Is anyone in hell?

[user1234]

You need to mention that God grants perfect contrition to everyone but not everyone will accept it

 

[littlestsouls2]

Abbe F.X. Godts compiled some fairly weighty theological reasons for believing that many souls are in Hell. It is misleading to the extreme to assert that Hell might be empty.

Either way, what is most important is that we love.

“To pick up a pin for love can convert a soul.”

• St. Therese

 

[prodromos]

Of course Hell is empty. Christ has not yet returned for the final judgement so no one has yet been condemned to Hell. After the judgement will be another matter entirely, but until then there is no one there.

 

[po18guy]

“If no one is in hell by this date, what crime must one commit to go there?”

Fr. John Hardon, S.J.†
One of the greatest dogmatic theologians of the 20th century.

 

[Vico]

Of course Hell is empty. Christ has not yet returned for the final judgement so no one has yet been condemned to Hell. After the judgement will be another matter entirely, but until then there is no one there.

This is likely a difference between Orthodox and Catholic. The Catholic dogma is that there is a particular judgement immediately upon death.

 

[mikekle]

The other poster mentioning the fact of satan and the other fallen angels not being sent directly to hell is important I think, they were cast down to earth for a time, but hell was created specifically for them, so why create it when they wont be there for 1000s of our human years?

God could have just as easily sent them all to hell right then, but he didnt…?

Plus the bible says after a period of time, satan and the fallen angels will be let loose again, meaning they will somehow be able to leave hell at some point…if they can do this, it should apply to human souls too, we are spirits at this point anyway, why would they be given any special privileges?

 

[clem456]

I hope not.
God wills that “none of these be lost”, and so do I.

 

[prodromos]

This is likely a difference between Orthodox and Catholic. The Catholic dogma is that there is a particular judgement immediately upon death.

Orthodoxy teaches that we receive a foretaste of where we are headed. Souls that were moving towards God will experience joy until the final judgement, while souls that were moving away from God will experience suffering until the same.

 

[Usagi]

The other poster mentioning the fact of satan and the other fallen angels not being sent directly to hell is important I think, they were cast down to earth for a time, but hell was created specifically for them, so why create it when they wont be there for 1000s of our human years?

God could have just as easily sent them all to hell right then, but he didnt…?

Plus the bible says after a period of time, satan and the fallen angels will be let loose again, meaning they will somehow be able to leave hell at some point…if they can do this, it should apply to human souls too, we are spirits at this point anyway, why would they be given any special privileges?

“Mephistopheles: Why, this is hell, nor am I out of it.
Think’st thou that I, who saw the face of God
And tasted the eternal joys of heaven,
Am not tormented with ten thousand hells
In being deprived of everlasting bliss?”

― Christopher Marlowe, Dr. Faustus

It’s literature, not Scripture, but it accords with much theology on the topic.

Even if the demons are not, at this time, restricted to a particular place (and as they are bodiless, “place” is a strange idea to apply to them anyhow), they can be “in Hell” at all times if they are barred from the Beatific Vision or experience it only as pain.

While it seems likely there are places (or something analogous in the next life, if it doesn’t have physical space as we know it) in which resurrected bodies will eventually experience their rewards or torments, the chief condition of Heaven is being in God’s presence and the chief condition of Hell is not having that experience. Either of those could apply to a soul or spirit without it having to be in a particular location.

 

[PJM]

“far more”…
Citations of official Church teaching please…
(with all due respect to private revelations)

Matthew 7: 13-15
“[13] Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. [14] How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it! [15] Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.”

Luke 13: 23-24
" [23] And a certain man said to him: Lord, are they few that are saved? But he said to them: [24] Strive to enter by the narrow gate; for many, I say to you, shall seek to enter, and shall not be able."

God Bless you,

Patrick

 

[PJM]

There are two different theological positions being confused here.

Universalism – the idea that God will ultimately save everyone no matter what – is a heresy condemned by the Church. That is the one that you are criticizing, and not the one that a serious Catholic thinker like von Balthasar would ever put forward as a possibility.

The “we may rightly hope that Hell is empty” idea is a different thing. It is not contradicting Catholic doctrine by stating that even those who die in mortal sin would go to Hell. It is expressing the hope that, as we are told God wills, all people ultimately repent before death (even if no but they and God know it in this life) and we wind up finding that everyone is in Heaven in the end. It is something that all Christians should hope, even if for the reasons stated elsewhere in this thread it seems unlikely in practice.

You’re right BUT,

That is NOT what the OP is asking IMO:shrug:

 

[PJM]

There are two different theological positions being confused here.

Universalism – the idea that God will ultimately save everyone no matter what – is a heresy condemned by the Church. That is the one that you are criticizing, and not the one that a serious Catholic thinker like von Balthasar would ever put forward as a possibility.

The “we may rightly hope that Hell is empty” idea is a different thing. It is not contradicting Catholic doctrine by stating that even those who die in mortal sin would go to Hell. It is expressing the hope that, as we are told God wills, all people ultimately repent before death (even if no but they and God know it in this life) and we wind up finding that everyone is in Heaven in the end. It is something that all Christians should hope, even if for the reasons stated elsewhere in this thread it seems unlikely in practice.

**To know more about Hell, read St. Faustina’s Diary. #741

faustina-message.com/diary-saint-sister-faustina.htm

" Today I was lead by an Angel to the chasms of hell. It is a place of great torture; how awesomely large and extensive it is!
The kinds of tortures I saw:
the first torture that constitutes hell is the loss of God;
the second is perpetual remorse of conscience;
the third is that one’s condition will never change;
the fourth is the fire that will penetrate the souls without destroying it - a terrible suffering, since it is purely spiritual fire, lit by God’s anger;
the fifth torture is continual darkness and a terrible suffocating smell, and despite the darkness, the devils and the souls of the damned see each other and all the evil, both of others and their own;
the sixth torture is the horrible despair, hatred of God, vile words, curses and blasphemies
.
These are the tortures suffered by all the damned together, but that is not the end of the sufferings. There are special tortures destined for particular souls. These are the torments of the senses. Each soul undergoes terrible and indescribable sufferings, related to the manner in which it has sinned. There are caverns and pits of torture where one form of agony differs from another. I would have died at the very sight of these tortures if the omnipotence of God had not supported me. Let the sinner know that he will be tortured throughout eternity, in those senses which he made use of to sin.
I am writing this at the command of God, so that no soul may find an excuse by saying there is no hell, or that nobody has ever been there, and so no one can say what it is like.

I, Sister Faustina, by the order of God, have visited the abysses of hell so that I might tell souls about it and testify to its existence. . . . . " **

PRAY much!

 

[PJM]

If hell is empty then it’s impossible to be sent there and everything the church teaches about salvation is completely wrong and none of it ever mattered.

For Hell to BE EMPTY

God would have HAD TO Create humanity without

a Mind

A Intellect

& a FREEWILL

Because man DOES possess these “God-like” attributes; HELL HAS TO EXIST:thumbsup:

 

[PJM]

Rather, they hold to what is given in scripture and tradition. And there are many in heaven (from CCC 1023), which are:

the souls of all the saints . . . and other faithful who died after receiving Christ’s holy Baptism (provided they were not in need of purification when they died, . . . or, if they then did need or will need some purification, when they have been purified after death, . . .)

Our Catholic Catechism
#1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

 

[PJM]

If hell is empty then it’s impossible to be sent there and everything the church teaches about salvation is completely wrong and none of it ever mattered.

Catholic Catechism
#1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

 

[PJM]

No one knows. But if hell is empty, where is the reward for having tried one’s best to life a moral life?

Still, the Church teaches that no one knows if anyone has been sent to hell. No one knows what a person’s dying thoughts are. Maybe they truly repented.

Catechism of the RCC
**
#1056 Following the example of Christ, the Church warns the faithful of the “sad and lamentable reality of eternal death” (GCD 69), also called "hell."**

 

[PJM]

If its true that FAR more souls end up in hell than heaven or purgatory, that would essentially mean Satan/ hell will triumph over God and the church though…if Satan has managed to ‘steal away’ more souls than those that end up in Heaven, hell will hold the majority of people ever created.See what Im saying?

NO
Not al ALL;

It means that those who have heard, understood, OBEYED and lived what Jesus Taught are in comparison; “few in number” to those who by their LIFE-choices DENY God’s exisrence; as well quite POSSIBLY ???] thos who insist that God svae them THERE way; rather than what is actually taught in the Bible

**Mt 16:18-19
Mt 18:18
Jn 17:17-20
Jn 6:047-57
Jn 20:19-23
Mt 28:19-20 **

 

[PJM]

If its true that FAR more souls end up in hell than heaven or purgatory, that would essentially mean Satan/ hell will triumph over God and the church though…if Satan has managed to ‘steal away’ more souls than those that end up in Heaven, hell will hold the majority of people ever created.See what Im saying?

1036 The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny.** They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: “Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.”**

Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed, we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where “men will weep and gnash their teeth.”

#1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 1056 (147 bytes ) preview document matches
6 Following the example of Christ, the Church warns the faithful of the “sad and lamentable reality of eternal death” (GCD 69), also called “hell.”

Matthew 7: 13-15

[13]" Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. [14] How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it! [15] Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves".

 

[PJM]

And I’m not sure how the word “moral” fits into the question.

Morality concerns the evaluation of acts.
Whether hell is chock full or lonely is not a matter of moral evaluation. It’s simply a matter of speculation.

Permit to amplify my choice of the term" mortal impossibility"

From a moral-theology perspective:

Hell in an absolute sense HAS TO exist because:

God who can be described as “ALL GOOD THINGS PERFECTED” HAS TO BE for “fair” & "just. in order to be God.

An empty 'hell" would demand:

That no matter how one applies their GIFTS of s mind, intellect & a freewill; their will be no punishment for freely choosing Bad, Evil choices {have you ever read the Old Testament?… that is preposterous

So GOD would have to have granted humanity {who ALONE possess these attributes} for absolutely no reason AT ALL

And man then would be DENIED the use of the Divine-like gifts; equally impossible

God Bless you,

PJM

 

[PJM]

And every one of those sins is forgivable upon sincere repentance.

No one is contradicting Church teaching by suggesting that even the unrepentant would be saved. But it is logically possible – though unlikely – for every last human to have repented before death. Indeed, we are told in Scripture that God’s perfect will is that all be saved. We are not Calvinists believing that some humans are created just to be damned – and so it must be that each individual has (or had, or will have) a real chance to accept the working of God’s grace.

Naturally, one may believe (and historically, most Christians have) that in practice it is likely that Hell is heavily populated. But those who hold out hope (not certainty or demands, but hope) that God actually triumphs completely in the end are not heretics and are denying no Church teaching.

WHOA THERE:shrug:

No one is contradicting Church teaching by suggesting that even the unrepentant would be saved. But it is logically possible – though unlikely

HOW might such “LOGICALLY-be possible?”

God Bless you,

Patrick