Is abstinance our only option?

[newbie1234]

I know you where not asking me personally but I will answer YES it is a sin to use ABC for birth control purposes…

Are there biblical references that support abc as sinful?
If not, who deemed it a sin?

 

[LittleDeb]

Huh? What is your definition of high failure rate? 1%, 3%, 10%, etc. If used properly, contraception has a very low failure (under 5%) rate, depending upon the method. NFP, on the other hand, if not followed perfectly, can have a failure rate as high as 25%, If procedures are followed almost perfectly, the rate is about 3%. My source is Wikipedia which gets it’s stats from stated sources.

Please show me these failure rates of NFP. Please remember that coitus interuptus is not NFP so any source which includes it is incorrect. Withdrawl is a contraceptive method that uses no devices. In stats it belongs under contraception. The methods referenced here (Billings, Creighton, STM) are very reliable in planned conception, both avoiding and achieving.

Onan disobeyed Judah’s request to make an heir for his brother. So he was killed.
The disobedience was in not obeying the fathers command, not that he emmited on the ground.
If Onan refused to have sex with her, he probably would have been killed for disobedience also.

Please reread the link I sent you from ScriptureCatholic. It shows that this interpretation is faulty.

 

[Karin]

Are there biblical references that support abc as sinful?
If not, who deemed it a sin?

God…
from the beginning, the Lord commands us to be fruitful (“fertile”) and multiply.Gen 1:28, Gen 9:1,7 Gen 35:11

the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit; thus, we must glorify God in our bodies by being open to His will. (1 Cor. 6:19-20)

 

[newbie1234]

God…
from the beginning, the Lord commands us to be fruitful (“fertile”) and multiply.Gen 1:28, Gen 9:1,7 Gen 35:11

the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit; thus, we must glorify God in our bodies by being open to His will. (1 Cor. 6:19-20)

So everyone must be fruitful?
Was Paul commiting sin by staying single?

 

[LittleDeb]

I can find no verse in the bible with the word contraception in it.
So how could the bible address it as sin?

As I said, you don’t understand biblical idioms if you are looking for the modern word contraception. Search a good translation for the word pharmakia. Scripture Catholic shows it.

You will also not find the terms “stem cell research, IVF (invitro fertilization,) or cloning” in there either. For that matter you won’t find the word “Trinity.” Are you suggesting Scripture doesn’t address that either?

 

[Karin]

So everyone must be fruitful?
Was Paul commiting sin by staying single?

you are joking right?!
you asked me where it shows in the Bible that contraception is wrong…I should you…and now you wanna argue about it

 

[Karin]

As I said, you don’t understand biblical idioms if you are looking for the modern word contraception. Search a good translation for the word pharmakia. Scripture Catholic shows it.

You will also not find the terms “stem cell research, IVF (invitro fertilization,) or cloning” in there either. For that matter you won’t find the word “Trinity.” Are you suggesting Scripture doesn’t address that either?

 

[newbie1234]

Please show me these failure rates of NFP. Please remember that coitus interuptus is not NFP so any source which includes it is incorrect. Withdrawl is a contraceptive method that uses no devices. In stats it belongs under contraception. The methods referenced here (Billings, Creighton, STM) are very reliable in planned conception, both avoiding and achieving.

Please reread the link I sent you from ScriptureCatholic. It shows that this interpretation is faulty.

Onan was killed for breaking the law established deut25:5-10

 

[LittleDeb]

Onan was killed for breaking the law established deut25:5-10

You are mistaken. Let’s debate that where it belongs under, “Sacred Scripture.”

 

[Karin]

Onan was killed for breaking the law established deut25:5-10

Gen. 38:8-10 - Onan is killed by God for practicing contraception (in this case, withdrawal) and spilling his semen on the ground.
*

Juda, therefore said to Onan his son: Go in to thy brother’s wife and marry her, that thou mayst raise seed to thy brother. He knowing that the children should not be his, when he went in to his brother’s wife, spilled his seed upon the ground

, lest children should be born in his brother’s name. 10 And therefore the Lord slew him, because he did a detestable thing.*

 

[newbie1234]

you are joking right?!
you asked me where it shows in the Bible that contraception is wrong…I should you…and now you wanna argue about it

Oh sorry.
So since I am single and celibate I am sinning because I am not multiplying.
I don’t see how any of those verses addresses contraception.

 

[newbie1234]

Gen. 38:8-10 - Onan is killed by God for practicing contraception (in this case, withdrawal) and spilling his semen on the ground.
**

That is your interpretation in your catholic bible> My bible says he was killed for breaking deut25:5-10 law of marrying a widow and producing an heir.

 

[Karin]

Oh sorry.
So since I am single and celibate I am sinning because I am not multiplying.
I don’t see how any of those verses addresses contraception.

LOL!
You are too much…

 

[LittleDeb]

That is your interpretation in your catholic bible> My bible says he was killed for breaking deut25:5-10 law of marrying a widow.

Your Bible doesn’t say that. Your commentary IN your Bible says that.

 

[Karin]

That is your interpretation in your catholic bible> My bible says he was killed for breaking deut25:5-10 law of marrying a widow and producing an heir.

what Bible are you using?
that way we can all use the same one

 

[MilesXpisti]

That is your interpretation in your catholic bible> My bible says he was killed for breaking deut25:5-10 law of marrying a widow and producing an heir.

That’s utterly ridiculous. Did you even bother to read the excerpt you quote? The punishment for breaking Levirate law was public humiliation, not death (divinely-caused or otherwise):

Deuteronomy 25:7-10

7 But if he will not take his brother’s wife, who by law belongeth to him, the woman shall go to the gate of the city, and call upon the ancients, and say: My husband’s brother refuseth to raise up his brother’s name in Israel: and will not take me to wife. 8 And they shall cause him to be sent for forthwith, and shall ask him. If he answer: I will not take her to wife: 9 The woman shall come to him before the ancients, and shall take off his shoe from his foot, and spit in his face, and say: So shall it be done to the man that will not build up his brother’s house: 10 And his name shall be called in Israel, the house of the unshod.

 

[newbie1234]

Your Bible doesn’t say that. Your commentary IN your Bible says that.

The fact is that in deut25:5-10 a law was set up.
Looking at that law we see Onan broke it.
We can surmise that is why he was killed.
No law in deut or any other book was ever set up about spilling seed on the ground so how could we surmise that was the reason he was killed?

 

[LittleDeb]

The fact is that in deut25:5-10 a law was set up.
Looking at that law we see Onan broke it.
We can surmise that is why he was killed.
No law in deut or any other book was ever set up about spilling seed on the ground so how could we surmise that was the reason he was killed?

Right. And so by the law in Deut. she should have spit in his face. Your reference not mine.

The story of Onan is showing that contraception is a sin worthy of death.

 

[newbie1234]

LOL!
You are too much…

The point is there is no law that we have to multiply and furthermore I am not under the Law!

 

[LittleDeb]

Oh MilesXpisti beat me to it.

That’s utterly ridiculous. Did you even bother to read the excerpt you quote? The punishment for breaking Levirate law was public humiliation, not death (divinely-caused or otherwise):

 Quote:
                                              **Deuteronomy 25:7-10**

7 But if he will not take his brother’s wife, who by law belongeth to him, the woman shall go to the gate of the city, and call upon the ancients, and say: My husband’s brother refuseth to raise up his brother’s name in Israel: and will not take me to wife. 8 And they shall cause him to be sent for forthwith, and shall ask him. If he answer: I will not take her to wife: 9 The woman shall come to him before the ancients, and shall take off his shoe from his foot, and spit in his face, and say: So shall it be done to the man that will not build up his brother’s house: 10 And his name shall be called in Israel, the house of the unshod.