W
wabrams
Guest
I hear what you’re saying, but you have to remember music has always been provocative. Everything from 1920’s jazz until today.
- Status
F
fix
Guest
Yes, to a degree that is true, but it is not true that so much of popular entertainment has always been so base. In ten to twenty years I predict many will be saying how so many thought Rap was a bad influence and laughing at how unenlightened we were today. It is a downward spiral.
P
phatrunt29
Guest
Thank you 2shelbys
For those who think i can not put words or thoughts or whatever it was you thought i was trying to place anywhere should think before they speak. I do not try to put anything where it doesn’t belong. I wrote that my dad knew him growing up because i was also raised in the music as was the majority of my family. And suprise surprise we all grew into well behaved, law abiding, religious people. so before you condemn the poor man did anybody realize that he grew up a block away from a catholic high school. He had many friends from Holy Trinity and did run around with a dangerous crowd. Anybody else know that somewhere in his young adult stage he attempted suicide but was rushed to a hospital. So before we Catholics raise our mighty voices to complain maybe we should look at and know all facts before we judge. you may find the music offensive but maybe these lyrics are just a way for him to let go of the pain he endured when he was younger. BTW there are many more facts and if you have ever watched VH1 before it became a whol lot of **** then maybe you saw the biography on him? Anyway who are we to judge another? Isn’t that the job of St. Peter and God?:clapping:
For those who think i can not put words or thoughts or whatever it was you thought i was trying to place anywhere should think before they speak. I do not try to put anything where it doesn’t belong. I wrote that my dad knew him growing up because i was also raised in the music as was the majority of my family. And suprise surprise we all grew into well behaved, law abiding, religious people. so before you condemn the poor man did anybody realize that he grew up a block away from a catholic high school. He had many friends from Holy Trinity and did run around with a dangerous crowd. Anybody else know that somewhere in his young adult stage he attempted suicide but was rushed to a hospital. So before we Catholics raise our mighty voices to complain maybe we should look at and know all facts before we judge. you may find the music offensive but maybe these lyrics are just a way for him to let go of the pain he endured when he was younger. BTW there are many more facts and if you have ever watched VH1 before it became a whol lot of **** then maybe you saw the biography on him? Anyway who are we to judge another? Isn’t that the job of St. Peter and God?:clapping:
S
surfinpure
Guest
First, a request: Please break up your posts with punctuation and paragraphs. This is very hard to read.
Second, I must reiterate and try to drive home the point: We’re not judging Billy Joel’s heart. Only God can do that, and no, Saint Peter cannot. However, we are not only free but obliged to judge the fruitfulness of song lyrics on our airwaves. We are called, by Scripture, to make judgments about what is holy and unholy.
Why would St. Paul tell us to expose works of darkness if we weren’t allowed to judge what a work of darkness is?
Again, how are we supposed to “drive out that wicked one” if we’re not allowed to determine his actions are wicked?
F
fix
Guest
I have no idea what his intentions are, but I can read the lyrics. We are called to judge and judge we should!
W
wabrams
Guest
surf(name removed by moderator)ure:
B/C he’s not apart of the Catholic Church. That’s what it says in 1 Corinthians 5:13.
S
surfinpure
Guest
I assume what you mean is “not a part,” rather than “not apart.” In either case, it doesn’t matter. I didn’t quote the verse to say we should expel him, I quoted it to demonstrate that God has enabled us to judge actions. Perhaps because of the nature of the verse that message is not clear to everyone.
Regardless, nowhere in Scripture or in Sacred Tradition are we forbidden to judge actions or “fruit.” Quite the opposite, in fact. We are urged to recognize sinful acts, and to eradicate them according to the situation. That is precisely what we are doing in the case of Billy Joel and his lyrics.
W
wabrams
Guest
surf(name removed by moderator)ure:
You’re right, I meant “a part.” but the verse said to judge those in the church.
S
surfinpure
Guest
*As I stated, *I know what the verse said. I was illustrating a different point entirely. The point, which I will yet again reiterate, is that we aretold to judge actions.
I notice you did not respond to the other verse I posted,
“Take no part in the fruitless works of darkness, but rather expose them.” (Ephesians 5:11)
Have you nothing to say on that subject?
J
jeffreedy789
Guest
so - surf(name removed by moderator)ure - couple the verses you’re naming with ‘let he who is without sin cast the first stone’ and ‘neither do i condemn you - go and sin no more’ and tell us what you get?
it’s very easy to point fingers and judge people (by the way - does billy joel go to your church?), especially those who don’t even call themselves christians.
it’s harder to make the changes in our own lives that we point out in other people’s.
tolstoy said ‘everyone thinks of changing the world. no one thinks of changing himself.’
it’s very easy to point fingers and judge people (by the way - does billy joel go to your church?), especially those who don’t even call themselves christians.
it’s harder to make the changes in our own lives that we point out in other people’s.
tolstoy said ‘everyone thinks of changing the world. no one thinks of changing himself.’
S
surfinpure
Guest
EXHASPERATED GROAN
Nobody is judging Billy Joel. That’s exactly the point. There is a HUGE difference in judging someone’s heart, which I have not done, and judging the lyrics of a song someone wrote, which I have. Based on the lyrics, which are clearly anti-Catholic, I say the song is unholy and undeserving of financial support.
The “making judgments” issue is, apparently, very foggy to very many people. Too often we hear “judge not lest you be judged,” without understanding that the verse talks about judging the heart of man, not his actions. If we truly aren’t supposed to judge the actions of people, why do we have a legal system? How do we keep criminals from getting away with crimes?
The idea of never judging an ACT smacks of moral relativism and leads to anarchy. Judgments have to be made about whether what is being done is right or wrong.
The most certainly IS a right and wrong. Do we all at least agree on that?
Again, and again, and again, let me stress, only God can judge a man’s heart. I would never pretend to do so.
I hope this clears things up.
W
wabrams
Guest
surf(name removed by moderator)ure said:
I hear what you are sayng. No need to get exasperated over it.
S
surfinpure
Guest
LOL. Too late. I believe I just lost my very last strand of hair.
W
wabrams
Guest
surf(name removed by moderator)ure:
I went back and read the verses before and after the one you quoted, and it seems to speak of those who do things in secret.
W
wabrams
Guest
surf(name removed by moderator)ure:
If you had wrote your “exasperated” post first (i.e. the content of it), I think it would have cleared everyhthing up immediately. But I know how it is to get the right words out at the right time, and sometimes it doesn’t quite happen!LOL. Too late. I believe I just lost my very last strand of hair.
S
surfinpure
Guest
Tell me about it! Seems I just chose the wrong verses for the occasion. But I’m not off my rocker, I swear. I just need a better concordance!If you had wrote your “exasperated” post first (i.e. the content of it), I think it would have cleared everyhthing up immediately. But I know how it is to get the right words out at the right time, and sometimes it doesn’t quite happen!
W
wabrams
Guest
surf(name removed by moderator)ure:
LOL, I know you’re not off your rocker!
S
surfinpure
Guest
Phew That was a close one.
I think I’ll give myself a break from the forums and go listen to something wholesome … like VeggieTales. LOL
L
Les_Richardson
Guest
Objectively yes, it is offensive.
However, if I had a teen-age daughter I would hand her the lyrics and point out to her, as a father, that this is one of the attitudes that she will find in the world. Anti-Catholic and anti-chaste. Perhaps I would point out that guys like this are one of the reasons the school uniform skirts go below the knee (before the girls hem them up).
I have no doubt that whether it was personal for Billy Joel or just social commentary of a time he remembered, there are guys that would consider it a great conquest to “make it” with a Catholic girl, because they are perceived as being chaste. That’s a good reputation to have!
It is axiomatic that those deep in debauchery or satisfying their lusts will try to drag down those who they perceive to be morally above them. A great example of that was the men of Sodom who came to Lot’s house trying to flush out the young men that had come to his home.
As for Billy Joel, I always considered him a good poet, which tends to attract me to a song, such as “Piano Man” or “Movin’ Out.” Personally, I recognize what his prejudices and beliefs are, and move on. Same thing with a guy like Jimmy Buffet. He has a talent for poetry, but he’s no friend of Christians.
But I suppose there are those who have trouble making the distinctions, and for their sake I can forego listening to either one. It would not be the end of the world for me. I would hate to cause someone else to stumble through my choice of music.
As to the good dying young, I suppose there is some truth in that. Jesus was only in his mid thirties when they crucified Him, something else I would point out to my daughter.
A
Almeria
Guest
I’m with ya, Les. I personally don’t care for OTGDY, and will change the station if it happens to come on. But I absolutely adore some of his other songs. His ballads that tell stories are wonderful. Songs like Allentown, Downeaster Alexa, Goodnight Saigon, Leningrad, and the Ballad of Billy the Kid are amazing. They remind me of the type of songs traveling minstrels would have sung centuries ago.
- Status