Is abortion ever justified?

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benedictus2 said:
This is because you do not understand miracles. God works through science and medicine. After all He is its author. But every now and again, the laws of nature are suspended and a cure that baffles scientists and doctors happen. There have been atheist doctors who have converted to Catholicism because they were the attending doctors of these people who have been miraculously healed.

By miraculous we mean, a healing that cannot be attributed to medication and natural processes.
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Your right, I don;t understand miracles. The laws of nature have never, recorded to date, been suspended (Other explanations are often presentable or a simple what a strange natural event, lets find out what happened). If they had more people would believe in one god or another. There are many things in this world we do not yet understand it would be foolish to claim we do, however it would also be foolish to say that Allah is responsible for the thunder, or was that Thor and by thunder I mean the healing that occurred.

Ahhh of course god works through science and medicine, should have seen that one coming, pity the black death struck a bit to early.
 
Cinette said:
Abbadon I do not expect you to understand.

God works in many different ways. Sometimes his responses are not what one expects or imagines as happened in my life but the results are most satisfying. God is a God of surprises.

Why don’t you surprise God and pray for David and Sarah and their little boy Daniel?

:):):):)🙂
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Or if it truly interested me actually go about doing something to help. But it doesn’t, I’m more about ending hunger, which I hope to participate in helping shortly.

I hope Daniels life is not to painful and horrible nor that he suffers to much, how noble of his parents to make the sacrifice of letting him live a tortured existence.
 
Hi, Abbadon,

I see you are getting all mushy on us with your overt sentementality… 😃 Stiff upper lip old man… just don’t even think of Daniel.
Abbadon said:
Or if it truly interested me actually go about doing something to help. But it doesn’t, I’m more about ending hunger, which I hope to participate in helping shortly.

I hope Daniels life is not to painful and horrible nor that he suffers to much, how noble of his parents to make the sacrifice of letting him live a tortured existence.
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Now, about your plan for “ending hunger” - I am honestly interested in this. Just what do you have in mind? I, too, am interested in this goal. 👍

God bless,
 
Cinette said:
When I was a little girl I was so happy to be a little girl and now that I am a woman I continue to enjoy being a woman. I also love my gender - I think we have some wonderful attributes.

H O W E V E R, I confess that we are inclined to be more aggressive than men. Men have done some stupid things and have made a mess of the world but if we were in charge we would probably have started World War III long ago!:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
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Men and women are both equally in charge 🙂
 
tqualey said:
Hi, Abbadon,

I see you are getting all mushy on us with your overt sentementality… 😃 Stiff upper lip old man… just don’t even think of Daniel.

Now, about your plan for “ending hunger” - I am honestly interested in this. Just what do you have in mind? I, too, am interested in this goal. 👍

God bless,
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Creating crops that will grow virtually anywhere and produce a plentiful yield. That combined with education and empowerment of women to be more than broodmares of their tribe and it’s a win for humanity.

I pity people like Daniel, victims of nature (And if you believe in god/s, god/s). I’m curious, If at some point Daniel says “I just want to die, please let me die (kill me), I can’t stand to live through this any more”, he sobs and he cries. What would you think? What would you do?
 
tqualey said:
Hi, Ms Limerick,

Just go back and re-read your posts. Bitterness and scathing comments are the rule rather the exception. This is simply pointing out the obvious.

Your written responses embrace cynicism - there is no reluctance on your part to criticize the sentiments of others yet you recoil when this is addressed? Really now, Ms Limerick, thanks for identifying your gender - and, as you know, my comments were gender neutral - but, just look back at your posts, you’ve been ‘smacking’ around others for some time.

As I understand it, charity does not do violence to honesty.

And, considering your comment on having retreated to the ‘last house’ on the block - please - if you are not careful, you will soon find yourself homeless. My suggestion would be to treat others with the respect they are entitled to when responding to their posts. I think you can do that, so, please try. Thank you, in advance.

God bless
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Recoil? From confrontation? Limerick the Irish? Not on your life.

**By the way, can one overdose on charity?

Limerick**
 
bobzills said:
We all know that abortion is wrong. But consider the following scenario: A man is dying of kidney failure and must find a kidney somewhere. But he cannot, so his wife pays a mobster to kidnap and drug a young woman. The mobster knows an excellent surgeon who can be bought and the doctor surgically connects the woman to the man so that the sick man can now live since he can tap off of the kidney of the woman. The woman then wakes up from the surgery and finds herself surgically connected by tubes to this sick man who needs her kidney. It is possible for the woman to easily remove these tubes any time she wants and disconnect the life support of the man, which will then result in the instant death of the man to whom she has been connected.
Now does this woman have a moral obligation to keep this man alive ? Or is she morally justified in removing these tubes?
What does this have to do with abortion? Consider the case of a woman who has been forcibly raped? There are differences between the two cases, but are there not some similarities which may be relevant when considering the morality of the actions of removing the tubes versus the morality of an abortion in the case of violent rape?
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Bobzills,

What would be your answer if you were that man?
 
Hi, Abbadon,

I work as a Registered Nurse in a psychiatric hospital. I regularly encounter people who have either threatened or attempted suicide.
Abbadon said:
I pity people like Daniel, victims of nature (And if you believe in god/s, god/s). I’m curious, If at some point Daniel says “I just want to die, please let me die (kill me), I can’t stand to live through this any more”, he sobs and he cries. What would you think? What would you do?
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I would do what I regularly do, and this is provide appropriate help for depression. I would no more kill him then I would kill you (or Ms Limrick for that matter as I reach over and pull her chain…:D) Serioulsy, depression is not an uncommon problem amongst those that appear perfectly formed and physically fit :eek: It has been my experience that most people simply fail to see the options that are available to them - like the ‘crisis pregnancy’ issues that Planned Parenthood stalk and instead of offering multiple options and helpful counseling - they go for the $$$ and abort. There are also a lot of post-abortion (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) patients with major depression who have attempted suicide.

But, honestly, David is not the issue. The issue is us: you, me and everyone that tries to sit in life-and-death judgment on people who have genetic disabilities. What happens to our humanity as we snuff out theirs? Do you think the Nazis enhanced their humanity by murdering the mentally and physically defective? Look how they quickly spiraled down with their philosophy of death to those who they did not agree with in areas that they defined.

It just does not end with killing David - or, encouraging or allowing David to kill himself. Just where do you think you fit into this area? The easy - and mistaken - area is to try and exempt yourself from responsibility with something like, “Hey, he pulled the trigger, don’t blame me for getting him the gun - he asked me to!” Even the State would see you as an accessory to suicide! What a bummer, eh :eek: But, that is minimal. The action is in the section of your own soul that you killed by getting him the gun and encouraging his suicidal throughts and actions. In a way, you are just as dead!

God bless
 
"It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish
~Mother Theresa~
that is all i have to say and im seventeen:gopray2:
 
NO, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!!!

When the life of the mother or the baby are in danger, the doctor must boldly discern the best course of action to save any of those lives. This is different from choosing to kill a baby for convenience.
 
Purposely killing a human being is against the 5th Commandment - that’s that.
 
limerick said:
You forgot to put your :eek: or your :mad: or your :nope: in your post to dissuade readers from concluding that you actually believe this.

Limerick
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I most certainly believe it. And it really sickens me when people believe otherwise.
 
Cinette said:
That is what you think. Not so.

🙂
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Unfortunately it was like that before the 20th century. Women weren’t allowed in public life, etc. Thankfully we worked long and hard and now women actually are treated equally and have the same opportunities as men do ( in politics, working, etc.) I find it ironic when people say that sure, men and women are equal, but the role of women is that they are meant to be in the background and be a helper to men. Sounds like equality to me :rolleyes:
 
rosaryfan said:
first i’d like to state that abortions performed due to rape are .01%, that’s one-tenth of one percent. So it sort of drives me nuts when people use the rape scenario as a justification to keep abortion legal.

However, it is still the killing of an innocent human life. This life has been granted by god and it certainly is no fault of the baby’s that this rape has occurred. The difference betwen your scenario of the kidney patient and the raped woman is the kidney patient is a sick man lying in bed and needing to be kept alive by unnatural means. The baby in the womb is a fresh new life and is kept alive by the most natural means there is - his/her mother.

Rape is a horrible, violent, sad and unfortunate event, but in the teensy-weensy percentage of cases where it results in a pregnancy, i still do not see how the mother should have the right to extinguish this new life growing within her. What is wrong with placing the child up for adoption?
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‘write’ on!!!
 
bobzills said:
We all know that abortion is wrong. But consider the following scenario: A man is dying of kidney failure and must find a kidney somewhere. But he cannot, so his wife pays a mobster to kidnap and drug a young woman. The mobster knows an excellent surgeon who can be bought and the doctor surgically connects the woman to the man so that the sick man can now live since he can tap off of the kidney of the woman. The woman then wakes up from the surgery and finds herself surgically connected by tubes to this sick man who needs her kidney. It is possible for the woman to easily remove these tubes any time she wants and disconnect the life support of the man, which will then result in the instant death of the man to whom she has been connected.
Now does this woman have a moral obligation to keep this man alive ? Or is she morally justified in removing these tubes?
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YES!

What does this have to do with abortion? Consider the case of a woman who has been forcibly raped? There are differences between the two cases, but are there not some similarities which may be relevant when considering the morality of the actions of removing the tubes versus the morality of an abortion in the case of violent rape?

***The ONLY possible scenario would have to include two irreplaceable FACTS

One The OBJECTIVE can never be the killing / abortion of the baby. However circumstances could exist, albeit extremely rare, for this to be a “second cause” of the procedure.

Two The procedure would have to intend and have a very high possibility of saving another human life say the mothers.

The procedure could proceed if saving the mothers life is the Primary Objective, if there are no reasonable alternatives, and if there even a slight possibility that the infant might survive the procedure.***
 
Hi, Cecilatherese,

As a new member, let me welcome you to the list. 🙂

Don’t let Ms Limrick bother you … she comes out to bark and snap at those who profess that innocent life is precious and is not to be wasted.
ceciliatherese said:
I most certainly believe it. And it really sickens me when people believe otherwise.
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You are on the right road and do not be discouraged…👍

God bless
 
Hi, PJM,

I think Bobzills has been reading too many sci-fi novels! 😃
PJM said:
YES!

What does this have to do with abortion? Consider the case of a woman who has been forcibly raped? There are differences between the two cases, but are there not some similarities which may be relevant when considering the morality of the actions of removing the tubes versus the morality of an abortion in the case of violent rape?
Click to expand...
***The ONLY possible scenario would have to include two irreplaceable FACTS

One The OBJECTIVE can never be the killing / abortion of the baby. However circumstances could exist, albeit extremely rare, for this to be a “second cause” of the procedure.

Two The procedure would have to intend and have a very high possibility of saving another human life say the mothers.

The procedure could proceed if saving the mothers life is the Primary Objective, if there are no reasonable alternatives, and if there even a slight possibility that the infant might survive the procedure.***

I agree with what you have said. Let me add one other item: On can not do evil to try and bring about a good. Our focus is that two wrongs will never make a right and that God is really in charge (thank God! 👍 )

God bless,
 
ceciliatherese said:
Unfortunately it was like that before the 20th century. Women weren’t allowed in public life, etc. Thankfully we worked long and hard and now women actually are treated equally and have the same opportunities as men do ( in politics, working, etc.) I find it ironic when people say that sure, men and women are equal, but the role of women is that they are meant to be in the background and be a helper to men. Sounds like equality to me :rolleyes:
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You live in the USA where things may be different (on the surface) but you must remember that the days of slavery have not ended.

What about human traficking? What about women of Asia and Africa? You must think about that.

Cinette
 
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