Is Billy Joel song offensive?

[Shinobu]

puzzleannie:

I have been boycotting Billy Joel for years because of this song, don’t allow his music in the house or in my car. I also think the entire assumption about marriage that underlies the pina colada song is warped.

About the Pina Colada song, am I incorrect in my assumption that that song is basically about a married couple who are unahppy with their marriage so they put a personal ad in the newspaper with the thoughts of having an affair only to meet the person and find out it is their significant other and then they are all like “ah it’s you!” and are all happy and dance around even though the two were contemplating cheating?

What a fluffy happy love song lol

 

[surfinpure]

phatrunt29:

the better question is how well do you all know Billy Joel? My father grew up next door to the garage that he always practiced in as a teenager. how many can actually say that? he is a really great guy and as for people saying that he is a scumbag i don’t see anyone else complaining about other musicians(and i use that term loosely) who use similar lyrics! That is one song you have taken and made it sound like that is all he sings. So my advice is before you talk trash about the one song and the singer check out the rest of the songs!!!

Okay, how about we take another song he sings, “Uptown Girl,” which is about, he happily admits, a perverse type of sex?

I’m sorry, but the mere fact that your dad grew up hearing ol’ Billy practice does nothing to convince me that his lyrics are moral. The one has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

 

[Genesis315]

phatrunt29:

the better question is how well do you all know Billy Joel? My father grew up next door to the garage that he always practiced in as a teenager. how many can actually say that? he is a really great guy and as for people saying that he is a scumbag i don’t see anyone else complaining about other musicians(and i use that term loosely) who use similar lyrics! That is one song you have taken and made it sound like that is all he sings. So my advice is before you talk trash about the one song and the singer check out the rest of the songs!!!

Other musicians who use even worse lyrics (ie most rappers, etc.) are likewise scumbags.

 

[Steph700]

All I know is that this song has been running through my head non-stop since I first read this thread. And I also heard in on the drive home from work. It’s all a BIG conspiracy!!!

 

[adstrinity]

surf(name removed by moderator)ure:

Okay, how about we take another song he sings, “Uptown Girl,” which is about, he happily admits, a perverse type of sex?QUOTE]

WHAT!!! Oh man, this is the first I’m hearing about this. I’ve just read the lyrics & I can MAYBE BARELY see that if one WANTS it to be about that, it can be. If that’s what it’s really about, then, kudos to him for hiding it so well.

In the meantime, did anybody else freak out when they first heard, “Piano Man” with the lyrics,

Now Paul is a real estate novelist
Who never had time for a wife
And he’s talking with Davy, who’s still in the Navy
And probably will be for life

!!! I know I did!!

 

[Steph700]

adstrinity:

In the meantime, did anybody else freak out when they first heard, “Piano Man” with the lyrics,

Now Paul is a real estate novelist
Who never had time for a wife
And he’s talking with Davy, who’s still in the Navy
And probably will be for life

!!! I know I did!!

No. Since when is two guys at the bar having a conversation worth freaking out about?

 

[Lost_Found]

The song was controversial from day one when it was released in the 70’s. It’s from his album The Stranger which was probably his best album and I believe the one that propelled him to fame (not his earlier piano man album). It’s the worst song on the album but controversy sells - just ask Dan Brown. Some radio stations were banning the song back then, and of course you couldn’t get better publicity than that back in the sixties and seventies.

Right after September 11 it was included in a long list of banned songs because of its title. I don’t know how long it was banned for at that time, maybe they’re just starting to replay it more frequently.

The song is offensive to my beliefs. The “artist” shows complete insensitivity to others’ values, and he was a poor role model for the teenagers who bought it.

 

[2shelbys]

Wow. Most of you need take a deep breath and examine how un-Catholic your reactions and comments are. Punch Billy Joel in the face? Scumbags? That sounds like something you need to confess to me. You also need to open your minds to other possible meanings this song could have instead of jumping to conclusions about the intentions of someone you do not know (which is also pretty un-Catholic). When I hear this song or read the lyrics it strikes me as a pretty strong message about how the Catholic Church and a Catholic upbringing protect young children (in this case a girl) from the occasion of sin. It seems to me this song casts a pretty positive light on our faith and I like that.

 

[adstrinity]

Steph700:

No. Since when is two guys at the bar having a conversation worth freaking out about?

Okay, maybe it’s just me, but, it implies homosexuality, I think. Remember, if something CAN be interpreted a certain way, it will be.

The first guy who “never had time for a wife” indicates that he’s probably middle age at least, and, what was the indication about single middle age men back in the day? And, that he’s talking to a guy in the navy, “and probably will be for life.” Doesn’t the navy have a history of homosexuality in general? That these two are talking TO EACH OTHER, both single men, kinda struck me as a budding relationship. I thought it was subtle, but clever, the way he worded this.

 

[surfinpure]

2shelbys:

Wow. Most of you need take a deep breath and examine how un-Catholic your reactions and comments are. Punch Billy Joel in the face? Scumbags? That sounds like something you need to confess to me. You also need to open your minds to other possible meanings this song could have instead of jumping to conclusions about the intentions of someone you do not know (which is also pretty un-Catholic). When I hear this song or read the lyrics it strikes me as a pretty strong message about how the Catholic Church and a Catholic upbringing protect young children (in this case a girl) from the occasion of sin. It seems to me this song casts a pretty positive light on our faith and I like that.

Might want to be careful about telling people what they need to confess. That borders on spiritual nosiness if you ask me.

As for his intentions, they’re made pretty clear when one reviews the scope of his music, as is demonstrated right here in this thread. Like it or not, Billy Joel is no role model. He doesn’t even have a reputation in the secular world for being a role model! He’s a tough New Yorker who, in his own words, “doesn’t take any s*** from nobody” (heard that on a television concert he gave).

No doubt many of us need to take a step back from our favorite musicians, myself included, and eyeball their messages. I know it’s disappointing sometimes. This is the music we grew up with; this is what connects with us. It’s a very emotional attachment. But what about gathering the courage to look at these messages for what they are, and not what we’d like them to be? There is great virtue to be sought in that.

 

[2shelbys]

surf(name removed by moderator)ure:

Might want to be careful about telling people what they need to confess. That borders on spiritual nosiness if you ask me.

As for his intentions, they’re made pretty clear when one reviews the scope of his music, as is demonstrated right here in this thread. Like it or not, Billy Joel is no role model. He doesn’t even have a reputation in the secular world for being a role model! He’s a tough New Yorker who, in his own words, “doesn’t take any s*** from nobody” (heard that on a television concert he gave).

No doubt many of us need to take a step back from our favorite musicians, myself included, and eyeball their messages. I know it’s disappointing sometimes. This is the music we grew up with; this is what connects with us. It’s a very emotional attachment. But what about gathering the courage to look at these messages for what they are, and not what we’d like them to be? There is great virtue to be sought in that.

Spiritual nosiness? Where I grew up, “nosiness” meant trying to find out things you had no business knowing. Commenting on the fact that making angry, hateful, sometimes violent remarks in a public forum (or anywhere else for that matter) is not particularly in line with Catholic teaching has nothing to do with “nosiness”. If you think that I am wrong about this just ask your Pastor what he thinks about punching people in the face or calling them scumbags and let me know what he says.

For the record, although I do like a lot of Billy’s material, he is far from my “favorite” musician ( I am more of a “progressive” classical music-influenced rock guy), that is not why I seemed to be defending him. I was merely pointing out that no reasonable person would insist that their interpretation of any song’s lyrics are exactly what the composer had in mind. I’ll give you two extreme examples of two “evil” sounding songs from notoriously “evil” rock bands: the song “Children of the Grave” by Black Sabbath, and “Creeping Death” by Metallica. If you read the lyrics of these two songs you find that “Children of the Grave” is an anti-war, anti-nuclear proliferation song and “Creeping Death” is actually about the Passover and God’s retribution against the Pharoh for the enslavement of the Jews. I am certainly not putting those two bands up as Christian role models by any means, far from it, I’m just pointing out that not everything is what it seems, and not all musicians are simple, one-track-minded people. Besides, we shouldn’t look to musicians or any other entertainers to be role models anyway, all we should worry about is trying to be good Catholic role models ourselves. Life is too short to spend valuable time looking for things to be offended by and complaining about them. I’ll leave that to the liberals who invented such behaviour and who seem to love it so much.

 

[jeffreedy789]

i heard ‘only the good die young’ on the radio today, and found the lyrics to be pretty offensive. particuarly the line that says ‘i’d rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints’.

it’s sad that he feels that way, and singing about it, i think, causes other people, esp impressionable young people, to adopt his mentality.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

jeffreedy789:

i heard ‘only the good die young’ on the radio today, and found the lyrics to be pretty offensive. particuarly the line that says ‘i’d rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints’.

it’s sad that he feels that way, and singing about it, i think, causes other people, esp impressionable young people, to adopt his mentality.

When I was first in college (1977-1981) I found Billy Joel to be excellent music to seduce chicks by, especially Catholic ones.

Catholic girls away at college already are a bit rebellious and experimental. Where I disagree with Joel is that Catholic girls generally didn’t start late enough, as I eventually came to believe. Bedding a Catholic girl – especially those who go to fraternity parties and brag about their virginity – was not usually a particular challenge. The bonus from a guy’s point of view is that Catholic girls often don’t make us wear condoms like protestants and athiests because that would be advance planning and therefore mortal sin.

All that said, I have to give Joel some credit for the line about “laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints.” Here I don’t believe (and didn’t at the time) that he was talking about actual saints, but holier-than-thou types who seem to think they are saints because they look down upon others and judge them.

Alan

 

[MooCowSteph]

I don’t know enough Billy Joel songs to say he is or isn’t anti-Catholic, but I can say that these lyrics are not offensive to me…they do not speak badly of the Catholic faith; they speak badly of perverted men who try to take advantage of young girls. Now maybe that offends you, but that has nothing to do with Billy Joel being anti-Catholic. there are scores of songs with lyrics that are equally or much more offensive than this one…

 

[wabrams]

Shinobu:

About the Pina Colada song, am I incorrect in my assumption that that song is basically about a married couple who are unahppy with their marriage so they put a personal ad in the newspaper with the thoughts of having an affair only to meet the person and find out it is their significant other and then they are all like “ah it’s you!” and are all happy and dance around even though the two were contemplating cheating?

What a fluffy happy love song lol

That whole song is about how the harder we try to find something, the more in becomes clear the answer is right in front of us.

 

[LoneRanger]

here are the lyrics… i don’t care much for them either…

Come out Virginia, don’t let me wait
You Catholic girls start much too late
aw But sooner or later it comes down to fate
I might as well be the one

They showed you a statue, told you to pray
They built you a temple and locked you away
But they never told you the price that you pay
For things that you might have done…
Only the good die young
thats what i said
only the good die young x2

You might have heard I run with a dangerous crowd
We ain’t too pretty we ain’t too proud
We might be laughing a bit too loud
aw But that never hurt no one

So come on Virginia show me a sign
Send up a signal I’ll throw you the line
The stained-glass curtain you’re hiding behind
Never lets in the sun
Darlin’ only the good die young
(woah x5 )
i tell ya
only the good die young x2

You got a nice white dress and a party on your confirmation
You got a brand new soul
mmmm, And a cross of gold
But Virginia they didn’t give you quite enough information
You didn’t count on me
When you were counting on your rosary
(oh woah woah)

They say there’s a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it’s better but I say it ain’t
I’d rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the Sinners are much more fun…

you know that only the good die young
oh woah baby
i tell ya
only the good die young, X2

You say your mother told you all that I could give you was a reputation
Aww She never cared for me
But did she ever say a prayer for me? oh woah woah

come out come out come out virgina dont let me wait,
the catholic girls start much too late
sooner or later it comes down to fate
i might as well be the one,
u know that only the good die young

im telling u baby
only the good die young X2
only the gooooooooooooooood
only the good die young
only the gooooooooooooooood
only the good die young
ooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooo oooooooooo…

 

[wabrams]

Has any stopped and thought that this song was written about someone he knew in his youth? There are more songs out there than you can count about people doing screwed up things, then the artist comes out at some point and says the song was about someone they knew or grew up with. Dave Mathews is a prime example. Alot of his songs at first sound pretty weird, but when he did Storytellers, they took on a new meaning.

 

[psychemusic]

2shelbys:

Spiritual nosiness? Where I grew up, “nosiness” meant trying to find out things you had no business knowing. Commenting on the fact that making angry, hateful, sometimes violent remarks in a public forum (or anywhere else for that matter) is not particularly in line with Catholic teaching has nothing to do with “nosiness”. If you think that I am wrong about this just ask your Pastor what he thinks about punching people in the face or calling them scumbags and let me know what he says.

For the record, although I do like a lot of Billy’s material, he is far from my “favorite” musician ( I am more of a “progressive” classical music-influenced rock guy), that is not why I seemed to be defending him. I was merely pointing out that no reasonable person would insist that their interpretation of any song’s lyrics are exactly what the composer had in mind. I’ll give you two extreme examples of two “evil” sounding songs from notoriously “evil” rock bands: the song “Children of the Grave” by Black Sabbath, and “Creeping Death” by Metallica. If you read the lyrics of these two songs you find that “Children of the Grave” is an anti-war, anti-nuclear proliferation song and “Creeping Death” is actually about the Passover and God’s retribution against the Pharoh for the enslavement of the Jews. I am certainly not putting those two bands up as Christian role models by any means, far from it, I’m just pointing out that not everything is what it seems, and not all musicians are simple, one-track-minded people. Besides, we shouldn’t look to musicians or any other entertainers to be role models anyway, all we should worry about is trying to be good Catholic role models ourselves. Life is too short to spend valuable time looking for things to be offended by and complaining about them. I’ll leave that to the liberals who invented such behaviour and who seem to love it so much.

Spiritual “nosiness” means, in this case, pretending to know when another Catholic needs to visit his confessor, which is putting one’s nose into another person’s heart. And *spiritual condescention *occurs when one tries to shame a whole group of people for the remarks of only a couple.

Since you still remain convinced that this is only the narrow-minded Catholic’s opinion of the song, I invite you to a couple of alternate sites:

Steve and Abe’s Record Reviews:

And, I must say, Billy’s lyrics are really well-written slabs of superior attitude. “Just the Way You Are” is a chauvinist keep-the-woman-in-her-place diatribe disguised as a serenade by the gently arcing melody and the unctuous saxophone, but it’s a convincing chauvinist keep-the-woman-in-her-place diatribe. Unlike most of the misogynist rants coming from your average metal or punk band, which actually just sound like the ravings of desperately lonely guys, you really get the sense that Billy doesn’t think his lover can better herself.
“Only the Good Die Young” may be an insultingly anti-Catholic diatribe, but it’s a well-reasoned insultingly anti-Catholic diatribe; unlike your average religion baiter who still brings up the Inquisition or some other irrelevant historical atrocity, Joel takes on current Catholic values and explicitly rejects them. If you’ve got to put someone down, this is the way to do it.

Billy Joel: The Nylon Curtain - PopMatters Music Review:

Yet even at that point, he was the target of much flak, taking heat from the Catholic Church thanks to his tongue-in-cheek smash “Only the Good Die Young”. He was labeled as a sexist for the lyrics of another hit single, “She’s Always a Woman”, and branded once again with the same charges for 52nd Street’s “Big Shot”.

Life is too short to spend looking for reasons to be offended, yes. But that is no argument for not knowing what we’re really listening to, and which artists we ought to support with our money. I, personally, will never purchase a Billy Joel album, because I know now that he doesn’t mind bashing my faith, not to mention my sex.

Sorry. You cross that line, you lose my respect and my support. Even if it is only one or two songs.

 

[MooCowSteph]

psychemusic:

Life is too short to spend looking for reasons to be offended, yes. But that is no argument for not knowing what we’re really listening to, and which artists we ought to support with our money. I, personally, will never purchase a Billy Joel album, because I know now that he doesn’t mind bashing my faith, not to mention my sex.

Sorry. You cross that line, you lose my respect and my support. Even if it is only one or two songs.

I agree…we shouldn’t spend our money on things opposed to our religion…the problems come when the majority in the entertainment industry are opposed to Christianity.

 

[surfinpure]

2shelbys:

Spiritual nosiness? Where I grew up, “nosiness” meant trying to find out things you had no business knowing. Commenting on the fact that making angry, hateful, sometimes violent remarks in a public forum (or anywhere else for that matter) is not particularly in line with Catholic teaching has nothing to do with “nosiness”. If you think that I am wrong about this just ask your Pastor what he thinks about punching people in the face or calling them scumbags and let me know what he says.

For the record, although I do like a lot of Billy’s material, he is far from my “favorite” musician ( I am more of a “progressive” classical music-influenced rock guy), that is not why I seemed to be defending him. I was merely pointing out that no reasonable person would insist that their interpretation of any song’s lyrics are exactly what the composer had in mind. I’ll give you two extreme examples of two “evil” sounding songs from notoriously “evil” rock bands: the song “Children of the Grave” by Black Sabbath, and “Creeping Death” by Metallica. If you read the lyrics of these two songs you find that “Children of the Grave” is an anti-war, anti-nuclear proliferation song and “Creeping Death” is actually about the Passover and God’s retribution against the Pharoh for the enslavement of the Jews. I am certainly not putting those two bands up as Christian role models by any means, far from it, I’m just pointing out that not everything is what it seems, and not all musicians are simple, one-track-minded people. Besides, we shouldn’t look to musicians or any other entertainers to be role models anyway, all we should worry about is trying to be good Catholic role models ourselves. Life is too short to spend valuable time looking for things to be offended by and complaining about them. I’ll leave that to the liberals who invented such behaviour and who seem to love it so much.

Spiritual “nosiness” means, in this case, pretending to know when another Catholic needs to visit his confessor, which is putting one’s nose into another person’s heart. And *spiritual condescention *occurs when one tries to shame a whole group of people for the remarks of only a couple.

Since you still remain convinced that this is only the narrow-minded Catholic’s opinion of the song, I invite you to a couple of alternate sites:

Steve and Abe’s Record Reviews:

And, I must say, Billy’s lyrics are really well-written slabs of superior attitude. “Just the Way You Are” is a chauvinist keep-the-woman-in-her-place diatribe disguised as a serenade by the gently arcing melody and the unctuous saxophone, but it’s a convincing chauvinist keep-the-woman-in-her-place diatribe. Unlike most of the misogynist rants coming from your average metal or punk band, which actually just sound like the ravings of desperately lonely guys, you really get the sense that Billy doesn’t think his lover can better herself.
“Only the Good Die Young” may be an insultingly anti-Catholic diatribe, but it’s a well-reasoned insultingly anti-Catholic diatribe; unlike your average religion baiter who still brings up the Inquisition or some other irrelevant historical atrocity, Joel takes on current Catholic values and explicitly rejects them. If you’ve got to put someone down, this is the way to do it.

Billy Joel: The Nylon Curtain - PopMatters Music Review:

Yet even at that point, he was the target of much flak, taking heat from the Catholic Church thanks to his tongue-in-cheek smash “Only the Good Die Young”. He was labeled as a sexist for the lyrics of another hit single, “She’s Always a Woman”, and branded once again with the same charges for 52nd Street’s “Big Shot”.

Life is too short to spend looking for reasons to be offended, yes. But that is no argument for not knowing what we’re really listening to, and which artists we ought to support with our money. I, personally, will never purchase a Billy Joel album, because I know now that he doesn’t mind bashing my faith, not to mention my sex.

Sorry. You cross that line, you lose my respect and my support. Even if it is only one or two songs.