting lobster. I complained about going to a restaurant to eat lobster which is more of an adult type meal and being bothered by kids.

You assumed my problem was finding a place to eat lobster.

I live in Des Moines Iowa and at one time we were rated as the city to have the most restaurants per capita in the USA. We recently were voted as one of the best places to live.

Whether or not you think you have misconceptions about the midwest, the way the you write gives you away.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

By the time the situation escalates to the point of having to ask a family with an unruly child or children to leave, food may have been ordered, the wait staff has taken time, and other customers have already been disturbed. The restaurant has suffered losses because of this, and it really isn’t fair to make them have to go through it when they are or should be perfectly free to set up their own business model. If that business model means child-free, the market will decide if that is a good business model. If they thrive, then other child-free businesses may also come into the market. There are plenty of restaurants that welcome children, so there is no discrimination taking place. If this were the ONLY restaurant in the known universe, then maybe you would have a case. Otherwise, hush up and go away.

 

[Lucky10279]

I could understand a ban in the very upscale restaurants (or places of that ilk) where children really have no place, but generally banning them from businesses is taking it too far I think. Rather than banning them from the start, how about having a very visibly posted policy that states that families with disruptive children will be asked to leave. I find it very annoying when I am out, say at a restaurant or movie, and someone’s child is loud, running around or screaming/crying and the parents do nothing to control the situation. If the manager of that business were to ask the parents to rein in the kid or leave, it would make the other customers very happy I’m sure. I know it would improve my mood.

 

[MarkInOregon]

Oh man wouldnt that be great! I mean there would still be plenty of places for those with children to go. But for those traveling in business or without children for some other reason like a couple taking a weekend away from the kids or whatever It would be great to actually be able to rest and relax without having to worry about whether the kids in the hotel are going to misbehave or not! But yes to Childfree hotels!

What world do you people all live in? Is it the same one I inhabit? I’ve encountered more problems with drunk and unruly and rude adults than I ever have had with unruly children. I’m more likely to be kept up by adults having a party than I am kids playing above me at midnight. I don’t ever hear “kids” at that time of night (I am guessing because they are sleeping), but I do hear adults who have had one too many or the couple on their romantic get away–not thinking about how loud they are. Do you really sit around worrying that there might be a child in the hotel and he might misbehave and bother you? I’m all for a world free of self centered people who only care about their own enjoyment and pleasure.

Peace,
Mark

 

[Calliso]

What world do you people all live in? Is it the same one I inhabit? I’ve encountered more problems with drunk and unruly and rude adults than I ever have had with unruly children. I’m more likely to be kept up by adults having a party than I am kids playing above me at midnight. I don’t ever hear “kids” at that time of night (I am guessing because they are sleeping), but I do hear adults who have had one too many or the couple on their romantic get away–not thinking about how loud they are. Do you really sit around worrying that there might be a child in the hotel and he might misbehave and bother you? I’m all for a world free of self centered people who only care about their own enjoyment and pleasure.

Peace,
Mark

No I donlt sit around all day worrying about whether or not there will be unruly loud children in the hotel I may be staying at some point in the future. But the rare time I go on vacation and the rare time I would stay in a hotel yeah I would prefer there be no unruly children and adults. And my personal experiences is that kids/teens are more likely to be noisy and bothersome… but that is just my personal experience. Also if I had to chose between the two I much rather listen to a couple of adults being a bit loud on their romantic getaway then some kids running and jumping and screaming around.

Really though for the hotel situation since it is rare that I go to an hotel it is rare that I actually experience these unruly kids. But what about those who travel alot for business? They are far more likely to encounter these bad kids. And having the options of childfree hotels would give them another option and sure it wouldn;t eliminate all potential problems of the hotel being too noisy but lets face it it eliminates a big part of it.

I donlt think most people here are complaining about the occasional baby crying or what not. Its the kids running around the restuarant getting under your feet or fussing and being a brat loudy, its the kids who are up way to late in the hotelroom next to yours playing loudly that are the problem. Some of us just want to be able to go into a hotel or resturant and not have to worry about these things. ANd besides its not like there are not plenty of places for those with children to go.

 

[pnewton]

Also if I had to chose between the two I much rather listen to a couple of adults being a bit loud on their romantic getaway then some kids running and jumping and screaming around.

Ew! Not I! Give me kids any day. Which brings me to my point. If I am more offended by a gay couple being open and being noisy than another person is by children crying, then why can’t open gays be banned if children can be banned?

Really though for the hotel situation since it is rare that I go to an hotel it is rare that I actually experience these unruly kids. But what about those who travel alot for business? They are far more likely to encounter these bad kids.

They are also far more likely to encounter drunks, rowdy teenagers or college kids.

 

[Flavius_Aetius]

Really though for the hotel situation since it is rare that I go to an hotel it is rare that I actually experience these unruly kids. But what about those who travel alot for business? They are far more likely to encounter these bad kids. And having the options of childfree hotels would give them another option and sure it wouldn;t eliminate all potential problems of the hotel being too noisy but lets face it it eliminates a big part of it.

I donlt think most people here are complaining about the occasional baby crying or what not. Its the kids running around the restuarant getting under your feet or fussing and being a brat loudy, its the kids who are up way to late in the hotelroom next to yours playing loudly that are the problem. Some of us just want to be able to go into a hotel or resturant and not have to worry about these things. ANd besides its not like there are not plenty of places for those with children to go.

Except that your solutions are this blanket ban on all children. You are disallowing all children solely for the minority of children that are bratty and ill behaved.

There is no difference to this discrimination and saying all gays should be barred from an establishment because a minority are offensively loud and obnoxious about their homosexuality, or barring all men from a bar because they have a greater chance of being loud brash drunks.

 

[Calliso]

Except that your solutions are this blanket ban on all children. You are disallowing all children solely for the minority of children that are bratty and ill behaved.

There is no difference to this discrimination and saying all gays should be barred from an establishment because a minority are offensively loud and obnoxious about their homosexuality, or barring all men from a bar because they have a greater chance of being loud brash drunks.

A blanket ban would indicate that all restuarants or all hotels or whatever were banning all children. I am talking about some hotels and some restuarants doing this not all or even the majority! In the particular case of the OP apparently the man was getting lots of complaints from his customers about unruly children. So he did what he thought best for his business.

But seriously folks lets not get all worked up about this none of us are saying we want a ban on all children everywhere, just saying it might be nice to go out somewhere nice and not having to worry about naughty children ruining things. And yes I realize adults can ruin things too but lets face it unless hotels and restuarants didn;t allow anyone in their busineses well there would be no business for them! Banning children or at least children under a certain age is a more reasonable way to do things.

 

[Calliso]

Ew! Not I! Give me kids any day. Which brings me to my point. If I am more offended by a gay couple being open and being noisy than another person is by children crying, then why can’t open gays be banned if children can be banned?

They are also far more likely to encounter drunks, rowdy teenagers or college kids.

True but like I said in another post you can;t ban everyone it just wouldn;t be practical. Banning kids or at least kids under a certain age certainly doesn;t eliminate all potential problems but it eliminates some of them. And personally I think a ban on children in hotels for instance should probably extend to 18. Or in other words you have to be 18 or older to stay at this hotel. Once again I realize that doesn;t take care of all the problems but it certainly helps and makes the hotels or restuarants job perhaps a little bit easier in dealing with the remaining bad/disruptive customers.

 

[Flavius_Aetius]

At the end of the day isn’t it still discrimination though?

You could ban children from a casino because it’s generally not a safe place for children along with the fact that gambling is illegal for anyone under a certain age (21 if I recall)

You can ban them from a bar if it’s not family friendly, like say a bikers bar.

However on what grounds should a hotel built like any other hotel ban children from thier grounds? Because people there complain all children are noisy and ill tempered?

If there was a bar favored by say members of the KKK who complained that black people who entered the establishment were all loud, obnoxious, and disruptive that wouldn’t be grounds for the bar owner to ban black people from their bar.

 

[pnewton]

And personally I think a ban on children in hotels for instance should probably extend to 18. Or in other words you have to be 18 or older to stay at this hotel. .

The funny thing is, that is the last place I would want to be caught in. My experience of adult establishments are that they are generally not places I want to be. I am sure they attract some people for that reason, but I would never enter for that very reason. That is why I do not think you will ever see this.

 

[Calliso]

At the end of the day isn’t it still discrimination though?

You could ban children from a casino because it’s generally not a safe place for children along with the fact that gambling is illegal for anyone under a certain age (21 if I recall)

You can ban them from a bar if it’s not family friendly, like say a bikers bar.

However on what grounds should a hotel built like any other hotel ban children from thier grounds? Because people there complain all children are noisy and ill tempered?

If there was a bar favored by say members of the KKK who complained that black people who entered the establishment were all loud, obnoxious, and disruptive that wouldn’t be grounds for the bar owner to ban black people from their bar.

Perhaps to create an atmosphere that is more adult friendly? The kind of hotel where one can truly get away from the kids and relax or if one is on a business traveling relax without worry about kids making a perhaps already stressful trip even more stressful. Of course like I said before this wonlt eliminate all problems. But rules could certainly be set in place that woudl help decrease the problems potentially caused by adults. Really the attraction wouldn;t just be getting away from ill behaved children but perhaps children in general. To not have to worry that the children might hear or see something they shouldn;t and so on.

 

[Calliso]

At the end of the day isn’t it still discrimination though?

You could ban children from a casino because it’s generally not a safe place for children along with the fact that gambling is illegal for anyone under a certain age (21 if I recall)

You can ban them from a bar if it’s not family friendly, like say a bikers bar.

However on what grounds should a hotel built like any other hotel ban children from thier grounds? Because people there complain all children are noisy and ill tempered?

If there was a bar favored by say members of the KKK who complained that black people who entered the establishment were all loud, obnoxious, and disruptive that wouldn’t be grounds for the bar owner to ban black people from their bar.

Perhaps to create an atmosphere that is more adult friendly? The kind of hotel where one can truly get away from the kids and relax or if one is on a business traveling relax without worry about kids making a perhaps already stressful trip even more stressful. Of course like I said before this wonlt eliminate all problems. But rules could certainly be set in place that woudl help decrease the problems potentially caused by adults. Really the attraction wouldn;t just be getting away from ill behaved children but perhaps children in general. To not have to worry that the children might hear or see something they shouldn;t and so on.