Is baptism the new circumcism?

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But as far as One Baptism: when we see baptism as a means of grace through which the Spirit works, and when we understand that it is something that God does to us and for us, we can never be “rebaptized” or repeat it in any way.
 
blazerdave said:
But as far as One Baptism: when we see baptism as a means of grace through which the Spirit works, and when we understand that it is something that God does to us and for us, we can never be “rebaptized” or repeat it in any way.
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I see belief in Christ and His sacrifice for us is the means of grace through which the Holy Spirit works.
 
Dokimas said:
I see belief in Christ and His sacrifice for us is the means of grace through which the Holy Spirit works.
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He certainly does. I believe he has multiple means. I certainly repented of my sins and placed my hope in Christ’s atonement, and in my case it preceded my baptism by about seven years 🙂 But to follow up to my last post, if one does not see baptism as the Spirit working through a means of grace, our “one time only” position would not make as much sense.
 
Dokimas said:
. . . . .Did the early church think baptism took the place of circumcism? No, IMO.

In Acts 15 some of the Jews wanted the Gentile converts to be circumcized. The discussion was taken to the church leaders. NOT one place was it said that the new converts did not need to be circumcized because baptism was taking its place. Sure they were not to be circumcized but not for that reason.

In Act 16 Paul had Timothy circumcized. Why, if in fact baptism took the place of circumcism?
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Dokimas,

Very interesting thread. It has only been in recent months that I have come to understand that Baptism is the Circumcision made without hands, and that it is far more than symbolic. Baptism brings us into the New Covenant through Christ, just as circumcision brought people into the Old Covenant. Graces are imparted during Baptism, including the forgiveness of sins.

You claim that Baptism is only symbolic. John proclaimed a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Mark 1 (ESV):
3 the voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord,
make his paths straight,’"

4 John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. 5 And all the country of Judea and all Jerusalem were going out to him and were being baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins.

Luke 3:
2 during the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John the son of Zechariah in the wilderness. 3 And he went into all the region around the Jordan, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. 4 As it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet,
Code: 
"The voice of one crying in the wilderness: 'Prepare the way of the Lord,
make his paths straight.

Do you really claim that being buried and raised with Christ through Baptism imparts less than the Baptism of John–proclaimed for the repentance and forgiveness of sins?

Ephesians 2:
11Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility

Colossians 2:
8See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. 9For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. 11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.

The prophetic words of Isaiah tell us that the “uncircumcised and unclean” shall no more come into Jerusalem.

Isaiah 52:
The LORD’s Coming Salvation
1 Awake, awake,
put on your strength, O Zion;
put on your beautiful garments,
O Jerusalem, the holy city;
for there shall no more come into you
the uncircumcised and the unclean.
2 Shake yourself from the dust and arise;
be seated, O Jerusalem;
loose the bonds from your neck,
O captive daughter of Zion.
3For thus says the LORD: “You were sold for nothing, and you shall be redeemed without money.”

The circumcision without hands is the “putting off of the body of the flesh,” by “circumcision of Christ”----being “buried with Him in Baptism,” and “raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God.”

In Christ,
Anna
 
Anna_Scott said:
Dokimas,

Very interesting thread. It has only been in recent months that I have come to understand that Baptism is the Circumcision made without hands, and that it is far more than symbolic. Baptism brings us into the New Covenant through Christ, just as circumcision brought people into the Old Covenant. Graces are imparted during Baptism, including the forgiveness of sins.

You claim that Baptism is only symbolic. John proclaimed a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Mark 1 (ESV):
3 the voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord,
make his paths straight,’"

4 John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. 5 And all the country of Judea and all Jerusalem were going out to him and were being baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins.

Luke 3:
2 during the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John the son of Zechariah in the wilderness. 3 And he went into all the region around the Jordan, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. 4 As it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet,
Code: 
"The voice of one crying in the wilderness: 'Prepare the way of the Lord,
make his paths straight.

Do you really claim that being buried and raised with Christ through Baptism imparts less than the Baptism of John–proclaimed for the repentance and forgiveness of sins?

Ephesians 2:
11Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility

Colossians 2:
8See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. 9For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. 11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.

The prophetic words of Isaiah tell us that the “uncircumcised and unclean” shall no more come into Jerusalem.

Isaiah 52:
The LORD’s Coming Salvation
1 Awake, awake,
put on your strength, O Zion;
put on your beautiful garments,
O Jerusalem, the holy city;
for there shall no more come into you
the uncircumcised and the unclean.
2 Shake yourself from the dust and arise;
be seated, O Jerusalem;
loose the bonds from your neck,
O captive daughter of Zion.
3For thus says the LORD: “You were sold for nothing, and you shall be redeemed without money.”

The circumcision without hands is the “putting off of the body of the flesh,” by “circumcision of Christ”----being “buried with Him in Baptism,” and “raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God.”

In Christ,
Anna
Click to expand...
OT circumcism was NOT for forgiveness as the verses you quoted says about baptism. Also, circumcism of the heart is the real circumcism. Anyone can have HIS foreskin circumcised; not all give their heart to God to get it circumcised.
 
Anna_Scott said:
Dokimas,

Very interesting thread. It has only been in recent months that I have come to understand that Baptism is the Circumcision made without hands, and that it is far more than symbolic. Baptism brings us into the New Covenant through Christ, just as circumcision brought people into the Old Covenant. Graces are imparted during Baptism, including the forgiveness of sins.

You claim that Baptism is only symbolic. John proclaimed a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Mark 1 (ESV):
3 the voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord,
make his paths straight,’"

4 John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. 5 And all the country of Judea and all Jerusalem were going out to him and were being baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins.

Luke 3:
2 during the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John the son of Zechariah in the wilderness. 3 And he went into all the region around the Jordan, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. 4 As it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet,
Code: 
"The voice of one crying in the wilderness: 'Prepare the way of the Lord,
make his paths straight.

Do you really claim that being buried and raised with Christ through Baptism imparts less than the Baptism of John–proclaimed for the repentance and forgiveness of sins?

Ephesians 2:
11Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility

Colossians 2:
8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10 and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. 11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.

The prophetic words of Isaiah tell us that the “uncircumcised and unclean” shall no more come into Jerusalem.

Isaiah 52:
The LORD’s Coming Salvation
1 Awake, awake,
put on your strength, O Zion;
put on your beautiful garments,
O Jerusalem, the holy city;
for there shall no more come into you
the uncircumcised and the unclean.
2 Shake yourself from the dust and arise;
be seated, O Jerusalem;
loose the bonds from your neck,
O captive daughter of Zion.
3For thus says the LORD: “You were sold for nothing, and you shall be redeemed without money.”

The circumcision without hands is the “putting off of the body of the flesh,” by “circumcision of Christ”----being “buried with Him in Baptism,” and “raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God.”

In Christ,
Anna
Click to expand...
Dokimas said:
OT circumcism was NOT for forgiveness as the verses you quoted says about baptism. Also, circumcism of the heart is the real circumcism. Anyone can have HIS foreskin circumcised; not all give their heart to God to get it circumcised.
Click to expand...
Dokimas,

You missed the point of my post entirely.

Again, I will say, you claim that Baptism is only symbolic. John proclaimed a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Do you really claim that being buried and raised with Christ through Baptism imparts less than the Baptism of John–proclaimed for the repentance and forgiveness of sins?

Colossians 2:
8See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. 9For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. 11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.

Colossians states very clearly the circumcision without hands is the “putting off of the body of the flesh,” by “circumcision of Christ”----being “buried with Him in Baptism,” and “raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God.”

The truth is right in front of you, my friend.
Anna
 
Anna_Scott said:
Dokimas,

You missed the point of my post entirely.

Again, I will say, you claim that Baptism is only symbolic. John proclaimed a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Do you really claim that being buried and raised with Christ through Baptism imparts less than the Baptism of John–proclaimed for the repentance and forgiveness of sins?

Colossians 2:
8See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. 9For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. 11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Click to expand...
Colossians states very clearly the circumcision without hands is the “putting off of the body of the flesh,” by “circumcision of Christ”----being “buried with Him in Baptism,” and “raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God.”

The truth is right in front of you, my friend.
Anna

What did John the Baptist say the baptism of Jesus was going to be? John’s was water; Jesus’ was what?
 
Dokimas said:
What did John the Baptist say the baptism of Jesus was going to be? John’s was water; Jesus’ was what?
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You are answering my questions with questions–good way to go if you cannot support your claims.

Anna
 
Anna_Scott said:
You are answering my questions with questions–good way to go if you cannot support your claims.

Anna
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Jesus’ baptism was of the Holy Spirit, not of water. It’s the baptism of the Holy Spirit take makes us ‘born again’. That’s the ONE baptism. And as usual, these are my opinions which may or may not be God’s truth.
 
Anna_Scott said:
Dokimas,

You missed the point of my post entirely.

Again, I will say, you claim that Baptism is only symbolic. John proclaimed a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Do you really claim that being buried and raised with Christ through Baptism imparts less than the Baptism of John–proclaimed for the repentance and forgiveness of sins?

Colossians 2:
8See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. 9For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority. 11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Click to expand...
Colossians states very clearly the circumcision without hands is the “putting off of the body of the flesh,” by “circumcision of Christ”----being “buried with Him in Baptism,” and “raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God.”

The truth is right in front of you, my friend.
Anna
Dokimas said:
Jesus’ baptism was of the Holy Spirit, not of water. It’s the baptism of the Holy Spirit take makes us ‘born again’. That’s the ONE baptism. And as usual, these are my opinions which may or may not be God’s truth.
Click to expand...
I am not doubting the work of the Holy Spirit. I am not doubting the Baptism of Christ.

Again, Colossians states very clearly the circumcision without hands is the “putting off of the body of the flesh,” by “circumcision of Christ”----being “buried with Him in Baptism,” and “raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God.”

What do you think Colossians means? Please give me your interpretation of this passage.

And why did John proclaim baptism for the repentance and forgiveness of sins, if baptism is purely symbolic?

You keep avoiding my questions.
Anna
 
Anna_Scott said:
I am not doubting the work of the Holy Spirit. I am not doubting the Baptism of Christ.

Again, Colossians states very clearly the circumcision without hands is the “putting off of the body of the flesh,” by “circumcision of Christ”----being “buried with Him in Baptism,” and “raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God.”

What do you think Colossians means? Please give me your interpretation of this passage.

And why did John proclaim baptism for the repentance and forgiveness of sins, if baptism is purely symbolic?

You keep avoiding my questions.
Anna
Click to expand...

Baptism is a symbolic act of what we ask God to do when we repent … forgives us.​

Colosians tell us there is two things going on when God really. truly gets ahold of us: our hearts get the true circumcism (our hearts) and we identifies with why Jesus allowed Himself to be Crucified and why He was raised from the dead — our salvation and new life. We show our identification by being baptized.
 
Dokimas said:
Baptism covers the person that needs salvation over and over again?
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Through baptism we become children of God by grace. Once in God’s grace we need to remain in His grace through the good works that He gives us. Confessing our sins is a necessary work that we must do to remain in God’s grace. Confession and repentance is what we must do "over and over " again. Everytime we sin. Everytime we fall back. Baptism is a one -time event. Confession and repentance are not.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dokimas​

Jesus’ baptism was of the Holy Spirit, not of water. It’s the baptism of the Holy Spirit take makes us ‘born again’. That’s the ONE baptism. And as usual, these are my opinions which may or may not be God’s truth.
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Being Baptised with water in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is when we are Justifiyed and what Anna said it right…buried with Him in Baptism," and “raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God.”

Doki, thank you for always confirming that what you write is you own opinion,;):)Peace, Carlan
 
Carlan said:
Doki, thank you for always confirming that what you write is you own opinion,;):)Peace, Carlan
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I try to, first be honest with myself, and then honest with you (collectively). I think it’s dangerous to think anyone (including any church) is 100% correct. There is only ONE perfectly correct Being.
 
Dokimas said:
I try to, first be honest with myself, and then honest with you (collectively). I think it’s dangerous to think anyone (including any church) is 100% correct. There is only ONE perfectly correct Being.
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The Church is the “pillar and foundation of the truth”
THe “Truth” is always 100% correct because the Truth comes from God.
 
Dokimas said:

Baptism is a symbolic act of what we ask God to do when we repent … forgives us.​

Colosians tell us there is two things going on when God really. truly gets ahold of us: our hearts get the true circumcism (our hearts) and we identifies with why Jesus allowed Himself to be Crucified and why He was raised from the dead — our salvation and new life. We show our identification by being baptized.
Click to expand...
Dokimas,

Sometimes indoctrination keeps us from seeing the reality so clearly presented in Holy Scripture. If you are taught that Baptism is only symbolic, you view Scripture through the lens of that bias. I know, because I have experienced this myself.

Please look at Colossians again. Ignore your indoctrination for a moment and pray for truth.

Colossians states very clearly: the circumcision without hands is the “putting off of the body of the flesh,” by “circumcision of Christ”----being “buried with Him in Baptism,” and “raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God.”

John did not even proclaim a symbolic baptism. He proclaimed baptism for the repentance and forgiveness of sins. How can you believe baptism in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit would be less than the baptism of John?

Anna
 
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