Is Being Pro-Abortion Sinful?

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I had a discussion with a Catholic who is Pro-Abortion (Pro-choice as she likes to say :mad: ). She said she doesn’t appreciate the Church saying that being “pro-choice” is a sin. But after reading the CCC, I am not too sure that being simply “pro-choice” (her words) is sinful if one does not vote for candidates simply because they are “pro-choice”, or does not procure an abortion or speak out in favor of a women’s right to an abortion.

At what point does a Catholic cross the line in being “pro-choice” so that it is sinful?
 
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Journeyman:
I
At what point does a Catholic cross the line in being “pro-choice” so that it is sinful?
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“…I confess to Almighty God, and to you my brothers and sisters, that I have sinned through my own fault, in what I have done, AND IN WHAT I HAVE FAILED TO DO…”

To simply allow others to “choose” to murder is a sin as well. If you’re not part of the solution, you ARE part of the problem. One doesn’t have to march in front of abortion mills, but one must maintain a consistant and public attitude toward life.
 
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Journeyman:
I had a discussion with a Catholic who is Pro-Abortion (Pro-choice as she likes to say :mad: ). She said she doesn’t appreciate the Church saying that being “pro-choice” is a sin. But after reading the CCC, I am not too sure that being simply “pro-choice” (her words) is sinful if one does not vote for candidates simply because they are “pro-choice”, or does not procure an abortion or speak out in favor of a women’s right to an abortion.

At what point does a Catholic cross the line in being “pro-choice” so that it is sinful?
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being “pro-choice” directly contributes to a culture in which abortion is not treated as immoral. A “pro-choice” person, however small their "pro-choice"ness be, is another obstacle set in the path of those trying to deliver the unborn. There is no way that being “pro-choice” is not sinful. As far as voting, well, the culpability of the person is reduced by the factors of “full knowledge” and “deliberate consent” that they are contributing to the “pro-choice” movement (but once they have full knowledge and deliberate consent, their sin becomes mortal). But being “pro-choice” can NEVER be justified, not even in a small way, because moral law is written on the human heart. Full knowledge and deliberate consent is present. And “gravity” is never in doubt.
 
Just like Jesus said, you are either with me, or your are against me. Pro-choice is against Him.:yup:
 
That is saying she believes someone has the “right” to kill an innocent,although no crime was committed but merely existing. Her very stance is the stance that encourages and relieves the conscience of women who are procuring the murder of their child. She is not only sinning it is a grave sin that puts her in direct cooperation with evil.God Bless
 
Thanks for the responses so far.

Hypothetical for you----You have a Catholic friend who is “pro-choice” (they refuse to say pro-abortion). Now remember, this is a friend, so you would want to be as kind as possible. What would you say to them regarding the sinful nature of their state of mind? For instance, what kind of a sin is it when one is “pro-choice” in their mind, but has never taken action on their “pro-choice” stance. What commandment? And is that a mortal sin (in this case, the person knows the Church is pro-life)?
 
It sounds like your friend rationalizes this belief as not being sinful using the typical “well I’m against it for myself but I don’t think it’s right to force this belief on others…” Then ask them if being pro slavery or pro murder or pro child abuse would be a sin. No real difference in the basic philosophy, but I think a lot of people consider that standing by while thousands are murdered is OK as long as you don’t see it happen.

Lisa N
 
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Journeyman:
What would you say to them regarding the sinful nature of their state of mind? )?
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yeah…the line I inadvertantly left out…“in my thoughts and in my words…”

Rev. 3:15-16 “I know your works; I know that you are neither cold or hot…So because you are lukewarm,…I will spit you out of my mouth.”

Lisa makes a great point. It’s tacit approval. You can correct someone lovingly w/out alienating them. It may not be comfortable, but it is the generous thing to do–to sugar coat it would do your friend an injustice. Remember, eternity is much longer than this mortal life, and if she hears you, she will be grateful in the looooong run.
 
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Journeyman:
At what point does a Catholic cross the line in being “pro-choice” so that it is sinful?
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When with knowledge they consent to abortion in their heart. By way of analogy it is equally as deadly to committ adultery as it is to desire anothers spouse. Similarly it is equally as deadly to murder a child as it is to desire that others kill a child.

God Bless
 
ask your friend to apply her reasoning to other choices such as: is it sinful to be racist? anti-Semitic? tolerant of terrorism as a poltitical tool? pro-slavery?
 
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puzzleannie:
ask your friend to apply her reasoning to other choices such as: is it sinful to be racist? anti-Semitic? tolerant of terrorism as a poltitical tool? pro-slavery?
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She might well have poor reasoning (just like many Catholics who say they are not racist but they just think “big government regulation” has no place in making racism illegal) but it is questionable if that is a sin.

Certainly to actually participate in abortion is a grave sin.

Not effectively working against abortion by calling ones slef “pro-choice”? I don;t know. I certainly would be in the same catatory as someone who claims to be “pro-life” but is so nasty and judgemental about it, they are ineffective or even coutnerproductive.
 
The sin of abortion is exactly what the CCC says it is - having one, participating in one or performing one. An opinion is just not the same thing as an action. Many times, you have the choice between voting for a pro-choice politician or not voting at all. And the CCC does say that you are supposed to vote. If you follow this line of reasoning, then if you think that people shouldn’t be thrown in jail for commiting adultery, then I guess you would be guilty of adultery for holding that opinion. This is sheer nonsense. Some people, I think, are pro-choice in the same sense that God is pro-choice - He gave them a free will, and they know that they are not capable of overriding someone’s free will.
 
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Journeyman:
Thanks for the responses so far.

Hypothetical for you----You have a Catholic friend who is “pro-choice” (they refuse to say pro-abortion). Now remember, this is a friend, so you would want to be as kind as possible. What would you say to them regarding the sinful nature of their state of mind? For instance, what kind of a sin is it when one is “pro-choice” in their mind, but has never taken action on their “pro-choice” stance. What commandment? And is that a mortal sin (in this case, the person knows the Church is pro-life)?
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I think, at its core, sin can be defined simply as “turning away from God”. In other words, something does not need to be an “action” to be a sin. For example, the Catchism states that despair and presumption are sins against hope [CCC 2091]. These are neither sins of commission (in the sense of an ‘action’) nor sins of omission. They are sins of mental assent to un-Godly states of mind.

I would think the same holds true of the pro-abortion mentality, although the person’s culpability would be commensurate with other factors involved. For example, a pro-abortion abortionist obviously is much more culpable than a pro-abortion politician, who is much more culpable than a pro-abortion man who is not directly involved in providing abortions or setting policy.

Peace.
 
If being pro-choice in itself was a grave sin, then this person should not receive communion. But if it is not a grave sin, then she is cleansed of the sin at each Mass at the penetential rite and when receiving Eucharist. But this seems odd, since her state of mind has not changed. If she was sorry, she would turn from this sin. Therefore, if a state of mind is a sin, it most be a grave sin, since one is making a choice to maintain a state of mind inconsistent with the Church and the will of God. So is it a mortal sin to be pro-choice but never actually procure an abortion or vote for a candidate just because they are pro-life, etc…?

I am hoping there is some kind of CCC reference that addresses this type of sin.
 
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Journeyman:
I am hoping there is some kind of CCC reference that addresses this type of sin.
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CCC 1849: Sin is an offense against reason, truth, and right conscience…It has been defined as “an utterance, a deed, or a desire contrary to the eternal law.” (Ref. St. Augustine, Contra Faustum)

CCC 2269 The fifth commandment forbids doing anything with the intention of* indirectly* bringing about a person’s death.The moral law prohibits exposing someone to mortal danger without grave reasons, as well as refusing assistance to a person in danger.

“The acceptance by human society of murderous famines, without efforts to remedy them is a scandalous injustice and a grave offense…”

CCC 2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception.* (all underlined portions are my emphasis)*

“Absolutely” means completely, totally, without reserve, etc… 2270 is very clear–respected AND protected.

Just as 2269 gives the example of famine–acceptance of abortion is " a scandalous injustice and a grave offense…"

Even if your friend’s desire is as passive as “I don’t want to think about it” if she is aware that she is making that chioce, she is morally culpable.
 
Just as 2269 gives the example of famine–acceptance of abortion is " a scandalous injustice and a grave offense…"
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You make a good point that just as we must support government action to limit hunger, we should support government action to limit abortion.*
 
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Journeyman:
I had a discussion with a Catholic who is Pro-Abortion (Pro-choice as she likes to say :mad: ). She said she doesn’t appreciate the Church saying that being “pro-choice” is a sin. But after reading the CCC, I am not too sure that being simply “pro-choice” (her words) is sinful if one does not vote for candidates simply because they are “pro-choice”, or does not procure an abortion or speak out in favor of a women’s right to an abortion.

At what point does a Catholic cross the line in being “pro-choice” so that it is sinful?
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Being permissive to the murder of children is always sinful, evil. For it was Christ who said…“whoever harms a single hair upon these little ones, it would have been better if they had never been born”. All Children are a gift from God.

The evil and sin of being a pro-abort baby killer does not ONLY manifest itself in the voting booth. The sin (as any heresy) is commited by the willful speparation of one from God…as this pro-baby-killer does. It will be evident in their actions and thoughts which will propogate the abominable crime of abortion.

I view such people as exceedingly dangerous. Will they subtely make statements that would encourage your daughter or sister to have their baby murdered? I think so.
 
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Journeyman:
If being pro-choice in itself was a grave sin, then this person should not receive communion. But if it is not a grave sin, then she is cleansed of the sin at each Mass at the penetential rite and when receiving Eucharist. But this seems odd, since her state of mind has not changed. If she was sorry, she would turn from this sin. Therefore, if a state of mind is a sin, it most be a grave sin, since one is making a choice to maintain a state of mind inconsistent with the Church and the will of God. So is it a mortal sin to be pro-choice but never actually procure an abortion or vote for a candidate just because they are pro-life, etc…?

I am hoping there is some kind of CCC reference that addresses this type of sin.
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A couple of helpful (hopefully!) comments:
  1. One’s state of mind does not necessarily implicate sin, and certainly not a mortal one. The circumstances involved play a huge part.
  2. Check the CCC for the definition of mortal sin. There are 3 conditions: Grave matter, full intent, full understanding. I would guess most “pro-choice” people most likely do not satisfy these conditions.
  3. I think a vote for a pro-abortion politician is more likely the grave sin of scandal, especially if the politician in question claims to be Catholic.
Peace.
 
I was sitting here staring at my previous post, and I realized that I didn’t make myself clear enough. The problem is that “pro-choice” is a very ambiguous term. It could mean a lot of different things to different people. Let me illustrate: Suppose I said that a bank robber had a choice. He could either choose to keep robbing banks, or he could choose to reform and stop robbing banks. Does that make me “pro-choice” for robbing banks? Does that make me guilty of the sin of bank robbery? If someone said they thought that President Bush was right to go to war in Iraq, does that mean that this person is “pro-death” and shouldn’t go to communion? When people say that they are pro-choice, they may mean anything from “God did give people a free will” to “Abortion is the best thing that ever happened to women.” I think it is very destructive to go around thinking that people are guilty of grave sin because of an opinion they hold, when half the time you don’t even know what they mean by their opinion.
 
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Journeyman:
Therefore, if a state of mind is a sin, it most be a grave sin, since one is making a choice to maintain a state of mind inconsistent with the Church and the will of God. So is it a mortal sin to be pro-choice but never actually procure an abortion or vote for a candidate just because they are pro-life, etc…?
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YES…
Because your hypothetical meets the criteria:
Check the CCC for the definition of mortal sin. There are 3 conditions: Grave matter, full intent, full understanding.
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