Is Bible Corrupted By Human, Did God Knew That It Going To Happened

[abucs]

**
It was Jesus alright on the cross. It was Jesus who yelled to his God “O my God, O My God, Why have you forsaken me??” (At that time he forgot to call him the Father.) **

As has been said many times before Planten, Jesus did not simply forget this time to call him Father. He was quoting Psalm 22 which is a prophecy of his crucifixion and the subsequent spread of God’s word throughout the whole world in the form of Christianity. That psalm starts with the words - My God, my God why have you foresaken me ? All of the gospel writers present Jesus’ words in that way.

The Psalm 22 writes in verse 15 - ‘And You lay me in the dust of death’. ‘Death’ Planten not ‘almost death’. The psalm goes on to say from verse 27 that - “All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD, And all the families of the nations will worship before You. For the kingdom is the LORD’S and He rules over the nations”.

Sound familiar Planten ? It is Christianity.

And this psalm was written 1000 years before the crucifixion and mentioned by Jesus on the cross and known and quoted by the apostles and the early church as a confirmation of their faith. With the ressurrection of Jesus, this psalm makes sense. How can someone by lain in the dust of death and yet still praise God and through him bring the world to God ? 1000 years after it was written we got the answer.

God had answered the Jewish prayers of lament and worry and despair by taking the form of man and partaking in that condition and rising from the dead to give hope and life.

That is Christianity Planten.

geocities.com/catholicthoughts/Psalm22.htm

christiancourier.com/articles/441-does-psalm-22-prophesy-the-crucifixion-of-christ

 

[MelanieAnne]

I am not shia nor sunni. I am MUSLIM. These sect was not existed during my beloved prophet muhammad pbuh time. Let you know. Please read Quran 6:159. For your knowledge from www.quranexplorer.com. Thanking you. I go by Quran

Tom, Jesus said that He was the “Way, the Truth and the Life” and that NO ONE will come to the Father (the one you call Allah) except through Him.

Since Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life, it would be a better use of your life to study Jesus than Quran. Jesus is the Way to the Father (Allah). Regardless of the information given elsewhere, no one can afford to ignore the fact that Jesus is the Way to the Father (Allah).

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Since Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life, it would be a better use of your life to study Jesus than Quran. Jesus is the Way to the Father (Allah). Regardless of the information given elsewhere, no one can afford to ignore the fact that Jesus is the Way to the Father (Allah).

Furthermore, research Christian apologetics - don’t just repeat what the Koran and imams tell you.

Don’t come to a Christian forum and answer everything with “The Koran tells me so.” This will get you no where.

 

[tomshaikh]

Tom, Jesus said that He was the “Way, the Truth and the Life” and that NO ONE will come to the Father (the one you call Allah) except through Him.

Since Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life, it would be a better use of your life to study Jesus than Quran. Jesus is the Way to the Father (Allah). Regardless of the information given elsewhere, no one can afford to ignore the fact that Jesus is the Way to the Father (Allah).

Well I believe in jesus as a prophet not as a son of god or God. Show me one verse from Bible in which jesus said that he is God. So please follow what jesus real teaching are which is not what you guyz are teaching in church. dancing and shouting. you need to come down in front of Allah. Jesus will never gonna save you and us from hell. Jesus will show you the right path but now you guyz forget his teaching. And it is too late for you all how are in this forum will alive for his second coming. By than everyone will be safe and believe in him. But he is also gonna teach us the right way and tell us that he is not son of god and god byhimself. That is my believe in him not more than that i know he will be the way of life on his second coming tell than i am follower of last prophet who is muhammad pbuh.

I am just thinking what about Abrahim follower jesus was not there at that time who are dust now. I am thinking issac follower jesus was not there ar that time who are dust now. I am thinking moses followers jesus was not there at that time who are dust now. What are you talking about guyz. Hit the reality and open ur mind. Allah O Akbar Allah O Akbar Allah O Akbar

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Well I believe in jesus as a prophet not as a son of god or God. Show me one verse from Bible in which jesus said that he is God.

This is the most common logical fallacy used by Muslims, and it’s the weakest by far. It presents three problems:

1. 
   *]To demand a statement be made ignores the facts that can prove the statement. By the logic of this argument, Hitler wasn’t a racist because he never said “I am racist,” and Vlad the Impaler wasn’t a murderer because he never said “I am a murderer.”
   *]Christ may have never said “I am God,” but neither did He say “I am the Messiah” nor “I am a prophet.” Therefore, by this line of thinking, Christ is neither God, Messiah, nor prophet.
   *]The mere statement would not make it true. Suppose I made a thread stating “I am God.” Does that mean every Muslim on this forum has to now worship me? Does that mean I really am God? Of course not! Why then ask for such a declaration?
   
   The fact is that there are many scriptures where Christ clearly outlines His divinity. This has been shared with you. You responded by stating all those passages were man-made without presenting any evidence as to why we should believe this. So please, do not be intellectually dishonest with us. Do not ask us to quote the Bible, then state the Bible is corrupt. That is circular logic in its purest form.
   

   Jesus will show you the right path but now you guyz forget his teaching.

   We did not “forget” anything, we still have Christ’s teachings as preserved by His followers. We simply refuse to believe a man unrelated to Christianity who came 600 years later and couldn’t confirm the legitimacy of his own beliefs.

 

[tomshaikh]

Originally Posted by MelanieAnne
Tom, Jesus said that He was the “Way, the Truth and the Life” and that NO ONE will come to the Father (the one you call Allah) except through Him.

Any Christian explain me this verse. I think this verse makes no sense. What about other prophets followers who became dust now. How will be those judge. I think this verse is man made.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Any Christian explain me this verse. I think this verse makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense, actually. Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life - these traits are only associated with God, hence Christ is confirming His deity. Same when Christ tells Martha, sister to Lazarus, that He is the Resurrection - only God could make the Resurrection. If Jesus were merely a prophet, then He was a blasphemer as well.

What about other prophets followers who became dust now. How will be those judge.

I assume you mean those who died before Jesus. Christ went down to hell after His death and freed those souls within who adored God, therefore they are in the bosom of Abraham as we speak.

 

[tomshaikh]

I assume you mean those who died before Jesus. Christ went down to hell after His death and freed those souls within who adored God, therefore they are in the bosom of Abraham as we speak.

Explain more i donot get it.

 

[tomshaikh]

Any Christian Any Christian!!!

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Explain more i donot get it.

Ask yourself, what happened after the fall of mankind. Why did man fall? What was our state with God?

When man fell, we fell with our sin (hence why the snake was described eating dirt and was cast out with Adam and Eve) and were separated from God - this included after death. Jewish belief was that when we died we went to sheol, which was a place where both good and bad people went and where one felt isolated from God spiritually. The wages of sin was death, and when people died they remained in the earth.

Furthermore, it must be remembered we had been made in the image of God, and when we sinned we violated that image. This is the reference made by Christ regarding the coin which was lost (Luke 18) - coins back then bore the image of the king, just as man was made in the image of God.

When the Word became incarnate, Christ took on our flesh - He took on that image of God which had been tarnished. He lived a sinless life and then sacrificed Himself on the cross as a final sacrifice for our sins. When He died he descended to sheol, just as any person did, only this time something different happen. The pits could not contain Christ because of His deity, and so the very gates were shattered. From thereon, for three days, Christ preached to the dead, and those who accepted were given the eternal life promised to modern-day Christians. Those who accepted Christ (as the Wise Thief did on the cross) rose to Paradise with Him. Hence, those who lived before the time of Christ’s ministries were reunited with the God they had worshiped. When Christ later rose again, He rose in a spiritually glorified body, giving a cure to our tarnishing of the image of God.

Therefore it says, “When he ascended on high, He led captive a host of captives, and He gave gifts to men.” Now this expression, “He ascended,” what does it mean except that he also had descended into the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things. [Ephesians 4:8-10]

Any Christian Any Christian!!!

Uh, you waited 11 minutes for someone to respond? Show patience, please At some forums, you’d get banned for doing stuff like this.

 

[tomshaikh]

Ask yourself, what happened after the fall of mankind. Why did man fall? What was our state with God?

When man fell, we fell with our sin (hence why the snake was described eating dirt and was cast out with Adam and Eve) and were separated from God - this included after death. Jewish belief was that when we died we went to sheol, which was a place where both good and bad people went and where one felt isolated from God spiritually. The wages of sin was death, and when people died they remained in the earth.

Furthermore, it must be remembered we had been made in the image of God, and when we sinned we violated that image. This is the reference made by Christ regarding the coin which was lost (Luke 18) - coins back then bore the image of the king, just as man was made in the image of God.

When the Word became incarnate, Christ took on our flesh - He took on that image of God which had been tarnished. He lived a sinless life and then sacrificed Himself on the cross as a final sacrifice for our sins. When He died he descended to sheol, just as any person did, only this time something different happen. The pits could not contain Christ because of His deity, and so the very gates were shattered. From thereon, for three days, Christ preached to the dead, and those who accepted were given the eternal life promised to modern-day Christians. Those who accepted Christ (as the Wise Thief did on the cross) rose to Paradise with Him. Hence, those who lived before the time of Christ’s ministries were reunited with the God they had worshiped. When Christ later rose again, He rose in a spiritually glorified body, giving a cure to our tarnishing of the image of God.

Therefore it says, “When he ascended on high, He led captive a host of captives, and He gave gifts to men.” Now this expression, “He ascended,” what does it mean except that he also had descended into the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things. [Ephesians 4:8-10]

Uh, you waited 11 minutes for someone to respond? Show patience, please At some forums, you’d get banned for doing stuff like this.

I appaluse for your response. But my heart doesnot believe all this coz person who died will never return to this world until judgement day. And jesus suppose to come back before judgement day. And why he is coming back if you told all story above. What is the reason for jesus to come back. If every thinking settled down. Just One big bang and finsih the world coz jesus settled down everything as you told above. I donot know where this all BS you are getting from Allah knows better.

 

[tomshaikh]

Any Christian Any Christian!!!

 

[abucs]

Tom, your English is now officially not understandable.

We can’t respond to you if we can’t understand your English.

As far as Jesus and God goes, i read the scripture, i study history and particle physics and how the universe is put together and am convinced that Jesus is the incarnation of God. I have quoted bible verses literally in the dozens to muslims and they either still say ‘no’ or they go silent. I am convinced, billions are convinced, if you are not then that’s your call Tom.

The whole idea of God coming as man was as a testimony to goodness, fidelity to God and the ressurection. Obviously if God became incarnate in our universe with five heads and was 20 metres tall and vaporised Roman legions in their thousands then we would not have the devotion to God through Christianity that we have today and man would have learned nothing except God is a monster. We have Christianity because of how God was incarnated and the lessons of love and sacrifice and humility He gives us from that.

Some Muslims have this very silly idea of who God should be and then say Jesus wasn’t him.

Jesus came as the incarnation of goodness not the invincible God that cannot be touched. Such a God would not be crucified. And such devotion to God would not have been created. And such a spreading of Christian love, charity and science would not have occurred throughout the earth.

God knows what He is doing.

If you don’t get that Tom then that is your call.

 

[seraphime2008]

As far as Jesus and God goes, i read the scripture, i study history and particle physics and how the universe is put together and am convinced that Jesus is the incarnation of God. I have quoted bible verses literally in the dozens to muslims and they either still say no or they go silent. I am convinced, billions are convinced, if you are not then that’s your call Tom.

The whole idea of God coming as man was as a testimony to goodness, fidelity to God and the ressurection. Obviously if God became incarnate in our universe with five heads and was 20 metres tall and vaporised Roman legions in their thousands then we would not have the devotion to God through Christianity that we have today and man would have learned nothing except God is a monster. We have Christianity because of how God was incarnated and the lessons of love and sacrifice and humility He gives us from that.

Some Muslims have this very silly idea of who God should be and then say Jesus wasn’t him.

Jesus came as the incarnation of goodness not the invincible God that cannot be touched. Such a God would not be crucified. And such devotion to God would not have been created. And such a spreading of Christian love, charity and science would not have occurred throughout the earth.

If you don’t get that Tom then that is your call.

:thumbsup:Only that the Muslims usually want to hear version that goes with them, they can’t accept explanations of Christian

 

[tomshaikh]

Tom, your English is now officially not understandable.

We can’t respond to you if we can’t understand your English.

As far as Jesus and God goes, i read the scripture, i study history and particle physics and how the universe is put together and am convinced that Jesus is the incarnation of God. I have quoted bible verses literally in the dozens to muslims and they either still say ‘no’ or they go silent. I am convinced, billions are convinced, if you are not then that’s your call Tom.

The whole idea of God coming as man was as a testimony to goodness, fidelity to God and the ressurection. Obviously if God became incarnate in our universe with five heads and was 20 metres tall and vaporised Roman legions in their thousands then we would not have the devotion to God through Christianity that we have today and man would have learned nothing except God is a monster. We have Christianity because of how God was incarnated and the lessons of love and sacrifice and humility He gives us from that.

Some Muslims have this very silly idea of who God should be and then say Jesus wasn’t him.

Jesus came as the incarnation of goodness not the invincible God that cannot be touched. Such a God would not be crucified. And such devotion to God would not have been created. And such a spreading of Christian love, charity and science would not have occurred throughout the earth.

God knows what He is doing.

If you don’t get that Tom then that is your call.

your english is good but your writing doesnot make sense. Whereas my english is bad but my writing make sense.

 

[seraphime2008]

tomshaikh; 5468031:

your english is good but your writing doesnot make sense. Whereas my english is bad but my writing make sense.

Uh…but the Muslims are the ones that has limited God to their own thoughts that God cannot incarnate into human being. They are the ones that have limited God to God unable to revealed Himself to human being. They are the ones who think that God would never be able to become Human but at the same time retain His Divinity and His Omnipresence.

They have limited God to what they perceive.

 

[planten]

Tom, your English is now officially not understandable.

We can’t respond to you if we can’t understand your English.

As far as Jesus and God goes, i read the scripture, i study history and particle physics and how the universe is put together and am convinced that Jesus is the incarnation of God. I have quoted bible verses literally in the dozens to muslims and they either still say ‘no’ or they go silent. I am convinced, billions are convinced, if you are not then that’s your call Tom.

** abucs, you may have convinced a few hundred persons but millions are not convinced. The whole lot of Muslims and the whole lot of the Jews do not go with you about Jesus being God. We have written many times that Jesus never preached that he was God. He was not worshipped. He used to pray to his God. We do not want to disturb you and without prejudice, we have to tell you what we all believe.

Now you know that only your branch of christians believes what you had written above and below. The Hindus and the Budhists and the Jews and the Muslims of the world are not with you. Only a few sects of christianity has got your kind of beliefs. Would you admit it please?**

The whole idea of God coming as man was as a testimony to goodness, fidelity to God and the ressurection. Obviously if God became incarnate in our universe with five heads and was 20 metres tall and vaporised Roman legions in their thousands then we would not have the devotion to God through Christianity that we have today and man would have learned nothing except God is a monster. We have Christianity because of how God was incarnated and the lessons of love and sacrifice and humility He gives us from that.

**There is no such thing that if the God Himself came to the world as a man, it would be the symbol of goodness. You have made that formula yourself. Where was that goodness before Jesus came in the world? And where is it since he left? Please do not discuss the original sin because that was invented by some one (May be paul) to use Jesus as a scapegoat for the redemption of sins. There is no original sin.

Adam and Eve repented and God forgave them. So no sin remained. Yoru idea of God is not goodwhen you say that God cannot forgive sins without punishing his son (Jesus). jesus taught repentence and so did all the prophets, including John the baptist. When any one becomes sorry about his sin and returns to god (repents) then that is all forgiven. It is all written in beautiful in the bibleNT and taught by Jesus. Please see mathew for that, when one younger brother took money nd went away to other country to do busines. He lost all the money and came back to his father. The father met him well and rejoiced andforgave him.

We can read and understand the bible without your help. Thanks to you for trying to teach us.
**

Some Muslims have this very silly idea of who God should be and then say Jesus wasn’t him

.

**Muslims do not have any silly idea of God. It is you people with a *illy idea of a tripod God and trinity which your own people cannot undertand. You have many fallacies and impossible things that you want the world to believe. I have mentioned just one (the original sin). The other is Three Gods in One and One God in Three shapes.

Then you say that God made his son to suffer on the cross for the other people’s sins. Who would believe you. Perhaps it was not the son on teh Cross but the God Himself on the cross suffering for the sinners. Who would understandsuch complicated formulae??

You think over all tehse. Then you will not call the Muslims as silly.**

Jesus came as the incarnation of goodness not the invincible God that cannot be touched. Such a God would not be crucified. And such devotion to God would not have been created. And such a spreading of Christian love, charity and science would not have occurred throughout the earth.

God knows what He is doing.

If you don’t get that Tom then that is your call.

Nobody can understand what you are trying to teach about your God.

 

[seraphime2008]

Planten,
with all your repeated argument, nobody will ever take you seriously now. :banghead:

But as Muslims, when they were not taken seriously, they take the world as the stage of “performance” to show how they are capable of doing: bombing people, create chaos and destruction. You with your ideology are the one that needs to check the reality surround you, you and muslims are showing that you can only have bad…very very bad fruits. And what Jesus told us: you can see whether they come from God or not by the fruit that they produce!

You have to go and preach ur own fellow Muslims to see what went and goes wrong with u and your world.

 

[Jay53]

I appaluse for your response. But my heart doesnot believe all this coz person who died will never return to this world until judgement day. And jesus suppose to come back before judgement day. And why he is coming back if you told all story above. What is the reason for jesus to come back. If every thinking settled down. Just One big bang and finsih the world coz jesus settled down everything as you told above. I donot know where this all BS you are getting from Allah knows better.

If Jesus has never returned and is not with us now, how do you explain all of the Saints who have seen him, (i.e. Saint Faustina Kowalska vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/saints/ns_lit_doc_20000430_faustina_en.html) and Eucharistic Miracles that confirm that Jesus did, in fact, give us His Body and Blood at the Last Supper (therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/a3.html). How do you also explain the appearance of His Blessed Mother numerous times (at Fatima, Lourdes, Guadalupe, etc)?

You also haven’t explained how you know that Muhammad didn’t actually receive his “revelations” from Satan. Muhammad contradicted God’s Word 600 years after It had already been confirmed.

 

[sedonaman]

**…
Please do not discuss the original sin because that was invented by some one (May be paul) to use Jesus as a scapegoat for the redemption of sins. There is no original sin.
**

There had to have been origianl sin. Adam and Eve were the first man and woman. There was no sin before them because there were no people around to sin. When you say that they repented, you are admitting they sinned; that was the first sin, the original sin.

**
…
jesus [sic] taught repentence and so did all the prophets, including John the baptist.
**

That is out of the Bible which is corrupted. Why do you need the Bible if it is corrupted? Why do you keep quoting from a corrupted document? Why does Mohammad need a corrupted document to validate himself?

**…
We can read and understand the bible without your help. Thanks to you for trying to teach us.
**

Why do you need to understand a corrupted document? There is nothing but bad information in it, all invented by Paul of Tarsus and other MEN. Why do you need them? If you want to learn about Jesus, why not just consult the Qur’an instead? The people who wrote the Qur’an came 600 years after Jesus, and they had to have known him better than those who were alive at the time and actually heard what He said.