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feetxxxl
Guest
i like your questions…will get back to you.
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StevenFrancis
Guest
Peace be with you all.
Love God.
Love your neighbor as yourself.
If you are filled with the desire to act out in a disordered way, ask God for help to resist.
If you are overcome by your sin and succumb, then go to confession and with a faithful heart, ask for forgiveness. Try to avoid the sin in the future. If you fail again, Do this all over again.
Don’t hate others
Don’t judge others
but also don’t be mislead or hypnotized by rationalizations that immoral behavior is okay, just because a lot of people say it is.
Speak the truth, don’t be swayed, but also be kind, charitable and forgiving.
All of these things are possible.
The are lofty goals, but the are the goals we were left. To attempt to be Christ to each other, as his mystical body.
Love and forgive, but do not condone.
This argument and all it’s inherent issues could have been over a long time ago with the observance of these few simple rules from God.
Yours in Christ,
Steven
Love God.
Love your neighbor as yourself.
If you are filled with the desire to act out in a disordered way, ask God for help to resist.
If you are overcome by your sin and succumb, then go to confession and with a faithful heart, ask for forgiveness. Try to avoid the sin in the future. If you fail again, Do this all over again.
Don’t hate others
Don’t judge others
but also don’t be mislead or hypnotized by rationalizations that immoral behavior is okay, just because a lot of people say it is.
Speak the truth, don’t be swayed, but also be kind, charitable and forgiving.
All of these things are possible.
The are lofty goals, but the are the goals we were left. To attempt to be Christ to each other, as his mystical body.
Love and forgive, but do not condone.
This argument and all it’s inherent issues could have been over a long time ago with the observance of these few simple rules from God.
Yours in Christ,
Steven
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feetxxxl
Guest
was the church justified for everyone(heretics and martyrs) they burned at the stake, when did the spirit of christ deem it unacceptable. what is the difference betwen a stoning and being burned at the stake? jesus came to fulfill the law, honored some of the jewish traditions, so does that mean he attended a stoning. if not why not?Those feelings were from God.
But they were misinterpreted by the “feeler” as a need to “have sex with” a person as opposed to “being repectfully intimate and loving” with them.
The fact that both parties may have been amenable to “having sex” is irrelevant as to the acts “correctness”.
You can use scripture as like, if your not Catholic, as you wish, but your usage of it means nothing to a Catholic to convince them of anything, unless the Magisterium agrees with your interpretation.
This is just once-saved-always-saved with a new face, used to justify same-sex sexual acts.
You “profess” Jesus, and you “know” you are saved, therefore nothing you do, which you “feel” is unsinful while “believing in Jesus”, is sinful.
Some could call that simply “self justification”.
You may martyr yourself to affirm your beliefs, but even abject heretics can, and have, been martyred for their faith in their heretical beliefs.
Does that make them righteous? No.
We actually agree that it’s a good thing to submit to the rightful authority upon which our beliefs rest, but we disagree as to what that authority is.
You (your conscience as informed by whatever it is that you inform it with) are your authority, and the Church’s Magisterium is my authority.
We can agree on that, and agree to disagree on those things that derive from that agreement.
Love 'ya, buckeroo.
Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai iaoe. Aloha nui.
on another subject what does the magisterium say about testing (thess) and fellowship (1john1)
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feetxxxl
Guest
or you could say trust love and abide in the fruit of the spirit…love, joy, kindness…(galations 5)
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feetxxxl
Guest
Do you believe it is “fellowship” to confirm someone in his sin?
the act of fellowship, sharing our relationship with christ with each other,sharing our hearts with each other, whatever is seen is seen together in the the unity of oneness of christ. . what i hear from you is your intention. what i dont hear is your interest in the intention of the holy spirit. im sure we would agree they are not one in the same?
when was the last time you felt convicted by the holy spirit to convnce someone of their sin?..fellowship is seeing no sin, only what god has created. …you know the scripture that god is so holy he cannot look upon sin. maybe that’s because he looks thru it to what he has created and that is what he speaks to. why shouldnt the same hold true for believers?
do you know how many scriptures say dont judge. and that mercy is greater than judgement?micah 6:8…we’re suppose to love mercy
“Ah. cultural influence, our own mindset, what I believe in my heart . . .IOW: there is no such thing as objective truth outside my own heart. Sorry: that won’t fly.”
i dont understand …we both agree that at the final judgement our hearts are judged.
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KittyGabriel
Guest
Ooo, this seems like a lovely controversial discussion. Well, in my opinion I honestly don’t care whether people are homosexual or not, and I really don’t care whether or not they choose to acknowledge God in any way. It’s all their choice. I would like to say that personally I think it’s ok for them to get married. You shouldn’t forbid people to be united with the person that they love. If people are opposed to that, I really don’t care because sadly, sooner or later, same sex marriages will most likely become more and more frequent. Don’t use the excuse that homosexuals can not take part in the fruits of the holy spirit because I personally know many homosexuals that are more loving, kind, gentle, and peacful than any heterosexual I know. They also believe in God, and they pray that he accepts them for who they are, because they aren’t going to try to be something they are not. That is what other opposers should do as well. Just accept them and move on. Stop trying to get involved because you are not going to stop anything from happening, and you certainly aren’t going to get rid of homosexuals, so what are you trying to prove by all the protesting. The only thing I see is that you are discriminating and causing pain to others in the name of God. How ironic.
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feetxxxl
Guest
possibly is there be a similarity between what they are doing to homosexuals and what the pharisees did to christ. all in the name of sin. the pharisees refused to see christ as the messiah. they refuse to see homosexuality( regardless of its origin )as something deemed acceptable to god…
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feetxxxl
Guest
paul talks about it in 2cor7:.10Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.
the world would sell guilt and regret and believe it was good. both are burdens that have no life.
here again free will is involved. we have the capacity as with everything else to stay disconnected from what our soul is crying out. “da nile aint just a river in eqypt.”
the thing that is interesting about humans the sorrow still comes out but it comes out in a dysfunctional behavior.
someone said… if you arent dealing with your issues…then believe me everybody else is.
a lot of believers think castigating their life before christ as a good thing…it isnt.
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Joseph_Michael
Guest
The New American Bible (NAB) is the official translation of the Catholic Church, USA. It reads:
1 Cor. 6 v 9 Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites *
footnote* The Greek word translated as boy prostitutes may refer to catamites, i.e., boys or young men who were kept for purposes of prostitution, a practice not uncommon in the Greco-Roman world. In Greek mythology this was the function of Ganymede, the “cupbearer of the gods,” whose Latin name was Catamitus. The term translated Sodomites refers to adult males who indulged in homosexual practices with such boys. See similar condemnations of such practices in Romans 1:26-27; 1 Tim 1:10.
Nihil Obstat
This doesn’t seem to refer to gay relationships or gay sexuality in the 21st century. I do agree with the Church, that sexual relationships outside of a sacramental marriage between one man and one woman are sinful. This includes masturbation.
I am a chaste gay man and i attend Mass every day to help me stay that way. I am in a relationship in which there is NO sex. We have been together for 28+ years. We sleep in separate rooms. We support one another financially and emotionally. I just wish i could get him to come to Church with me. He could use your prayers to come back to the Church. His name is John if you want to say a prayer for him.
This is what Jesus had to say about it.
**Mark 10 verses 6 - 9
But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.
For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother (and be joined to his wife),
and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh.
Therefore what God has joined together, no human being must separate." **
I thank you good Catholics who support me in my struggle. I just wish some of the men in my parish would wear long pants, shoes and looser fitting shirts to Mass. It can be distracting to me to be attracted to some of the guys during Mass. Some of the women don’t dress very modestly either, but that doesn’t “bother” me personally, but i wonder if it bothers some of the straight men. I wish our Pastor would address this issue. But, this is a completely different topic.
This is my first post ever. I signed up to speak out, that there other homosexual men out here who do follow what the Church teaches. I am at peace with what the Church teaches.
Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ,
Joseph
1 Cor. 6 v 9 Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites *
footnote* The Greek word translated as boy prostitutes may refer to catamites, i.e., boys or young men who were kept for purposes of prostitution, a practice not uncommon in the Greco-Roman world. In Greek mythology this was the function of Ganymede, the “cupbearer of the gods,” whose Latin name was Catamitus. The term translated Sodomites refers to adult males who indulged in homosexual practices with such boys. See similar condemnations of such practices in Romans 1:26-27; 1 Tim 1:10.
Nihil Obstat
Imprimatur
1986
This doesn’t seem to refer to gay relationships or gay sexuality in the 21st century. I do agree with the Church, that sexual relationships outside of a sacramental marriage between one man and one woman are sinful. This includes masturbation.I am a chaste gay man and i attend Mass every day to help me stay that way. I am in a relationship in which there is NO sex. We have been together for 28+ years. We sleep in separate rooms. We support one another financially and emotionally. I just wish i could get him to come to Church with me. He could use your prayers to come back to the Church. His name is John if you want to say a prayer for him.
This is what Jesus had to say about it.
**Mark 10 verses 6 - 9
But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.
For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother (and be joined to his wife),
and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh.
Therefore what God has joined together, no human being must separate." **
I thank you good Catholics who support me in my struggle. I just wish some of the men in my parish would wear long pants, shoes and looser fitting shirts to Mass. It can be distracting to me to be attracted to some of the guys during Mass. Some of the women don’t dress very modestly either, but that doesn’t “bother” me personally, but i wonder if it bothers some of the straight men. I wish our Pastor would address this issue. But, this is a completely different topic.
This is my first post ever. I signed up to speak out, that there other homosexual men out here who do follow what the Church teaches. I am at peace with what the Church teaches.
Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ,
Joseph
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Joseph_Michael
Guest
I meant to say “There ARE other homosexual men out here who do follow what the Church teaches.”
Sorry about that.
Joseph
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feetxxxl
Guest
apart from the issue of sin, if you were to indulge in sexual intimacy with your pardner how do think it would effect your relationship?
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Joseph_Michael
Guest
I don’t know how it would affect my relationship with my partner, but it would affect my relationship with God in a negative way. God is more important than any person in my life.
Joseph
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mercygate
Guest
I apologize for anything I have said that may have pushed you away from the desire to pursue a chaste and continent life.
Mercy is greater than judgment. But mercy and Truth are one.
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feetxxxl
Guest
have you considered that effect it would have on your relationship, is the real essence of sin? didnt god create the law for man, not man for the law…the same as with the sabbath.
what do believe is the essence of the spirit sin in homosexuals expressing their mutual love, attraction, and respect for each other thru sexual intimacy?
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richardwy
Guest
“Homosexuality,” “essence”, and “oreintation” cannot/do not “embrace.”
The same is true if you substitute the noun “humans,” because humans cannot/do not “embrace” the fruit of the spirit.
When we predicate logically rather than illogically (make sure the noun can, does, and will perform a verb’s action), we then actually discuss a matter at hand.
Precise literal language is best when talking about important things. Makes it so much easier to see things for what they are.
As far as humans demonstrating love, behaving lovingly, or flat-out loving (just one fruit of the spirit), either we do or we do not.
I cannot be said to “love” another if my actions and/or motives do not match Saint Paul’s description in 1 Cor 13.
Mine do not from time to time.
Either we want to worship God or we want to worship man or some idol we’ve created. I’m thinking of Romans 1.
From my view in the cheap seats, the Church’s teaching is clear on homosexuality.
When we respond to all this as if it really does exist as the Church says it exists, the folderol ceases. Or at least much of it.
Most of what I’ve done, had done to me, witnessed 1st hand, and read about or see 2nd hand that others use to evidence “love” is merely self-love. Not all, but most.
It goes something like this, “love me so I can feel good.” Let me love you so I can feel good." Which runs afoul of Commandments, Beatitudes, and Church teachings.
Love is about self-sacrifice and the destruction of self-centeredness. All the fruit is. And it’s not self-aborbed as to if one be “fruitful” spiritually either.
Like the Good Samaritan, Matthew 25 and other examples.
Not only do we get “it” backwards. We’re in the dark as to what “it” is. Saint Paul in Romans, right out of the chute, tells us why. The Psalmists often tell us why. God flat out tells us why in some of the Books of Moses.
Thankfully, the Church tells us the truth. Saints demonstrate and teach. The Holy Spirit leads us away from our selfishness to selflessness: true devotion to God and love of our neighbour.
Sloppy writing, thinking, and concluding make it easier for lies to take on the hue of truth because folks are pitching “what can be sold and what is popular” rather than what is true.
I’m pretty gassed about beginning a study of St. Thomas Aquinas.
See, figurative languge supports well and amongst a friendly audience the unimportant (in the big scheme of things: that the prospect of studying the Divine Doctor thrills little 'ole me.)
For important issues, literal language suits better.
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mercygate
Guest
Beautifully articulated. I predict that the audience you are addressing will choose not to understand a single word of it.
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Dale_M
Guest
I gave up on this thread a long time ago - it seemed to be just spinning in circles. (My apologies to all if progress has been made).
What caused me to click on the thread just now, I don’t know. But since you are new and seem to be nice, I can’t resist replying.
hmmm… would you care if they were starving? How about refugees from war or from a natural disaster? It is a good thing to be concerned about our fellow humans. This includes warning them of potential dangers. Whether it is a minefield or a hot skillet, it is good for us to warn others.
Indeed - they are ones who have to live with their decisions. This is why it is necessary to warn of dangers but not to pass judgement on them for their choices. We do not know their lives and the pressures they face.
I think you are aware of the Church’s stand on this matter.
Ah, but abortion, terrorism and presidential campaigning are also on the increase. Just because an activity is increasingly common doesn’t mean that it is right.
I agree, but would change the word “any” to the word “many”.
Which is probably the wrong attitude. Humans have plenty of impulses and desires which need containing, from anger to over-eating to watching American Idol. (j/k) The question is one of which natural desires shouldn’t be indulged.
You’ve heard the story about the starfish?
Yes, it is sad when painful issues need discussing. The world sees enough pain, it isn’t easy to add to the suffering. But sometimes it really is necessary, and will prevent even greater suffering.
I don’t expect to change your mind with my reply. I just wanted to let you know how Catholics see the matter.
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goofyjim
Guest
I would love to get together and pray about this situation with your roommate. I also get disgusted with both the immodest dress of men and women. It doesn’t mean you have to dress wealthy but modesty to me means covering up. I am also a homosexual male who follows Church teaching. I often pray that it would change but I know it won’t happen.
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AndyF
Guest
Because while a person is in a state of sin where he severed himself from his true end, the good he produces has no value.
Only through sincere true repentance and the receipt of absolution are his goods restored.
AndyF
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goofyjim
Guest
I repeat we will never know the definitive cause of homosexual orientation. We can only support in love those who have it to live a celibate lifestyle.
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