Is Belief In His Deity Essencial to salvation?

[jakasaki]

I’m done with this thread!

Is Belief In His Deity Essencial to salvation has NOTHING to do with islamic members on here.

So, stop feeding the trolls even if they do have over 1000 posts on CAF.

 

[jakasaki]

Can you please add Hamba to this as well…

JC, I’m done with this thread and I ask for the rest of the posters who wish to discuss ““Is Belief In His Deity Essencial to salvation?”” should do so and not entertain anything other than that!

 

[spn82756]

Agreed!

 

[Nine_Two]

I think that’s wise. If Muslims expect Christians to argue with integrity, it should be expected that they do the same.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

Planten…

You’re being too specific with his example. He doesn’t need to use an example for a young boy…young women or anything else. His example speaks for itself. If you’d like you can substitute wife for husband…daughter for son and mother for father. The women’s essence is still one. They cannot be separated. That is not to say that God is a woman. It’s just using his example differently. And the comment about needing to be a many headed god does not seem sincere at all.

Im beginning to think this person is just a troll waisting your time and hijacking this thread.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

Planten, what is your purpose on here by thread-jacking. If you have nothing to contribute to the thread topic then do not respond.

We have gove over “Trinity” with you a bazzilion times.

This is not the thread for islamic ignorance. Take it elsewhere.

PLEASE!:banghead:

 

[planten]

Can you please add Hamba to this as well…

JC, I’m done with this thread and I ask for the rest of the posters who wish to discuss ““Is Belief In His Deity Essencial to salvation?”” should do so and not entertain anything other than that!

Sorry to disturb you. There was some one (new) discussing Trinity. I should not have taken notice and should not have gone on that line. My apology. Forgive and forget please. Wassalam (Shalom). Good-Bye.

The belief inthe divinity is entirely a christian topic (business). We need not enter that field. You can all decide about the divinity between yourself. Sorry fellows, for disturbing you.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

(1) If Thomas was praying out loud in front of Jesus and the rest of the apostles to God the Father, it wouldn’t be blasphemous.

Regarding the figure of speech - I concur that this language would not have been used at that time and would have been blasphemous in that context.

(2) You are insulting the intelligence of people who can think for themselves by saying they lack common sense by not seeing the connection that Thomas was referring to Jesus. Perhaps they are ignorant of the Truth, but they don’t necessarily lack common sense because of it.

(3) To be quite honest, wouldn’t it have been simple common sense for the author to have been more explicit in the Gospel about the nature of Christ as being God? If it was that critical of a teaching, why is it so vague?

I do not doubt the Truth of the Triune Godhead. However, it is poor apologetic practice to call someone essentially an idiot for not getting the point you are trying to stress.

I agree with this entire post. especialy the last one… I was a lot like elvisman when I first came to the Lord and I now see that I did far more harm than good. the term “clanging symbol” come to mind.

 

[jmcrae]

This is a question that I have wrestled with, not that I dont believe in it because there is a ton of scriptural support that Jesus is in fact God. But the nature of God is hard to fathom and some people cant get past the verses that distinguish the human Jesus from His Father and thus conclude they are not one and the same. However they do believe in the original apostles creed. Any scriptural support that says its essential would be helpful. I think I have some but dont want to offer it yet.

Both the Apostles’ Creed and the Nicene Creed are based on the earliest Creed of all, which is the Sign of the Cross - “* the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, Amen.” Today, we don’t use it so much as a Creed as we do a prayer, so we say “In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” (So much for the prevailing modern idea that the earliest Christians didn’t believe in the Cross. )

The Glory Be is another variant on the Sign of the Cross that appeared in the early days of the Church - “Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end, Amen.”

From there, the early Church expanded its doctrine to what we now know as the Apostles’ Creed, which adds descriptions to each of the three titles of God.

For a more thorough explanation of the history, get yourself a copy of Denzinger’s The Sources of Catholic Dogma - the first chapter delves into the history of the Apostles’ Creed. It is really quite fascinating. *

 

[jmcrae]

Another weak point. You people are changing, amending the text of the bible in the name of improvement every day… That is illegal.

It certainly would be, if it were true. The “ammendments” come about because of improvements in translation, and because of the fact that our English language is a living language - words change their meaning over time. We do not speak King James’ English, today, so for modern day people to hear and understand the Scriptures, they need to be proclaimed in the same kind of English that people today speak.

I read in the king James version as follows:

…] before Abraham was, I AM.

Indeed you did.

Do you see the word “Born” in your post.

Nope.

Why is that??

Because Jesus is speaking of a time that is even before Abraham’s birth - and even before his conception.

In Psalm 8 we find something very, very interesting - we see that God knew us “when we were in the earth.” Not when we were in the womb - when we were in the earth. When was that? you might ask. I will assume that you did ask, and here is the answer:

God knew us when we were still in Adam - when He was just about to create Adam from the dust of the earth, there we were, too, encoded into Adam’s very DNA.

Jesus was already saying “I AM” before He had even begun to create Adam. “Before Abraham was” - before the DNA of Adam that was ultimately to become Abraham had even been created - Jesus “IS.”

So, yes - Jesus is definitely telling us, in this passage, that He is God, and that He precedes the human race. and the earliest Covenant of humankind with God.

 

[elvisman]

I agree with this entire post. especialy the last one… I was a lot like elvisman when I first came to the Lord and I now see that I did far more harm than good. the term “clanging symbol” come to mind.

And the term, “empy barrel” comes to mind when I read posts like this one.
All ad hominems and no substance.

 

[spn82756]

And the term, "empy barrel" comes to mind when I read posts like this one.
**All **ad hominems and no substance.

Unless I misunderstand…that’s not so nice a comment.

 

[elvisman]

Unless I misunderstand…that’s not so nice a comment.

It’s not that you misunderstand - you need to read the remark I was responding to.
I was responding to the charge of being called a “clanging symbol (cymbal)”.
MyRdmrLvs remark had nothing to do with thread and was simply an ad hominem attack.