Is a drum kit a Suitable instrument for Mass?

[Sarabande]

Man! That would be awesome. He was no nonsense :knight2:

See, that’s the problem. We haven’t had it come down yet like in the past, saying, “This is how it is. Do it.” If the Church just said, “You can’t have x, y, and z” hopefully, most people would comply. It would make life much easier for church musicians, especially. As I said earlier, perhaps she is just waiting to see what can be done to refine the “problem” instruments and music styles at mass. We’ve seen her do it in the past, some of the newer styles were permitted and then there is a smackdown. I call it a smackdown, because that’s basically what they were in the past. Right now, we are in that transition, but I think until the actual “smackdown” happens after a period of time to see if there can be a change, some people will continue to interpret the docs how it fits their opinions and feelings. Believe me, there is plenty of vocal music I would love to do for mass if I had my way, and I could easily contrive ways to make it fit within a different interpretation, but I know they aren’t appropriate when I view the docs with my detached mindset, so as long as my boss doesn’t require me to sing them, I won’t do it.

That said, I have had frank and friendly conversations about this with colleagues of mine in real life who are on the other side of the fence from me or are in agreement with me. In my diocese, there has been a sort of smackdown, but some of the pastors and/or music directors (especially in the more affluent suburban parishes) don’t agree with what our diocese is doing and they are just ignoring it and nothing is being done about it, so it has become empty words. I don’t know if they would just ignore it if it came from the Vatican - the very top, but I have heard the excuse that just because it’s from the Vatican doesn’t mean she wants it in all the parishes… cathedrals, yes, but not the regular parish. We are in a society today that doesn’t take well to following the rules, especially in the US where we pride ourselves for doing things our own way (that has its own merit in certain aspects of life, of course) so there is much more of an uphill battle with getting people to follow the rules.

 

[Usige]

Folk groups in the music ministry DO NOT automatically mean the music selected will be different than the other hymns played at the other masses on the same weekend.

True except many parishes only have folk music and music directors that only approve of folk music. At a former parish I asked if we could form a schola cantorum and was told no, “it would not be appropriate for **our **liturgies.” Since when is chant not only not preferred, but inappropriate. Also it’s not the people’s liturgy, it’s the Church’s.

As for drum kits, I had to sit through the “youth band” at the Feast of All Saints last night. The drummer and guitarist both had flourishes during the worship music and having to listen to “doo-doo-doo-doo, doo-doo-doo-doo, doo-doo-doo-doo-crash” at the end of the Eucharist was not conductive to prayer.

 

[TheMc]

At a former parish I asked if we could form a schola cantorum and was told no, “it would not be appropriate for **our **liturgies.” Since when is chant not only not preferred, but inappropriate. Also it’s not the people’s liturgy, it’s the Church’s.

Sick. Just sick.

 

[I_Thirst]

True except many parishes only have folk music and music directors that only approve of folk music. At a former parish I asked if we could form a schola cantorum and was told no, “it would not be appropriate for **our **liturgies.” Since when is chant not only not preferred, but inappropriate. Also it’s not the people’s liturgy, it’s the Church’s.

I formed and ran a schola cantorum in my former parish for a year. The Director of Worship (the parish doesn’t have a Director of Music) said that “there will never be chant or polyphony” in that parish.

The Director of Worship told us that we could have a schola cantorum (but never for Mass) if we allowed the DW to vet membership and that we had an “official” member of the Music Ministry present at all our rehearsals. We met for a while in member’s homes till the parish (the DW) softened her stance and allowed us to book a room in parish for rehearsals (but not in any of the music rooms). Eventually, I grew weary of the hostility and disbanded the schola.

I now attend an Eastern Catholic Church. No drums there.

 

[Sarabande]

I formed and ran a schola cantorum in my former parish for a year. The Director of Worship (the parish doesn’t have a Director of Music) said that “there will never be chant or polyphony” in that parish.

The Director of Worship told us that we could have a schola cantorum (but never for Mass) if we allowed the DW to vet membership and that we had an “official” member of the Music Ministry present at all our rehearsals. We met for a while in member’s homes till the parish (the DW) softened her stance and allowed us to book a room in parish for rehearsals (but not in any of the music rooms). Eventually, I grew weary of the hostility and disbanded the schola.

I now attend an Eastern Catholic Church. No drums there.

This kind of thing sabotages any kind of success in bringing back scholas and other music for the liturgy` and sometimes when I’m not in as positive of an attitude, I think it is rather intentional. It sort of like putting in a half-hearted effort to introduce music to a parish. I had a former boss (the pastor) like that. He didn’t like the idea that I taught my children’s choir how to chant the very simple chants and made sure we never did it at mass. (Some of them were there in the pews at my nuptial mass, though, chanting their little hearts out along with the choir and anyone else in the pews who remembered the chants.)

 

[I_Thirst]

This kind of thing sabotages any kind of success in bringing back scholas and other music for the liturgy` and sometimes when I’m not in as positive of an attitude, I think it is rather intentional. It sort of like putting in a half-hearted effort to introduce music to a parish.

Chant was mentioned in a music ministry memo in regards to the new translations. It basically said that since the parish wasn’t a chanting one there wouldn’t be chant.

They’ve ordered the updated Gather hymnal, which imo will be best utilized during Daily Mass.

 

[TheMc]

It basically said that since the parish wasn’t a chanting one there wouldn’t be chant.

I’ve always hated this excuse. There’s an easy way to change this situation…

 

[I_Thirst]

I’ve always hated this excuse. There’s an easy way to change this situation…

The easy way I found was changing to an Eastern Catholic Church. The Latin Rite parishes in my area (and just about the whole diocese with barely a handful of exceptions) don’t chant.

Even the Diocese’s Cathedral, which has a schola cantorum, only has chant once a month at a Vigil Mass. Our diocese has about a million Catholics and 80 parishes.

One is more likely to hear drums than chant at any Mass in this diocese.

 

[jimrob]

I refer you to Psalm 150.

 

[I_Thirst]

I refer you to Psalm 150.

It is not so much the instruments used, but how they are currently used.

 

[NewsTheMan]

I refer you to Psalm 150.

What about it? It’s listing instruments to praise God with. My history of Jewish culture isn’t great, nor about how Jews worshipped back then. However, it seems to me that there is no chance that they would’ve gone into the sanctuary and played those instruments. No way. Not a chance. Just like today if a painter said, “I praise God with my art” does that mean in 3000 years someone says “Ah, yes! You see, they painted during the Mass”.

 

[ProVobis]

What about it? It’s listing instruments to praise God with. My history of Jewish culture isn’t great, nor about how Jews worshipped back then. However, it seems to me that there is ** no chance that they would’ve gone into the sanctuary** and played those instruments. No way. Not a chance. Just like today if a painter said, “I praise God with my art” does that mean in 3000 years someone says “Ah, yes! You see, they painted during the Mass”.

Much less the Holy of Holies. Excellent point.

 

[NewsTheMan]

Much less the Holy of Holies. Excellent point.

It’s really quite absurd when people take those lines of scripture and use it as proof that certain instruments are okay at Mass. I mean…

a) Different culture - what is sacred to us, may not be sacred to them
b) Different worship - Mass is the representation of Christ on the Cross; we are transported to Calvary. For Jews, it’s much different.
c) Different instruments - “See! Psalm 150 mentions a stringed harp, thus it’s okay for us to use an electric guitar!”
d) The quoted scriptures aren’t even talking about using them during worship
e) The Church has spoken

All the above can be expanded upon into essays and books I am sure.

 

[Sarabande]

What about it? It’s listing instruments to praise God with. My history of Jewish culture isn’t great, nor about how Jews worshipped back then. However, it seems to me that there is no chance that they would’ve gone into the sanctuary and played those instruments. No way. Not a chance. Just like today if a painter said, “I praise God with my art” does that mean in 3000 years someone says “Ah, yes! You see, they painted during the Mass”.

I’m also not well versed in the culture either, but I had asked a former voice teacher of mine about this a while back when I was learning more about our own musical heritage. As background, she is a Conservative Jew, but is well-acquainted with Orthodox Judaism, being raised as such, and with Reform Judaism. She spent her entire life as a professional musician over in Europe and the States and when she retired, went through a lot of training to become a Jewish cantor with one of their most renowned and respected cantors in the area, learning proper chanting styles, history, Hebrew, etc. If my memory serves me correctly, she related that it wouldn’t have been something they used in actual worship. I do remember very clearly when I was coming home with her after she was training the bat and bar mitvah students in their Hebrew and chanting, how many of the Reform Synogogues with their music was much like what you heard in a lot of Catholic masses (in terms of style and instruments - not hymns, of course) and that was actually considered rather liberal along with their laxity in their teachings on Judaism… this is according to what she was telling me. (Funny thing is that she is pretty liberal about some things, but when it comes to her faith, she is not.) The services I attended with her had no instrumental accompaniment. Just her chanting the prayers as the cantor and also the congregation chanting/singing when needed.

 

[JL2011]

I play the drums every Sunday at 7 p.m. in my parish. I think we’ve gotten a couple complaints (in the almost 3 years I’ve been playing), but not a single one from the priest. I think he even likes it.

 

[Rascalking]

I play the drums every Sunday at 7 p.m. in my parish. I think we’ve gotten a couple complaints (in the almost 3 years I’ve been playing), but not a single one from the priest. I think he even likes it.

Regardless of what anyone else says, I say thank you my friend.

 

[Te_Deum]

youtube.com/watch?v=b4g-wx2Y_wg

 

[JL2011]

OK, just to clarify on my comment: I’m not saying that because I do it it’s alright, I’m just saying what I’ve gotten (a couple complaints from people) and what I haven’t gotten (complaints from the priest) in my almost 3 years of playing the drums at Mass. I know I could be wrong, but I also think it would be strange if the priest permitted it knowing it’s wrong.

Besides, drum sets have been used in my parish long before I entered, which is about 3 years ago. The past drum set I used was about 10 years old.

Regardless of what anyone else says, I say thank you my friend.

Sorry, but I just prefer to remain neutral on this, if you don’t mind.

 

[FAH]

But surly traditional Catholic hymns can’t be accompanied by a drum kit. Does ‘To Jesus Christ, our Sov’reign King’ sound right accompanied by a drum kit! And I would hate to hear Tántum ergo with drums in the background. So what can be accompanied with drums, bad sometimes heretical hymns that inspire no sense of sacredness and cause much friction and division as shown here.

 

[agapewolf]

But surly traditional Catholic hymns can’t be accompanied by a drum kit. Does ‘To Jesus Christ, our Sov’reign King’ sound right accompanied by a drum kit! And I would hate to hear Tántum ergo with drums in the background. So what can be accompanied with drums, bad sometimes heretical hymns that inspire no sense of sacredness and cause much friction and division as shown here.

I’ve done “to jesus christ our sovereign king” with drums and its great.