Is a sinful act greater than a sinful thought?

[thecross]

I am starting this thread due to the signature quote from a poster named LoveJesus:

My contention is that both are sins, but the person actually committing an abortion has still committed a greater sin. I base this on common sense and on writings such as this by St Ignatius of Loyola:
sacred-texts.com/chr/seil/seil09.htm
And like most mortal sins, they stay with you forever, for eternity. Even with a sincere confession, it is still dificult to erase the guilt.The lady involved has a nme for the child, celebrates its birthday, and talks to her little saint in heaven. Hopefully, she soon forgives herself. Its a greater sin because it is harder to forgive and forget.
Sin is sin, is there such a thing as a greater sin.?

To me, it is blatantly obvious that the actual abortion is a greater sin, because a life has been taken. It is no different than thinking about murdering, stealing, etc. as opposed to doing it.

And we must also forgive the lady who has the abortion, and give her comfort, she is really in pain.

 

[thecross]

Intent is a commitment…honestly, I thought that was both obvious and clear. I apologize if it was not. Without a personal commitment to do a grave act, there is no mortal sin. Thinking about it is not enough.

Thinking, yes, but actually desiring it, the sin, the abortion, and planning how you will go about doing it, is the same as committing the sin, in your heart you committed the sin, in you heart you aborted your son, and now you are going to do it again with the knife.
Have a nice day

 

[thecross]

Well, it is what I have been saying all along, so we obviously have been talking past each other. I’ve never said that thoughts alone (i.e. without serious consideration/entertainment) are mortal. Here are some things you said which confused me:

Note there was no mention of intention to act…only actions.

This does not match your most recent post, which acknowledged that the intention to have an abortion could be a mortal sin.

Clarity is difficult to attain sometimes.

Your statement was ‘‘is a sinful act greater than a sinful thought’’ I am saying that sinful is both the same, equal, the insult to Jesus is there. Are you talking about a sinful temptation? Sinful temptations are not sins until they are desired, accepted.

 

[thecross]

Intention is a commited act…that has been my point all along. If one intends to take the life of another, they have a commited heart and that is what makes it a mortal sin. If one simply holds anger at someone else, that is not mortally sinful because there is no intent to take it any further, there is no commitment in heart to raise the level to real action. Intent and commitment are nearly the same thing in the context of mortal sin.

Without real action, or the commited intent to act, there cannot be mortal sin.

BTW, of course I agree that we can sin in thought, word or deed…I disagree on the use of mortal sin for thoughts or words if a commited intent is not present.

So you can take the name of thy lord in vain, often, if you are not really serious.
If you mentally call a guy a SOB,or G/D him , its not a mortal sin?
Thanks for letting me know.
’

 

[irishpatrick]

Thinking, yes, but actually desiring it, the sin, the abortion, and planning how you will go about doing it, is the same as committing the sin, in your heart you committed the sin, in you heart you aborted your son, and now you are going to do it again with the knife.
Have a nice day

Only if there is a commitment/intent to carry out the act. Thoughts cannot be mortally sinful unless intent/commitment exists with those thoughts.

Have a great day to you.

 

[irishpatrick]

So you can take the name of thy lord in vain, often, if you are not really serious.
If you mentally call a guy a SOB,or G/D him , its not a mortal sin?
Thanks for letting me know.
’

If it just an expression, then it is a venial sin. If there is intent/commitment to mis-use the Lord’s name, then it is a mortal sin. Many people have habits of using Jesus’ name in a very poor way…yet they have no intent or commitment to mis-use the Lord’s name, instead to them it is just a very poor expression…that makes it a tasteless venial sin…not a mortal sin.

Mentally calling someone an SoB is not a mortal sin. It is a venial sin. Of course, under the right conditions that can be a mortal as well. Even if you call someone an SoB to their face, the conditions of being mortal still apply and chances are high that in nearly all cases the conditions have not been met.

IMO, God would not set it up so that nearly everything we do becomes a mortal sin…we remain human and fallible and God knows that and it is commited intent that matters.

It is also important to understand that venial sins are also sins…and if one constantly commits venial sins they are weakening their own soul and their resolve and there is every likelihood that they will fall into actual mortal sin.

 

[rlg94086]

And we must also forgive the lady who has the abortion, and give her comfort, she is really in pain.

That is a given and has nothing to do with the sinfulness of the act.

 

[rlg94086]

Your statement was ‘‘is a sinful act greater than a sinful thought’’ I am saying that sinful is both the same, equal, the insult to Jesus is there.

It sounds like you are agreeing with the Fundamentalist Christian viewpoint that all sin is the same. That is not what the Catholic Church teaches. Yes, they are all “insults” to Jesus, but not all insults are equal in gravity:
Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.

To me, it is clear that seriously desiring an abortion, while possibly a mortal sin, is not as grave as actually procuring an abortion, regardless of legality.

thecross:

Are you talking about a sinful temptation? Sinful temptations are not sins until they are desired, accepted.

No. I agree with you and irishpatrick that sinful temptations are not sins. As I mentioned before, they have to be entertained/desired to become sin.

 

[LoveJesus]

The quote in my sig was meant to apply to a woman who intends to get an abortion if it is legal. Given the choice (and if the law wasn’t in the way), she would get one. To me, she is as equal a sinner as a woman who gets an abortion. The anti-abortion movement, IMO, seems to be focusing on law as the culprit too much (it should be focused on), but not holding the people who actually decide to have abortions culpable (and trying to change their morals).