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VociMike
Guest
Does the Church hold up “moving things along faster” as an ideal for Sunday Masses? Or does that just invoke one of the great stereotypes of the Mass in the “old days”?
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VociMike
Guest
Yes, I was just going by the poster’s listed choices. Certainly those parishes that can pull off a polyphonic Mass are to be envied, given the high esteem in which the Church holds sacred polyphony.
And an orchestral Mass, that is a very rarified thing indeed.
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onetimeposter
Guest
Growing up, we had a Parish Priest who could whip through a Sunday Mass ( sans musique) in about 25 minutes or even less.
You would not believe the attendance spike in the Priest’s arrival.
He was very very fast…ordinary Catholics liked it, judging by the increase in parishioners.
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VociMike
Guest
But is it an ideal that traditionalist Catholics should strive for?
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onetimeposter
Guest
If they want to fill the pews with converts or bring back non-practicing Catholics into the fold…then I say yes.
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lizaanne
Guest
We went to Mass yesterday at 6:30am at our parish. It was the OF, and there was no music. It was simple and beautiful. All responses were spoken, nothing was sung. No one tried to rush the Mass, it was perfectly paced.
I love a very simple and quiet Mass like this from time to time - the Mass is so very beautiful anyway, even in the bare bones state of no music.
~Liza
I love a very simple and quiet Mass like this from time to time - the Mass is so very beautiful anyway, even in the bare bones state of no music.
~Liza
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VociMike
Guest
But what does the Church say?
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onetimeposter
Guest
I dunno.
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benedictgal
Guest
I hope that if the Alleluia wasn’t sung, it was omitted. That is the norm. If it’s not sung, it’s not done.
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mattkubes
Guest
Well for the first time (that I remember at least), the Alleluia was omitted in my parish yesterday because it was not sung. Although I don’t know why we can’t do it a capella…because the version that our “youth choir” normally does is terrible (I’m young, but I can’t stand the sound of synthesized steel drums and a drum set starting off the Gospel).
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KestrelRose
Guest
“The musical tradition of the universal Church is a treasure of inestimable value, greater even than that of any other art. The main reason for this pre-eminence is that, as a combination of sacred music and words, it forms a necessary or integral part of the solemn liturgy.” The Vatican Collection Vatican Council II Volume 1 Page 31 # 112.
In regards to the Liturgy of the Hours
" … in celebrating the liturgy, singing is not to be regarded as an extrinsic embellishment to prayer; rather, it wells up from the depths of a soul intent on prayer and the praise of God and reveals in a full and perfect way the community nature of Christian worship
The Liturgy of the Hours Volume 1 Page 93 # 270.
“The faithful fulfil their liturgical role by making that full, conscious and active participation which is demanded by the nature of the liturgy itself and which is, by reason of baptism, the right and duty of the Christian people. The participation (a) Should be above all internal, in the sense that by it the faithful join their mind to what they pronounce or hear, and cooperate with heavenly grace, (b) Must be, on the other hand, external also, that is, such as to show the internal participation by gestures and bodily attitudes, by the acclamations, responses and singing.”
“16. One cannot find anything more religious and more joyful in sacred celebrations than a whole congregation expressing its faith and devotion in song. Therefore the active participation of the whole people, which is shown in singing, is to be carefully promoted…”
The Vatican Collection Vatican Council II Volume 1 Page 84 # 15, # 16
In regards to the Liturgy of the Hours
" … in celebrating the liturgy, singing is not to be regarded as an extrinsic embellishment to prayer; rather, it wells up from the depths of a soul intent on prayer and the praise of God and reveals in a full and perfect way the community nature of Christian worship
The Liturgy of the Hours Volume 1 Page 93 # 270.
“The faithful fulfil their liturgical role by making that full, conscious and active participation which is demanded by the nature of the liturgy itself and which is, by reason of baptism, the right and duty of the Christian people. The participation (a) Should be above all internal, in the sense that by it the faithful join their mind to what they pronounce or hear, and cooperate with heavenly grace, (b) Must be, on the other hand, external also, that is, such as to show the internal participation by gestures and bodily attitudes, by the acclamations, responses and singing.”
“16. One cannot find anything more religious and more joyful in sacred celebrations than a whole congregation expressing its faith and devotion in song. Therefore the active participation of the whole people, which is shown in singing, is to be carefully promoted…”
The Vatican Collection Vatican Council II Volume 1 Page 84 # 15, # 16
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lizaanne
Guest
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SacredHeartFan
Guest
Yes and no. If the means are avaliable and it is a normal parish mass then it is not justifiable. That is what makes sunday so special. Out of all the daily masses it is the only one with three readings and in most cases music. It would be justifiable if they are celebrating mass in secret due to persecution (i.e. communism) or at war (i.e. archdiocese of the U.S. Military)
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Sabda
Guest
This is exactly the way we do it at our parish. We have one lady who sings and leads everyone. If she isn’t there then her daughter does the singing.
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Sarabande
Guest
Don’t know if it’s justifiable, but after some of the masses I’ve attended at some churches of late, I’d much prefer it if those masses could have had no music.
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ProVobis
Guest
I guess it’s me but I disagree with this. I feel there should be no lead singing and no one tries to show up anyone else in the pews on it. Some like me are very reluctant to sing when there is someone close by that loves to show off his/her voice. I think it’s rude, to tell you the truth, and nothing that brings me closer to God.
If you’re going to sing, do it as reverently as you expect the Mass to be. Otherwise, you’re just adding to the noise pollution.
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allana
Guest
i have no problem with no music at sunday mass, and when we do have music a church organ is all i need, i usually attend protestant churches to see what their services are like and the ruckus they make with their drums, synthesizers, etc cause me to feel disoriented, and partially deaf afterwards. If someone were praising me like that i would shut my ears!
when i ask them why make so much noise… their reply is the bible says ‘make a joyful noise unto the Lord’ lol i feel sorry for these poor people.
when i ask them why make so much noise… their reply is the bible says ‘make a joyful noise unto the Lord’ lol i feel sorry for these poor people.
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VociMike
Guest
I think you misunderstand. The Propers are not something that the people in the pews can pull off - they’re just too involved, and they change every day. They are always sung by a cantor or schola (small group). Everything else (except those parts belonging to the priest, of course) can be sung by the people - these tend to be simpler, and even more importantly, they don’t change every day.
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VociMike
Guest
But this is not the ideal that the Church holds up for the liturgy, and I think traditionalist Catholics have taken upon themselves a particular obligation to uphold the ideal when and where they can.
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mattkubes
Guest
I suppose I feel the opposite way - I’ve always felt that those who have been given the gift of great singing voices should be able to sing (that doesn’t apply to me
).We have to keep in mind that these people probably aren’t singing loudly on purpose - in fact, they probably don’t feel that they’re singing loudly at all (or trying to “show anyone up”, which implies guilt). If you’ve been trained to project your voice or to sing with your diaphragm, you’d have to constantly think about changing your singing style, and would probably lose focus on what was happening in front of you. Besides, when we’re singing, it’s helpful to focus on the words being said by the congregation.
I guess we have different ideas of what constitutes reverent singing (and no, I’m not thinking of Aretha Franklin belting out notes or anything close to that).
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