Is abortion ever justified?

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Originally Posted by ryecroft
I’ve given you an example that does occur - you’ve given a hypothetical which could never occur - there is no answer to give because that would never happen that way and you know it.

The situation did happen, it is just that the person was a 4 month old pre born instead of a 14 year old homeless person. I cannot understand how someone can value the life of one child over another.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryecroft
God put me here to be a wife to my husband first and foremost

God put you here to love and to serve Him foremost, God put you here to get to heaven and to help others get to heaven.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryecroft
  • I would like to have children but I’m not going to die for a 4 month old fetus that wouldn’t survive on its own anyway. I’m sorry if what I say offends any of you but it’s what has occured and as I’ve been told by the priest and as I feel, I have no guilt about what we chose to do. I’m greatful that I’m still here with my husband and if we’re given the opportunity to try again, we will.
God Bless

That sounds so cold. I do not know how to respond.

You don’t have to like what I say and personally if you find it cold - that’s your opinion. The fact remains that had I attempted to continue the pregnancy, my doctor has told me there is a 99 percent chance that myself and the fetus would be dead - there is no way to save a four month old fetus outside of the womb - so we made the best decision - he explained to me that if he hadn’t gotten the fetus out when he did that I would have continued to hemorage - you call it the taking of a life - I call it the saving of my life. I don’t see what’s so very cold about that. For the kids I will be able to carry, I’m sure they won’t be unhappy I chose to live. People talk about the mother “killing” the fetus - what about the “fetus” or parasite (which if you look at the definition An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.) “killing” its host. I don’t see how you can think that I did anything wrong - had we not chosen the way we did neither of us would be here and that wouldn’t do anyone any good. I don’t like the situation but we deal with it the best way we know how - if you consider it “cold” that’s your opinion. We were trying to carry to term - but we could not deliver - and I wasn’t going to die to try to deliver a four month fetus that had no chance of surviving - not to mention the delivery would have killed me.
 
I am a little sad for you. As a mother who has seen her beautiful children at four months and younger, I know I would have done anything even given my life for those beautiful children. “Greater love than this no man hath, that a man lay down his life for his friends.” John 15:13.

I am also very sorry that a priest could ever tell someone that they can choose one life over another simply because one seems less important than the other.

I really don’t understand what some of you think would have been the good coming out of the fetus and myself dying. I’m glad I’m here to try again - you seem to think that the four month fetus were more important than I was - are you all telling me that in the same situation - being pregnant with a fetus that just hit four months that you would have said - go on with the pregnancy - I know I’ll hemmorage to death and the fetus will die as will I, but that’s o.k. - that’s what God has willed. I"m sorry, I won’t believe that until you’ve actually been in that situation.
 
ryecroft said:
I am a little sad for you. As a mother who has seen her beautiful children at four months and younger, I know I would have done anything even given my life for those beautiful children. “Greater love than this no man hath, that a man lay down his life for his friends.” John 15:13.

I am also very sorry that a priest could ever tell someone that they can choose one life over another simply because one seems less important than the other.

I really don’t understand what some of you think would have been the good coming out of the fetus and myself dying. I’m glad I’m here to try again - you seem to think that the four month fetus were more important than I was - are you all telling me that in the same situation - being pregnant with a fetus that just hit four months that you would have said - go on with the pregnancy - I know I’ll hemmorage to death and the fetus will die as will I, but that’s o.k. - that’s what God has willed. I"m sorry, I won’t believe that until you’ve actually been in that situation.
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I am sad that you keep referring to your child in such a cold way. This is your child and he or she is still a person. There are many many people who have chosen to go on with the pregnancy even with outrageous odds. Yes you might die with that pregnancy but you may live and die when the child is two years old. It is God’s call to make and not ours.

No one is saying, or at least I am not saying, that the baby is more important then you. What I do hear are people saying that the baby is equal to you in all ways, and that you are not more important then the baby.
 
Ryecroft, to read about what good could possibly come of a mother giving her life for her baby, read up on St. Gianna Molla.

www.saintgianna.org

Jesus also said that there was no greater love than to lay down one’s life for another.
 
ryecroft said:
… This is exactly why I included my last post- many seem to be saying, “I would only do this if there was a 100% chance the mother will die” - that’s just very rarely something a doctor would say. That’s why I say this has to be a choice between the parents and the doctor - I’m not happy I had to terminate a pregnancy - and I don’t feel guilty about it, but I’m certainly glad I’m still here to be with my family and try again. Many say to “just deliver” but in many cases, that isn’t possible due to hemmoraging - at least in my case. It’s really easy to say I’d never do that - but until you’re put into that position, I have a very hard time believing that. When I was told, along with my husband, I was so out of it from blood loss that there was very little time to think - just to act and I will not fault my doctor for these circumstances. Prior to having this occur, I was preety anti abortion -but now, I know there are cases where it is necessary if you want to live to try another day.
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I would never condemn you for your decision. If all decisions to abort a child were limited to such extreme circumstances, the number of abortions each year would number in the hundreds, and not the hundreds of thousands we now have, and this would not be a topic of conversation on this forum. It is still a tragedy for a child to die in such circumstances, but I believe God judges much less harshly in such cases; he knows our hearts.
 
Of course abortion can be justified. In fact, I think it is justified in nearly every if not every case.
 
Holly3278 said:
What do you mean? 🤷:confused:
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RW i dont mean to put words into your mouth so please correct me if im wrong but, i believe it meant that people may and probably do try to justify their abortions’i couldnt afford it’ ‘it was deformed’ ‘i would have died’.

so in theory the abortion was ‘justified’ at least in the mind of the one getting it, but in fact it was not justified, because it can never be justified. abortion is ALWAYS wrong.
 
aggiecatholic05 said:
RW i dont mean to put words into your mouth so please correct me if im wrong but, i believe it meant that people may and probably do try to justify their abortions’i couldnt afford it’ ‘it was deformed’ ‘i would have died’.

so in theory the abortion was ‘justified’ at least in the mind of the one getting it, but in fact it was not justified, because it can never be justified. abortion is ALWAYS wrong.
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Oh ok. Well that makes sense. Anyway, I want to apologize to everyone here for my pro-abortion views. I have since repented of them and have come back to the Catholic Church.
 
What do you mean?
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Let’s see here:
  1. You’re killing an innocent being who as just as much right to live as you do
  2. IMHO, if you get an abortion it means that you either lack faith in God or personal responsibility
  3. Abortion is condemned in the Bible
  4. What is the 5th Commandment?
  5. Abortion is against the natural law that God built into the universe (God said to Adam and Eve, “Be fruitful and multiply”)
  6. Abortion is wrong in all instances
Oh ok. Well that makes sense. Anyway, I want to apologize to everyone here for my pro-abortion views. I have since repented of them and have come back to the Catholic Church.
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Whoops! Sorry I missed this. Good for you!
 
Ryecroft, to read about what good could possibly come of a mother giving her life for her baby, read up on St. Gianna Molla.>> Wanner 47

I am familiar with St. Gianna and there are some huge differences in her situation and in mine - in hers she was able to stay alive long enough to deliver it - then later she died. In my situation, a continuation of an hour would have meant both the death of the fetus and my death. These are two completely different situations - there is no way that the fetus could have been kept alive inside of me.
I don’t believe that God is going to site me for wanting to live and not die for no reason.

God Bless
 
RW i dont mean to put words into your mouth so please correct me if im wrong but, i believe it meant that people may and probably do try to justify their abortions’i couldnt afford it’ ‘it was deformed’ ‘i would have died’.

so in theory the abortion was ‘justified’ at least in the mind of the one getting it, but in fact it was not justified, because it can never be justified. abortion is ALWAYS wrong. >>

I’m sorry, but you can actually say in a situation where both mother and fetus will die there is no reason to try to save one? In my case this is a “Justification” - it was a medical fact and this was a reason - not an excuse - like some of the other examples you gave. This reason is in a class by itself because you’re not talking about the life of the fetus only - you’re talking about the life of the mother - and the mother has just as much right to live as the fetus she carries.
justify:
  1. To demonstrate or prove to be just, right, or valid
  2. To declare free of blame; absolve.
  3. To free (a human) of the guilt and penalty attached to grievous sin. Used of God.
maybe the word justify is the correct term in my case - but to say “I couldn’t afford it” is an excuse.

I do agree that everything should be done to try to save both lives - but when it becomes obvious that neither will live, I truly see no point in having two deaths for no reason.

God L
 
ryecroft said:
I do agree that everything should be done to try to save both lives - but when it becomes obvious that neither will live, I truly see no point in having two deaths for no reason.
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Because you see no point in having two deaths for no reason (apparent to you) does not make it permissible for you to kill someone.
 
ryecroft said:
I’m sorry, but you can actually say in a situation where both mother and fetus will die there is no reason to try to save one?
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how do you know they will both die? because a doctor told you so? remember ALL things are possible with God. yeah you may have died, and yes your child might have died anyways, but only God knows our final hour, to chose that for another is to try and usurp His role in the universe.
 
ryecroft said:
… I’m sorry, but you can actually say in a situation where both mother and fetus will die there is no reason to try to save one? In my case this is a “Justification” - it was a medical fact and this was a reason - not an excuse - like some of the other examples you gave. This reason is in a class by itself because you’re not talking about the life of the fetus only - you’re talking about the life of the mother - and the mother has just as much right to live as the fetus she carries.
justify:
  1. To demonstrate or prove to be just, right, or valid
  2. To declare free of blame; absolve.
  3. To free (a human) of the guilt and penalty attached to grievous sin. Used of God.
maybe the word justify is the correct term in my case - but to say “I couldn’t afford it” is an excuse.

I do agree that everything should be done to try to save both lives - but when it becomes obvious that neither will live, I truly see no point in having two deaths for no reason.

God L
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Ryecroft, the question “Is abortion ever justified?” would have to be answered, “NO!” But in your situation, one that is very rare, you made what you believed was the most correct choice, or maybe it seemed to you, the least incorrect choice. There are other rare situations that a reasonable and moral person might choose abortion. But that doesn’t change the fact that abortion is always wrong. Like I said before, we should not condemn you for your choice is such an extreme situation, but we must always condemn abortion as unjustified. Have you ever read the book Sophie’s Choice? It is the story of a woman faced with two unbearable options. Both were wrong, but she was forced to choose.
 
how do you know they will both die? because a doctor told you so? remember ALL things are possible with God. yeah you may have died, and yes your child might have died anyways, but only God knows our final hour, to chose that for another is to try and usurp His role in the universe. >> aggie catholic

I’m going to give a response that I’ve given before - I did nothing wrong in a situation where had I waited another hour I would have been dead. I do suppose at the last second it could have been possible for God to send an angel down to save me or something - but to say that I usurped God because I chose to live (and yes the doctor did tell us we had almost waited too long to make this decision) - Perhaps I just don’t have as much faith as all of you because from your responses (most of them anyway) it seems like you all would have given your lives to see if the possibility of a miracle would have happened - (I will not count the males in this because they can’t be in the situation of having a pregnancy and risking their lives) - this is a situation like the man in the flood who God sends someone to tell him it will flood -get out of your house - the man says if there is any trouble God will save me - the waters then rise and a man in a boat comes by his window and says get in the boat or you’ll drowned - the man replies that he won’t because if he is close to death God will save him - then finally the waters are very high - the man is on his roof and a helicopter comes by to take him from his roof to safety - the man says - no leave me here - if I’m about to die God will interevene and save me - of course the man drowns and he gets to heaven - needless to say the man is angry that God didn’t save him - God says - what did you mean I didn’t try to save you - I sent the man to tell you to get out of the house - I sent someone in a boat and I even sent a man in a helicopter - I tried three times to save you - finally the man understands but it’s too late -

This little story is exactly what happened to me - doctors were sent to say that my blood pressure was up and that this could kill me - so I continued and went on bed rest - then the doctors saw that I was bleeding and they told me it could get much worse - so I allowed them to give me whatever drugs they thought would help and finally I began bleeding copiously and the Doctor(s) told me that I would die along with the fetus if we didn’t do something in the next ten minutes or so - and by that point I was getting loopy - we did hear from more than one doctor and there was no question what would happen if we continued the pregnancy - we would both die - so I had a choice let the fetus kill both of us or have the fetus taken out. As I said I didn’t like the choice but this was God’s Helicopter come to save me off the top of the roof. God gave us the tools to know when to say enough is enough. I know had I continued with the pregnancy that within the hour I would have been dead and trying to explain to God why I didn’t take the help He sent.
I’m glad most of you are so certain that you would rather die for a four month pregnancy than end it - that’s your perogative - I’ve had to fight to stay alive a great deal of my life and I’m not about to stop fighting because a pregnancy is causing me to hemmorage. If that’s cold to all of you than that’s your opinion. I didn’t like the situation but I will never feel guilty or ashamed of what I did - and honestly, I don’t believe all of you that say you would have continued the pregnancy regarless of bothyou and the fetus expiring - and just a side note delivery was not an option as the fetus was just 4 months old and this would have furthered the blood loss. The doctor did not lie to me or over state the situation- and I will never understand why the life of a fetus should be considered more important than the life of a mother - because that’s sure what seems to be happeneing.
 
ryecroft said:
I will never feel guilty or ashamed of what I did .
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i dont want to condemn you, im too busy having pity that you are so blind. i’ll pray for you.
ryecroft said:
I will never understand why the life of a fetus should be considered more important than the life of a mother - because that’s sure what seems to be happeneing.
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why do you feel your life was more important than your child’s life? your son/daughter had EQUAL not greater/lesser right to life as you. this is what the Church teaches. we dont have the right to kill.
 
why do you feel your life was more important than your child’s life? your son/daughter had EQUAL not greater/lesser right to life as you. this is what the Church teaches. we dont have the right to kill. >>aggie catholic

I am by no means blind - apparently you would rather have seen both of us die than just one of us - because your answer from what your saying is that the doctor, my husband and I should have just allowed both of us to die - no one at all gains by that - not the fetus that would have died anyway, not my husband by loosing me, not the doctor who was trying to save me and by no means would I have gained anything but a grave. Don’t even imply you feel pity for me - that’s not the point of what I’m saying - I’m trying to show all of you that sometimes there is no other choice - one of the pro life monachers is CHOOSE LIFE - I DID - and if the Church teachers that no one has the right to kill than certainly a fetus has no right to kill its mother. I didn’t see it as a greater or lesser life - but I did know that even if we had been able to deliver it wouldn’t have lived - had we proceeded to conitnue the pregnancy I would have been dead in an hour. Are you so blind that you don’t see what the only LIFE choice was? We made the only LIFE choice and I’m glad we did - as I said I didn’t like it but no one will ever make me feel guilty or ashamed of it. It’s not a sin to want to live.
 
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