Is a 'spark' always necessary?

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Yes I agree that we oftentimes don’t realise what our underlying motivations are for doing things.

And I think you’ve raised an important point that we should all be aware of, which is that if we use another person to further our own goals of holiness (or the desire to view ourselves as holy) then we have missed the point. And it’s true that we can do this without realising it so it’s super important that it should be pointed out so we can adjust our thinking.

xxx
 
Sometimes, hearing the truth does hurt, but that doesn’t make it any less important to hear. We all want to be nurturing and kind but as a woman, I too felt just awful at what the OP was saying about his lady friend. Just sad, and awful…and when I was a single lady, I would never have given the time of day to ANY man who thought I should feel pretty lucky he came along because well…“I ain’t gettin’ any younger”. Ouch!!

She deserves to have the man who is courting her believe in his heart that there is no one else for him, not the other way around. He shouldn’t even want to imagine not having her in his life, and he should love the smell of her hair (Ok, I am waxing nostalgic now) but you get what I mean? THAT is courting.

Just like the moment I knew that being Catholic was for me, he should know the woman he is meant to be with. Trying to see if she looks good on paper is for bank mergers, not marriages. I’m sorry OP…you deserve better too!!! Not just her. You deserve to feel those pangs of missing someone, and heart flutters when she comes in the door. Those are the moments when you can really see and feel God at work.

Yes, I am a romantic. Guilty.
 
Sometimes, hearing the truth does hurt, but that doesn’t make it any less important to hear. We all want to be nurturing and kind but as a woman, I too felt just awful at what the OP was saying about his lady friend. Just sad, and awful…and when I was a single lady, I would never have given the time of day to ANY man who thought I should feel pretty lucky he came along because well…“I ain’t gettin’ any younger”. Ouch!!

She deserves to have the man who is courting her believe in his heart that there is no one else for him, not the other way around. He shouldn’t even want to imagine not having her in his life, and he should love the smell of her hair (Ok, I am waxing nostalgic now) but you get what I mean? THAT is courting.

Just like the moment I knew that being Catholic was for me, he should know the woman he is meant to be with. Trying to see if she looks good on paper is for bank mergers, not marriages. I’m sorry OP…you deserve better too!!! Not just her. You deserve to feel those pangs of missing someone, and heart flutters when she comes in the door. Those are the moments when you can really see and feel God at work.

Yes, I am a romantic. Guilty.
Thanks to all for your honest posts. I now realise how insensitive my earlier post about ‘not getting any younger’ looks. That’s honestly not the way I’m thinking about this relationship, though I can’t deny the idea of not being young together and having many years of youth to raise a family together isn’t what I’d planned. At the same time, God doesn’t always go by what we’d ‘planned’. If anything, I think I’m the one who’s getting old fast. I can see how I’m not exactly an attractive prospect as a husband for the next 3 years while I live on almost nothing and complete my graduate degree, and by then I’ll be 30, and won’t be able to be a young husband and father with anyone. I do feel that if I don’t marry while still young, then maybe I’m not called to marry at all.

Of course I think of my girlfriend as more than a means to my own holiness. I want to love her! She is the most wonderful, caring, aware, beautiful person, with a lively Catholic faith that she is still developing and exploring, from a strong Catholic family, she’s dedicated to her job and loves learning, and enjoys so many of the same things I do. If anything, my biggest problem is seeing how I can help her! I have some head-knowledge of my faith, but she’s lived it with such devotion. I can enjoy spending time with her, but she’s the one with the job, the income, the car, etc. while I’m a poor graduate student. I don’t know what I have to offer, but I know she enjoys spending time with me, so I’ll keep things up for now.

Yes, I still have feelings for my ex, but once I know things are serious, as I hope I soon will, I will be able to give up those feelings for good. We can all avoid sinful affections, it’s just a case of focussing on something else. Love will come with time, if it’s right.
 
By the way, as you could guess, I would strongly agree with you that dating someone who is not a practicing Catholic would not be a safe road to travel.

Perhaps you just need some more time to be single. Perhaps you still have strong emotional ties to your ex-girlfriend.

🙂
You see, this is one of the few areas where Church advice (and, in fact, the Church doesn’t say don’t date/marry a non-Catholic, it just says be cautious) and my life experience diverge.

When I first met my ex, she was a practicing pagan and I was Anglican-wanted-to-be-Catholic-but-too-scared-to-make-the-jump.

Anyway, she was kinda getting fed up with her faith, and I tried to counsel her, not to convert her, just suggest things that had worked from my perspective, like getting someone more experienced in the faith to be a spiritual director, etc. She got to reading the Bible, just to see where I was coming from, and she decided to become Catholic. I thought ‘what the heck, might as well jump now’ and became Catholic too.

It was only once we were both well on the road to converting that we realised we were in fact very different kinds of Catholics, that the previous religious differences masked deeper differences of personality, which God wanted us to use in different directions, and this, not the difference of creed, actually pulled us apart.

So, basically, Catholic/non-Catholic is not quite the gulf people often think.

Or maybe I’m just trying to rationalise my attraction to a non-Catholic girl?

Or maybe I’m just looking for a replica of my ex?

Or maybe I’m just looking for an excuse not to be with my current girlfriend, not even sure if we are boyfriend and girlfriend yet, it’s such early days?

Wow, I’m confused. Came in with one question, left with many many more. Last time I ask for dating advice! :rotfl: 🤷 :confused:
 
Well I don’t think you’re rationalising your attraction:), you’re just sharing your experience. I think the issue with dating non-christians does generally apply though - but that’s not to say it’s the same for everyone. For myself I think the main risks are around a lot of future arguments - how to date (in chastity or not?) , whether to marry, and if so how to marry, whether to baptise the children, how to raise and school them, etc.

Anyway, my advice to you overall is to stop. Stop rushing, stop thinking, stop forcing feelings, just stop. Rest and be still for a while.

And rewind. Don’t call this girl your girlfriend, because you don’t feel that way about her. Just call her your friend. Call her someone you’re still getting to know. Because that’s the truth of it. And tell her that. Don’t lead her on unless you know that you want to be with her. She deserves that respect.

But basically, today is not the day you have to work out the rest of your life. Switch off your brain for a bit and give the Holy Spirit some room to work.

God bless,
xxx
 
But basically, today is not the day you have to work out the rest of your life. Switch off your brain for a bit and give the Holy Spirit some room to work.

God bless,
xxx
Thanks griffibo, powering down as I write this… :yawn: :sleep: :heaven:
 
Thanks to all for your honest posts. I now realise how insensitive my earlier post about ‘not getting any younger’ looks. That’s honestly not the way I’m thinking about this relationship, though I can’t deny the idea of not being young together and having many years of youth to raise a family together isn’t what I’d planned. At the same time, God doesn’t always go by what we’d ‘planned’. If anything, I think I’m the one who’s getting old fast. I can see how I’m not exactly an attractive prospect as a husband for the next 3 years while I live on almost nothing and complete my graduate degree, and by then I’ll be 30, and won’t be able to be a young husband and father with anyone. I do feel that if I don’t marry while still young, then maybe I’m not called to marry at all.

Of course I think of my girlfriend as more than a means to my own holiness. I want to love her! She is the most wonderful, caring, aware, beautiful person, with a lively Catholic faith that she is still developing and exploring, from a strong Catholic family, she’s dedicated to her job and loves learning, and enjoys so many of the same things I do. If anything, my biggest problem is seeing how I can help her! I have some head-knowledge of my faith, but she’s lived it with such devotion. I can enjoy spending time with her, but she’s the one with the job, the income, the car, etc. while I’m a poor graduate student. I don’t know what I have to offer, but I know she enjoys spending time with me, so I’ll keep things up for now.

Yes, I still have feelings for my ex, but once I know things are serious, as I hope I soon will, I will be able to give up those feelings for good. We can all avoid sinful affections, it’s just a case of focussing on something else. Love will come with time, if it’s right.
My dear, 30 is not old. I married my husband when he was 46…and he is a wonderful person, and had never been married before. And money is never a reason to marry anyone…when you give it to God, whether it be financial burdens, or matters of the heart, God gives us what we need. My parents didn’t have me until they were in their 30’s…they were wonderful parents and are still married.
 
[SIGN][/SIGN]
Well I don’t think you’re rationalising your attraction:), you’re just sharing your experience. I think the issue with dating non-christians does generally apply though - but that’s not to say it’s the same for everyone. For myself I think the main risks are around a lot of future arguments - how to date (in chastity or not?) , whether to marry, and if so how to marry, whether to baptise the children, how to raise and school them, etc.

Anyway, my advice to you overall is to stop. Stop rushing, stop thinking, stop forcing feelings, just stop. Rest and be still for a while.

And rewind. Don’t call this girl your girlfriend, because you don’t feel that way about her. Just call her your friend. Call her someone you’re still getting to know. Because that’s the truth of it. And tell her that. Don’t lead her on unless you know that you want to be with her. She deserves that respect.

But basically, today is not the day you have to work out the rest of your life. Switch off your brain for a bit and give the Holy Spirit some room to work.

God bless,
xxx
I’d second that. You are over thinking things. Much talk has been made about approaching this by feelings and reason, but remember feelings can lie, and reasoning may not actually give an accurate reflection of the situation. Either of which can lead you to doing the wrong things. You should try to quiet down, be patient, and discern.
 
In my humble opinion sexual attraction or desire is not the best basis for marriage - looks fade people get fat/thin/ill/pregnant etc!!!

The best basis for a relationship is trust, friendship, honesty and a desire to stay together that commitment is more important than anything else!

My future husband is my best friend my closest companion and the guy who makes me laugh and makes me happy! If you get on well with each other than go for it regardless of sexual feelings!
 
In my humble opinion sexual attraction or desire is not the best basis for marriage - looks fade people get fat/thin/ill/pregnant etc!!!

The best basis for a relationship is trust, friendship, honesty and a desire to stay together that commitment is more important than anything else!

My future husband is my best friend my closest companion and the guy who makes me laugh and makes me happy! If you get on well with each other than go for it regardless of sexual feelings!
Sexual attraction and a ‘spark’ are not always the same thing. I get tingles from the man I love just watching him do the dishes, or holding his hand in a movie. Has nothing to do with sex.
 
Sexual attraction and a ‘spark’ are not always the same thing. I get tingles from the man I love just watching him do the dishes, or holding his hand in a movie. Has nothing to do with sex.
Completely agree.
 
You see, this is one of the few areas where Church advice (and, in fact, the Church doesn’t say don’t date/marry a non-Catholic, it just says be cautious) and my life experience diverge.
The Catechism says “The spouses risk experiencing the tragedy of Christian disunity even in the heart of their own home.” That is a bit stronger than “be cautious…”

Mixed marriages and disparity of cult
1633
In many countries the situation of a mixed marriage (marriage between a Catholic and a baptized non-Catholic) often arises. It requires particular attention on the part of couples and their pastors. A case of marriage with disparity of cult (between a Catholic and a non-baptized person) requires even greater circumspection.
[1634](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1634.htm’)😉 Difference of confession between the spouses does not constitute an insurmountable obstacle for marriage, when they succeed in placing in common what they have received from their respective communities, and learn from each other the way in which each lives in fidelity to Christ. But the difficulties of mixed marriages must not be underestimated. They arise from the fact that the separation of Christians has not yet been overcome. The spouses risk experiencing the tragedy of Christian disunity even in the heart of their own home. Disparity of cult can further aggravate these difficulties. Differences about faith and the very notion of marriage, but also different religious mentalities, can become sources of tension in marriage, especially as regards the education of children. The temptation to religious indifference can then arise.
1635 According to the law in force in the Latin Church, a mixed marriage needs for liceity the express permission of ecclesiastical authority.137 In case of disparity of cult an express dispensation from this impediment is required for the validity of the marriage.138 This permission or dispensation presupposes that both parties know and do not exclude the essential ends and properties of marriage; and furthermore that the Catholic party confirms the obligations, which have been made known to the non-Catholic party, of preserving his or her own faith and ensuring the baptism and education of the children in the Catholic Church.139
[1636](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1636.htm’)😉 Through ecumenical dialogue Christian communities in many regions have been able to put into effect a common pastoral practice for mixed marriages. Its task is to help such couples live out their particular situation in the light of faith, overcome the tensions between the couple’s obligations to each other and towards their ecclesial communities, and encourage the flowering of what is common to them in faith and respect for what separates them. 1637 In marriages with disparity of cult the Catholic spouse has a particular task: "For the unbelieving husband is consecrated through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is consecrated through her husband."140 It is a great joy for the Christian spouse and for the Church if this “consecration” should lead to the free conversion of the other spouse to the Christian faith.141 Sincere married love, the humble and patient practice of the family virtues, and perseverance in prayer can prepare the non-believing spouse to accept the grace of conversion.
 
Thanks to all for your honest posts. I now realise how insensitive my earlier post about ‘not getting any younger’ looks. That’s honestly not the way I’m thinking about this relationship, though I can’t deny the idea of not being young together and having many years of youth to raise a family together isn’t what I’d planned. At the same time, God doesn’t always go by what we’d ‘planned’. If anything, I think I’m the one who’s getting old fast. I can see how I’m not exactly an attractive prospect as a husband for the next 3 years while I live on almost nothing and complete my graduate degree, and by then I’ll be 30, and won’t be able to be a young husband and father with anyone. I do feel that if I don’t marry while still young, then maybe I’m not called to marry at all.

Of course I think of my girlfriend as more than a means to my own holiness. I want to love her! She is the most wonderful, caring, aware, beautiful person, with a lively Catholic faith that she is still developing and exploring, from a strong Catholic family, she’s dedicated to her job and loves learning, and enjoys so many of the same things I do. If anything, my biggest problem is seeing how I can help her! I have some head-knowledge of my faith, but she’s lived it with such devotion. I can enjoy spending time with her, but she’s the one with the job, the income, the car, etc. while I’m a poor graduate student. I don’t know what I have to offer, but I know she enjoys spending time with me, so I’ll keep things up for now.

Yes, I still have feelings for my ex, but once I know things are serious, as I hope I soon will, I will be able to give up those feelings for good. We can all avoid sinful affections, it’s just a case of focussing on something else. Love will come with time, if it’s right.
I’m sorry, I understand you are explaining the worry of getting older and starting marriage life ‘late’, but I think you’ve completely disregarded the concern I had for the outrageous statement you made. The statement saying that you wanted marriage, she doesn’t have many more chances, and she seems drawn to you.
If any of my friends said this about someone that they were courting I would set them straight and say that they are using the other person to get their image of what they want.

You say you want to love her and self-sacrifice for her, but so far all I see is what YOU want for YOU out of this relationship.

Think about if SHE wants to further a relationship with someone that thinks of her in this manner!

I’ve repeated over and over, it’s ok not to have a spark with someone right off the bat. Relationships do take time to mature.

BUT it doesn’t matter if you had the hugest spark with her at this very moment because of the way you think about her.

I’m cautioning you because you have to think your way down the road where marriage gets tough and sometimes nasty. What resources would you have to draw upon? The fact that you think you married someone that had all the requirements checked off, no one else wanted, and came along when you wanted to marry someone?
Do you think she’s dim? Do you think she’s not going to get that you don’t love her?
Do you think you are going to be able to fool her until you can muster the miracle of loving her?

Every single poster here needs to imagine you have a wonderful, giving, intelligent daughter who deserves respect and honesty.
Then imagine someone saying he wants to court your daughter but thinks: I feel called to marriage, and she might not have many more chances left, and she seems drawn to me…I can see the joy of self-sacrifice in this relationship, and not a lot else. I look at our future and see the cross, and that alone keeps me wanting to want to love her.

**
Then tell me your honest thoughts.

I’m not trying to demonize the OP. Life decisions are confusing and relationship issues can be complex. But this confusion isn’t going to get cleared away if he thinks this is the right way to think about a prospective life partner regardless of spark or no spark.

So, again DL82, please address the issue I pointed out. Any other explainations, descriptions, hopes and good intentions are null and void unless you address this seriously.

I also pray for the both of you, but especially for the lady that is the object of your intentions (or possible intentions). I doubt she’s a stupid woman, and I cringe at thought of when she realizes what you think of her or had thought of her at one time.

 
Sexual attraction and a ‘spark’ are not always the same thing. I get tingles from the man I love just watching him do the dishes, or holding his hand in a movie. Has nothing to do with sex.
Agreed. It’s a bit more of an… intellectual thing maybe? The sensation is akin to intellectual stimulation. Scientists would say it has something to do with natural counterparts of amphetamine. 😛
 
No, love doesn’t depend on feelings, but love isn’t devoid of feelings and feelings are a gift of God to be applied properly to each situation. Feelings are part of humanity and thus part of what God created us to be. We are not to artificially cut off our feelings from our bodies because that is an unnatural divide. Granted, we may have dissordered feelings because of our fallen nature, but with God’s love we change those feelings into what they are meant for.
:yup: :clapping: This goes for all kinds of love, not just married love.
I praise God for every time I’ve been blessed with the proper feelings at the proper measure for the proper situation. Falling in love with my husband… a beautiful, Godly, precious thing! This is not something I can accomplish myself, and it scares the pants off me to even think of the ramifications of trying to base a marriage off of how I feel at any given time.
 
What is the ‘spark’? Isn’t a relationship more than just the spark. It is respect, love and compasion for on another that keeps the love burning. You need to love the person not the feeling. A relationship will experience many emotions…sadness, grief, anger…etc. So the spark will cease at some point.

I say…you have a choice. A choice to be committed or not.

Good luck my friend. Ask all the questions about love and life now…before you ask her to marry you!
 
To the OP:
Just keep your faith in god and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you. You’ll know what to do next.
When I met my future husband, something said to me, “You’re going to to marry him.” He was completely suitable in every way and all my friends thought I was lucky.
I WAS lucky, but didn’t have any spark for the first couple of months, although he did make me laugh (which is mega-important for me).
But suddenly I fell deeply in love with him for reasons I still can’t explain. I sure had enough spark then!
I think “spark” is very, very important, but it may not be immediate.
BTW, we still have lots of spark!
 
It seems even from ‘Love and Responsibility’ there is a presumption that people will begin a loving relationship with some level of emotional desire for one another.

I’ve started spending time with someone who is a wonderful person, very caring, intelligent, and who I get on really well with. I’ve been trying to look at the situation purely from a self-giving ‘agape’ perspective, and think she likes spending time with me, and that I might have something to give her in a relationship. I don’t find her unattractive, there just isn’t a ‘spark’, but the more I pray for it, the more I find myself being given the desire to be with her.

Should I stop kidding myself, **or should I continue to pray for the desire to desire her?/**QUOTE]

Don’t pray for a “spark”, pray for integrity and discernment.

If she is “the one”, the “spark” will be there in it’s time.

Most folks mess things up by too much “sparking” too early in a relationship.

Be thankful, you are being given a gift.
 
I really like this thread. I’ve often thought, since breaking things off with my first girl, that I could find a girl I would just fall in love with. However, I have met many girls this summer with whom I have great connections, even religious connections.

Similar to the OP, the girl I am closest to, I’m not sure I feel a spark with, but I know we are compatible. Sometimes I wonder if I could be in a relationship with someone I am not physically attracted to…

I’ve been praying about this recently, and I’m not exactly getting immediate answers haha.

I guess my conclusion (so far) is to just ride it out. If I feel a close connection with someone, especially on a religious level, I will remain friends and hang out with that girl. As I spend more time with the girls I know, I can get a feeling for whether or not I could see myself with them.
 
YES, I do feel a spark is necessary…

NO, I did not read the rest of the thread.
 
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