Is being anti homosexual anti christian?

[feetxxxl]

how can homosexuality be a sin when the essence of that orientation can embrace the fruit of the spirit …love, joy, peace,goodness,kindness, self-control,patience,gentleness,and faithfulness. homosexuals have not been found lacking in any sector of society compared to heterosexuals including the military or the institution of marriage.

how can same sex attraction being equal in spirit to that heterosexual attraction be deemed a sin?

john 4 says that the true worshippers will worship the father in spirit and in truth. if the spirit of homosexual couplimg mimics the the spirit of heterosexal coupling, embracing all the things of the fruit of the spirit how can it be deemed less.

surely there were prohibitions given in leviticus that of themselves were not sins…eating anything that did not have cloved hoof.

and the people of sodom were guilty of attempted gang rape of someone who had been received in a household as a guest.

no where in secular society or even in the church have homosexuals been identified as the shame based lusters described in romans.

and in the epistles is the original translation(king james)“nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind” an inditement against homosexuality, when we are also aware there is abuse with heterosexual pardners given the spirit of their coupling.

lastly…1john1 gives an example of how we are to have valid witness(1) we hear (2)we touch(physically emotionally and spiritually)(3)we see(with our heats)(4)and our t witness is done in fellowship with one another in walking in the light of christ.

anything less is not a true witness and invites the possibility of false witness.

 

[Cari]

I’ll leave the citation of NT prohibitions of the homosexual act to people more versed in Biblical memorization than I, but I will address what the TITLE of your post (though, strangely enough, not the content) asks:

Being anti-homosexual IS anti-Christian. As Christians, we are called to love our neighbor as ourselves. We are called to remember that our Lord came for the sinners, not the righteous, and that we ALL are sinners. Being “anti” another human being is the antithesis of Christ’s message.

That said, being anti-sin is NOT anti-Christian. Homosexual acts are sinful. Are they the only sinful behavior humans engage in? Certainly not. Are there plenty of heterosexual acts that are sinful that we should also avoid? Absolutely. Thanks to our fallen nature, the varieties of sinful acts available to us are legion.

Finally, your post seems to argue a false premise- it seems to indicate that those who view homosexual acts as sinful deny the presence of grace in homosexuals. This is simply false. Many Christians are aware and sympathetic to the cross homosexual individuals have to bear. All of us? No- but see? We all sin.

 

[puzzleannie]

how can homosexuality be a sin when the essence of that orientation can embrace the fruit of the spirit …love, joy, peace,goodness,kindness, self-control,patience,gentleness,and faithfulness. homosexuals have not been found lacking in any sector of society compared to heterosexuals including the military or the institution of marriage.

how can same sex attraction being equal in spirit to that heterosexual attraction be deemed a sin?

john 4 says that the true worshippers will worship the father in spirit and in truth. if the spirit of homosexual couplimg mimics the the spirit of heterosexal coupling, embracing all the things of the fruit of the .

homosexual actions deny the Holy Spirit and therefore cannot partake in the fruits of the Holy Spirit because they deny the Holy Spirit as Lord and Giver of Life. Homosexual acts are the antithesis of Life, and of normal heterosexual expression which is the means by which the Creator intended his creation to partake in the procreation of new life. Homosexual acts deny the purpose of God’s creation, and his plan. In no way is homosexual expression equal in spirit to heterosexual love, because the first rejects God and the second cooperates with God. Homosexual coupling does not “mimic” heterosexual coupling rather it is a perverse and unnatural degredation of the normal act, that is, against the nature of the organism engaging in the act.

What do you mean by being “anti-homosexual?” If you are not against homosexual actions, you are accepting as normal that which is not normal. Biologically the human race is clearly designed and intended to procreate by normal heterosexual activity, and is not designed for homosexual acts, which are in fact damaging to the organism. If you mean is “being against persons who define themselves as homosexual” wrong, yes it is wrong to be “against” any person who is created in the image and likeness of God. It is however an act of unlove and uncharity to condone or cooperate with an individual who persists in acting in ways that damage himself and others. If you are not against homosexual activity you are denying the full human potential of that individual, reducing him to nothing more than his sexual orientation, denying his full human dignity. That is truly unchristian.

Persons who contend with homosexual attraction or who define themselves as homosexuals are of course capable of the fullness of grace, insofor as they cooperate with God’s grace. Like every human being, to the extent that they embrace sin, that which denies their true nature as beings created in God’s image, they separate themselves from that grace. In this they are no more disordered than are the rest of human creatures, marred by original sin, who cling to their own sins and failings, whatever they may be. Yes homosexuality is a disorder. Yes we are all disordered because of original sin. Yes we are all given all the grace we need to overcome that disorder and return to union with God. Yes we reject that possibility when we cling to our sins.

 

[goofyjim]

I agree that it is wrong to condone homosexual acts but too often there are those who go the extreme of condemning even same gender attraction. I know. I’ve witnessed it here on these forums. I like listening to Rush’s song Nobody’s Hero during times like these.

 

[puzzleannie]

I don’t know that words like anti and condemned are helpful or accurate. Yes, same sex attraction is a disorder and those who experience it know full well they have to contend with. Anyone who helps such a person recognize and deal with the disorder is not being condemnatory.

I have a disorder, whose causes are still poorly understood and hotly debated, could be inherited, could be aquired. it is called diabetes. Part of that disorder involves a desire for foods that are bad for me, a desire that, because of the nature of the disorder, are sometimes overwhelming, beyond craving, to actual addiction. No one, doctors, therapists et. al. who help me contend with this part of my disorder is condemning me, nor are they “condemning” my illness. They are helping to educate me about the disorder, and helping me to cope, through many means, with its effects, including disordered desires. These cravings are for something that is good or neutral in itself, carbohydrate based foods, but something which for me is a danderous substance. When these people point me to activities and choices which help me deal with the disorder they are being helpful, loving, and caring. They are not condemning.

 

[goofyjim]

I don’t know that words like anti and condemned are helpful or accurate. Yes, same sex attraction is a disorder and those who experience it know full well they have to contend with. Anyone who helps such a person recognize and deal with the disorder is not being condemnatory.

I have a disorder, whose causes are still poorly understood and hotly debated, could be inherited, could be aquired. it is called diabetes. Part of that disorder involves a desire for foods that are bad for me, a desire that, because of the nature of the disorder, are sometimes overwhelming, beyond craving, to actual addiction. No one, doctors, therapists et. al. who help me contend with this part of my disorder is condemning me, nor are they “condemning” my illness. They are helping to educate me about the disorder, and helping me to cope, through many means, with its effects, including disordered desires. These cravings are for something that is good or neutral in itself, carbohydrate based foods, but something which for me is a danderous substance. When these people point me to activities and choices which help me deal with the disorder they are being helpful, loving, and caring. They are not condemning.

But there is no need for one who experiences same gender attraction to be in therapy unless there are other issues to be dealt with.

 

[puzzleannie]

But there is no need for one who experiences same gender attraction to be in therapy unless there are other issues to be dealt with.

I never suggested they need to be in therapy, I suggested by analogy that anyone who receives help of any kind in dealing with any kind of a challenge is not being condemned by those who are helping him, and I suggested we leave off using words that do not add anything of value to the discussion. There is no need to quote an entire post when giving a reply to part of it.

 

[goofyjim]

Yet as I have said there have been members of these forums who suggested those who do nothing to change their same gender attraction are not being Christians. This is not helping them, this is condemning them for something that may have been a prenatal disposition and cannot be changed. There have been others who decided to be an expert by saying if they didn’t change through therapy they weren’t using the right therapy. Let’s leave those with same gender attraction the way they are instead of forcing change down their throats.

 

[feetxxxl]

the problem with your approach is it insures that the historical persecution of homosexuals will continue. saying we are all sinners, doesn’t deal with bias ,mindset and cultural conditioning that fosters that persecution. one says “i believe” and believes that is the end of it …not acknowledging that “i believe” has to do with i ,me, and mine…is about embracing of the concept of i.

what is the connection to one’s concept of “i” and the thing that brings oneness… our shared relationship with christ…thru which the spirit gives grace.

the point being how can anything that in fosters one scintella of persecution be in any way of christ? and that is not even acknowledging the emotional and psychological pain it induces.

everybody is aware that seperate but equal does not exist. saying “we’re all sinners” fosters inequality. in your acknowledgement that you believe homosexuality is a sin demands that you responsibly acknowledge the persecution that statement will foster. how can you believe that something that as intimate as sexual identity is soothed by saying we are all sinners.

and we are saying it to our brothers in christ who we share the same inheritance. how is this an act of fellowship? without a one on one witness in active fellowship of christ,where it is no longer about belief, but is active witness as to the spirit of the orientation, that it comes against christ

that brings up my question. apart from mindset, cultural conditioning, and bias (possible homophia…etc) what is it that convinces you that homosexuality is a sin? what is your witness?

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

But there is no need for one who experiences same gender attraction to be in therapy unless there are other issues to be dealt with.

The fallacy here is that you take a premise “homosexuality is the mirror image of a normal heterosexual relationship” to reach a conclusion “homosexuality is the mirror image of a normal heterosexual relationship”.

There always are “other issues”. Two young men, both virgins, do not realise that they love each other in a sexual way, and then establish a lifelong exclusive union. Homosexual relationships just don’t work that way.

 

[feetxxxl]

your diabetes is a disorder. i myself am borderline so understand about cravings…the difference betwen cravings and normal desire for food is that cravings are about having have it right NOW is couched in feeling good about myself. where as normal food hunger says “i need food” and i will eat it some time in the future.

if your metaphor with homosexuality was to hold up then homosexuality would have to be about lust which has the same “NOW” dimension.

that is not the truth. homosexuality is about mutual attraction, respect and love the same as in heterosexuality.

ill ask you the same question . apart from ant cultural conditioning, and mindset, what is your witness that tells you it is a disorder.

 

[goofyjim]

The fallacy here is that you take a premise “homosexuality is the mirror image of a normal heterosexual relationship” to reach a conclusion “homosexuality is the mirror image of a normal heterosexual relationship”.

There always are “other issues”. Two young men, both virgins, do not realise that they love each other in a sexual way, and then establish a lifelong exclusive union. Homosexual relationships just don’t work that way.

There are not always “other issues”. Two young men can also commit to a chaste friendship even after they discovered they were also sexually attracted to each other. Or one can grow up knowing he is sexually attracted to other men and choose never to share that with anyone. There is nothing abnormal here. It can be a natural attraction for some.

 

[feetxxxl]

according to the conservative numbers(4%) there are 12 million homosexuals in this country, 320 million worldwide are you saying that you can speak for all social interactions?

what is your witness?

 

[estesbob]

your diabetes is a disorder. i myself am borderline so understand about cravings…the difference betwen cravings and normal desire for food is that cravings are about having have it right NOW is couched in feeling good about myself. where as normal food hunger says “i need food” and i will eat it some time in the future.

if your metaphor with homosexuality was to hold up then homosexuality would have to be about lust which has the same “NOW” dimension.

that is not the truth. homosexuality is about mutual attraction, respect and love the same as in heterosexuality.

ill ask you the same question . apart from ant cultural conditioning, and mindset, what is your witness that tells you it is a disorder.

Well you asked. One of the first things my mother taught me is its not good to stick things up your anus. There is nothing ordered about homosexual behavior-the body simply is not designed for the sex they enage in AND their sexaul behavior can NEVER serve to accomplish any purpose other than self gratification.

BTW-most studies found that people who engage exclusively in homosesual behavior make up less than 3% of the populace-for women its under 1%. The idea that becuase 1 to 3% of the population engages in a behavior therefore it must be OK is specious.

As Jim points out SSA is not a sin at all. Its acting on it that is disordered.

 

[puzzleannie]

that is not the truth. homosexuality is about mutual attraction, respect and love the same as in heterosexuality.

.

homosexuality is by definition a disorder because it is an inclination to perform actions that are against nature. the erotic literature of homosexuality and the propaganda of major gay-lesbian lobbying, advocacy and education organizations do not put forth your view, that homosexuality is about mutual attraction, respect and love, and definitely deny that it is the same as heterosexuality. It is not the same. heterosexuality is about the human individual behaving in consonance with biology, sexual activity ordered to procreation. Homosexuality is a perversion of that natural act.

 

[goofyjim]

Homosexual actions are a perversion and an abomination. Homosexual attraction is not and can be expressed without the act of sex. It can still be considered love.

 

[feetxxxl]

well no disrespect to your mother(i was asking for your witness not your witness to your mother.) the anus is an errogenous zone…one can actually have anal orgasms. 20% of all heterosexual couples use some form of anal stimulation. and there has never been any negative emphasis by either the american psychologial society or the ama on this kind of activity. here again if this was a socialogical discussiion then we would go into this with more depth. but my main premise for coming on this website was to discuss the spirit of homosexality or whether it is mere human attraction and is of christ if it embraces the fruit of the spirit. and what is our witness of the spirit of this orientation.

1john1 saying true witness takes place in the spirit of fellowship.

so ill ask again what is your witness as to the spirit of homosexually.

 

[goofyjim]

well no disrespect to your mother(i was asking for your witness not your witness to your mother.) the anus is an errogenous zone…one can actually have anal orgasms. 20% of all heterosexual couples use some form of anal stimulation. and there has never been any negative emphasis by either the american psychologial society or the ama on this kind of activity. here again if this was a socialogical discussiion then we would go into this with more depth. but my main premise for coming on this website was to discuss the spirit of homosexality or whether it is mere human attraction and is of christ if it embraces the fruit of the spirit. and what is our witness of the spirit of this orientation.

1john1 saying true witness takes place in the spirit of fellowship.

so ill ask again what is your witness as to the spirit of homosexually.

My witness is that I don’t mind hanging out at all with the homosexually attracted but will continue to relate the truth that medically it is still an unsafe practice and I want to see them live full and productive lives. How’s that?

 

[estesbob]

well no disrespect to your mother(i was asking for your witness not your witness to your mother.) the anus is an errogenous zone…one can actually have anal orgasms. 20% of all heterosexual couples use some form of anal stimulation. and there has never been any negative emphasis by either the american psychologial society or the ama on this kind of activity. here again if this was a socialogical discussiion then we would go into this with more depth. but my main premise for coming on this website was to discuss the spirit of homosexality or whether it is mere human attraction and is of christ if it embraces the fruit of the spirit. and what is our witness of the spirit of this orientation.

1john1 saying true witness takes place in the spirit of fellowship.

so ill ask again what is your witness as to the spirit of homosexually.

Ah the old heterosexuals do it too cannard. You forgot to add the rest of that statistic-the overwheming majority of heterosexuals who do try it do it just once. Somethng about finding you privates covered in feces seems to put off most people. You may find that erotic-Most people do not.

 

[goofyjim]

Let’s be careful folks. Love with truth and truth with love is the only method that works. Calling people disordered is wrong completely.