Is buying music from a pro-gay marriage musician sinful? This is really causing some distress

[BlueEyedLady]

Quit trying to rationalize what is an intent to mainstream the homosexual agenda. Employment, housing, and healthcare are not denied to homosexuals and are not a valid concern to anyone who claims to be pro-LGBT. There are many fabrications by this crowd to illustrate a discrimination that does not exist in an effort to get you to swallow whole, as an act of empathy, a deviant lifestyle. Apparently, you have swallowed it. Stop contributing to the enemy of souls.

Actually, I work in real estate and federal fair housing laws do not protect someone from discrimination based on sexual orientation. Many state laws do, but not in the state that I live in. Here it would be perfectly legal for me to say to someone that I knew was a homosexual “I’m sorry, but I can’t let you live here because we don’t want to sell/rent to gays”. Same with employment. If I found out that one of my agents was gay I could say to them “I’m sorry, but I can’t have a gay person working in my office, you’re fired.”

Granted, I wouldn’t because I’m a good person, but it would be perfectly legal for me to do so and it does happen all the time.

 

[Birdpreacher]

So do I have to throw away my Queen and Elton John CDs or not?

 

[Joe_5859]

I asked Michelle Arnold directly about this. Here was her response:
Michelle Arnold:

**Please forgive me for not having time to plow through the whole thread. I will only answer what stood out for me in your question and the thread.

In the OP’s original question, both the OP and the priest were not entirely correct. The OP was incorrect to say that one of the purposes of marriage is to be “in a monogamous, loving relationship” (that would justify same-sex marriage), and the priest left out the first purpose of matrimony, more important than even procreation (which may not happen for every married couple): to form the couple (and any children they may have) in sanctity.

The priest also was unfortunately dogmatic where the Church is not by claiming it to be sinful to buy music (or any other product) from someone who supports same-sex marriage (or any other immoral act). The Church simply doesn’t make such a claim and those who say it does should be asked to provide evidence to support that claim.

CCC 1868 cannot be pressed into service here. To buy music from someone who supports an immoral act is not direct participation in someone else’s sin. I would hesitate to say that it is even remote material participation if the music in question has nothing to do with same-sex marriage. If we take this assertion to its logical conclusion, then an argument could be made that Catholics should reject the artwork of Caravaggio**

and the plays of Christopher Marlowe. Even if they are no longer alive to reap financial rewards, patronage and study of their works lend them legitimacy and fame. (At least under this theory, which I hope can now be seen as risible).

The confessor the OP spoke with sounds like a good, well-meaning priest. Unfortunately, when good, well-meaning priests are not well-formed in moral theology or are willing to present their own preferences as the teaching of the Church, they can do much harm to souls (especially the scrupulous, who are all too desperate to trust them). St. Teresa of Avila once said in her book Way of Perfection:

Thanks for sharing that.

I think this is an area of thought where it is very, very easy for those prone to scrupulosity to spend way too much time agonizing over the details (when they could be praying! ).

What if the money I spend on a tube of toothpaste gives the cashier at Walmart, the truck driver of the supply truck, the quality control person at the toothpaste factory, the inventory clerk at the toothpaste company’s corporate office, and the cameraman for the the toothpaste company’s commercial just enough extra money to buy their daughters Lady Gaga’s “Born This Way” on iTunes, which leads those five girls down a secular, heathen path whereby they abandon all morals and come together to be the next five Lady Gaga’s in 10-20 years from now sowing their peculiar form of moral perversion to millions of unsuspecting fans the world over. And all because I had to buy that toothpaste!

 

[iHeartThe60s]

No, it isn’t necessarily a sin to buy music from artists who disagree with your rightly held viewpoints.

A great number of companies donate a small part of their profits to immoral organizations. Unless you will their donations, you do not sin by buying their products. It’s called “remote cooperation in evil” and permitted for a just reason. There’s generally no obligation to boycott here.

I’ve heard that before, but hearing it from others helps a lot. Thanks for responding

 

[iHeartThe60s]

I asked Michelle Arnold directly about this. Here was her response:
Michelle Arnold:

**Please forgive me for not having time to plow through the whole thread. I will only answer what stood out for me in your question and the thread.

In the OP’s original question, both the OP and the priest were not entirely correct. The OP was incorrect to say that one of the purposes of marriage is to be “in a monogamous, loving relationship” (that would justify same-sex marriage), and the priest left out the first purpose of matrimony, more important than even procreation (which may not happen for every married couple): to form the couple (and any children they may have) in sanctity.

The priest also was unfortunately dogmatic where the Church is not by claiming it to be sinful to buy music (or any other product) from someone who supports same-sex marriage (or any other immoral act). The Church simply doesn’t make such a claim and those who say it does should be asked to provide evidence to support that claim.

CCC 1868 cannot be pressed into service here. To buy music from someone who supports an immoral act is not direct participation in someone else’s sin. I would hesitate to say that it is even remote material participation if the music in question has nothing to do with same-sex marriage. If we take this assertion to its logical conclusion, then an argument could be made that Catholics should reject the artwork of Caravaggio**

and the plays of Christopher Marlowe. Even if they are no longer alive to reap financial rewards, patronage and study of their works lend them legitimacy and fame. (At least under this theory, which I hope can now be seen as risible).

The confessor the OP spoke with sounds like a good, well-meaning priest. Unfortunately, when good, well-meaning priests are not well-formed in moral theology or are willing to present their own preferences as the teaching of the Church, they can do much harm to souls (especially the scrupulous, who are all too desperate to trust them). St. Teresa of Avila once said in her book Way of Perfection:

Thank you so much for posting this (and, furthermore, for taking the time to ask her) I felt a great sigh of relief once I read it. And in all fairness I should have been more specific with my confessor and said a “heterosexual monogamous and loving relationship” is one reason for marriage (which she obviously meant by “to form a couple (and any children they have) in sanctity”). As careful as I try to be about what I say, I guess even the best of us slip up

Again, thank you so much and God Bless

 

[iHeartThe60s]

When you support the musician, you support his or her message, whether actively or passively. I believe that buying from artists who promote sin through their art is indeed sinful.

I’ve lost track of how many hundreds of dollars of CDs I’ve thrown away and deleted from iTunes since coming back to the Church. Even still, it can be difficult to get that music out of my head sometimes. If I’d known in the past what I know now, I would’ve never bought it.

Music should bring glory to God, not Satan and his minions.

Read Michelle Arnold’s response regarding this matter. It’s quite the opposite of what you believe to be true.

And please do not take this as an attack (as I sense you have a very tender conscience), but deleting and throwing away all of that music you bought sounds rather extreme I myself was tempted to remove almost all the music I had off of my iPod (save for artists I knew had not donated/supported sinful causes), but I felt it was irrational and decided to dig deeper by asking here.

Lastly, when I came back to the church earlier this year after about a year and a half of “lapsing” (so to speak) I thought just listening to music was sinful, but that was my anxiety and scrupulosity getting to me now I’m anxiously awaiting to unwrap the 20 vinyl LPs I asked Santa (aka my mom ) for Christmas

But again, please do read Ms. Arnold’s response that was posted on this thread several posts back.

Be at peace and God Bless

 

[iHeartThe60s]

Actually, I work in real estate and federal fair housing laws do not protect someone from discrimination based on sexual orientation. Many state laws do, but not in the state that I live in. Here it would be perfectly legal for me to say to someone that I knew was a homosexual “I’m sorry, but I can’t let you live here because we don’t want to sell/rent to gays”. Same with employment. If I found out that one of my agents was gay I could say to them “I’m sorry, but I can’t have a gay person working in my office, you’re fired.”

Granted, I wouldn’t because I’m a good person, but it would be perfectly legal for me to do so and it does happen all the time.

And I’m pretty sure the Church has declared that such discrimination is flat out wrong. That’s so discouraging to hear that some states actually allow such things to happen Thank goodness there are people such as yourself who don’t see eye to eye with such laws.

Keep up that attitude and God Bless

 

[iHeartThe60s]

So do I have to throw away my Queen and Elton John CDs or not?

According to Ms. Arnold’s post, not at all If you were to DIRECTLY contribute to a pro-gay marriage, abortion, etc. organization then you would be committing a sin. But kicking back and buying/listening to “Bohemian Rhapsody” or the first 11 minutes of the Goodbye Yellow Brick Road album (I’m sure you know which song I’m talking about ) is quite a different matter.

Enjoy your music, keep the faith, and God Bless

 

[Castello]

Michelle Arnold’s response regarding this matter. It’s quite the opposite of what you believe to be true.

Remember, Ms. Arnold is a lay person. As a good Catholic, I am certain she would advise you to follow what your Pastor told you about this question.

 

[LP4H]

Bro. Ignatius Mary’s response (which backs up Michelle Arnold’s answer):

saint-mike.org/qa/fs/viewanswer.asp?QID=2066

When it comes to music and how dangerous it can be, Bro. doesn’t go easy, either.

 

[iHeartThe60s]

Bro. Ignatius Mary’s response (which backs up Michelle Arnold’s answer):

saint-mike.org/qa/fs/viewanswer.asp?QID=2066

When it comes to music and how dangerous it can be, Bro. doesn’t go easy, either.

Thanks for posting that. That put me at ease some more You said he doesn’t go easy on such matters so his response really does say something. I found it interesting and ironic and so true to my own (what WAS a) dilemma that he mentioned the “being scrupulous” part. I guess it’s now a matter of shaking that off and not feeling the need to drive myself crazy all the time

Thank you again and God Bless

 

[bearer]

And please do not take this as an attack (as I sense you have a very tender conscience), but deleting and throwing away all of that music you bought sounds rather extreme I myself was tempted to remove almost all the music I had off of my iPod (save for artists I knew had not donated/supported sinful causes), but I felt it was irrational and decided to dig deeper by asking here.

Most of my past music collection consisted of bands like Bad Religion, Born Against, and Brother Inferior, to name a few punk bands, and Deicide, Kataklysm, and Slayer, to name a few metal bands. Most was at least anti-authoritarian and anti-religious, and some was bona fide devil music.

I can’t stand pop and mainstream music and never have. Nowadays I pretty much listen to obscure European techno and industrial, Christian metal, and Taizé.

I’ll look up Michelle’s answer. God bless you!

Edit:

Well, Michelle and I may just disagree here, but really it boils down to the music itself. Some songs glamorize or justify sin, which is what I had in mind in my post. That would be especially problematic if you were to play it so that others around you can hear it. Michelle mentioned that it may not even be material support of another’s sin to purchase or play music if the music doesn’t support same-sex marriage, but even so, the money you spend that go to the musician’s royalties or to others who financially support same-sex marriage or other sins potentially would be.

 

[bearer]

I also found a past reply of hers in the Ask an Apologist forum concerning then Cardinal Ratzinger’s writings on rock music:

Where can I read Cardinal Ratzinger’s views of rock music?

Here’s an excerpt from Liturgy and Church Music, published by Cardinal Ratzinger in 1986:

In a way which we could not imagine thirty years ago, music has become the decisive vehicle of a counter-religion and thus calls for a parting of the ways. Since rock music seeks release through liberation from the personality and its responsibility, it can be on the one hand precisely classified among the anarchic ideas of freedom which today predominate more openly in the West than in the East. But that is precisely why rock music is so completely antithetical to the Christian concept of redemption and freedom, indeed its exact opposite. Hence, music of this type must be excluded from the Church on principle, and not merely for aesthetic reasons, or because of restorative crankiness or historical inflexibility.

 

[iHeartThe60s]

I also found a past reply of hers in the Ask an Apologist forum concerning then Cardinal Ratzinger’s writings on rock music:

Where can I read Cardinal Ratzinger’s views of rock music?

Here’s an excerpt from Liturgy and Church Music, published by Cardinal Ratzinger in 1986:

Well, to be fair, not ALL rock music is counter-Catholic, promoting sin, etc. Gerry Rafferty and Paul Simon are prime examples But I can see his concern about stereotypical “rock music” in general. I also find it ironic that this was written in the 80s when the music scene IMO… well… had seen better days to say the least lol.

Regarding your previous post, the list of bands, types of music, etc. you listed cleared that up for me as to why you got rid of THAT much music. I’m personally more into the real old stuff (hence my username haha!) and almost all of it is morally neutral IMO though I do have a few tunes in my collection with some lyrics that do sound anti-Christian, etc. but I haven’t let it bother me much only because nothing like that can influence me enough to make me turn my back on my Catholic faith and I just ignore those words/don’t sing them out loud/make up my own to sing over

Also, look up that answer a couple of posts back by Bro. Ignatius Mary if you need another reference to supplement Ms. Arnold’s. It really made a whole lot of sense

God Bless

 

[bearer]

Well, to be fair, not ALL rock music is counter-Catholic, promoting sin, etc. Gerry Rafferty and Paul Simon are prime examples But I can see his concern about stereotypical “rock music” in general. I also find it ironic that this was written in the 80s when the music scene IMO… well… had seen better days to say the least lol.

Absolutely, and I also noted when he wrote that essay. I doubt he was a fan of rock, and was most likely referring to the mainstream rock on the radio, MTV, etc.

Regarding your previous post, the list of bands, types of music, etc. you listed cleared that up for me as to why you got rid of THAT much music. I’m personally more into the real old stuff (hence my username haha!) and almost all of it is morally neutral IMO though I do have a few tunes in my collection with some lyrics that do sound anti-Christian, etc. but I haven’t let it bother me much only because nothing like that can influence me enough to make me turn my back on my Catholic faith and I just ignore those words/don’t sing them out loud/make up my own to sing over

I see your point, but keep in mind that “rock n’ roll” was orginally a metaphor for sex. You’re right, some of the oldies are pretty benign, and each generation has some morally upright musicians, but it seems to me that music in general took a sharp turn for the worse starting in the ‘60s. And even if the music sounds OK, some of the musicians’ lifestyles were/are repulsive.

The key is really to investigate the musician and the music carefully. When it comes to art, it can often be near impossible to understand the true intent of the artist. But, other times, it’s pretty clear how moral or immoral something really is. And, when in doubt, better safe than sorry. I hope you can continue to rock out without offending the Lord.

Also, look up that answer a couple of posts back by Bro. Ignatius Mary if you need another reference to supplement Ms. Arnold’s. It really made a whole lot of sense

God Bless

I will! God bless you too!

 

[Zimm3r]

Imagine that next week your entire music collection - your CDs, your mp3s, your cassettes - albums and even 8 tracks - all of it will be listed in the parish bulletin. Your loved pastor, those kids you teach in CCD, the guys from Parish council, they will all read the list.

Now, what do you get rid of? What we buy, what we consume, reveals some of who we are and what we love.

Can’t really be apply to show anything as a sin just as something that is private.

Counter Example: Imagine you and your spouse’s sexual life was reveled in detail, you wouldn’t want people reading that either yet that doesn’t mean having sex is wrong.

 

[Castello]

Can’t really be apply to show anything as a sin just as something that is private.

Counter Example: Imagine you and your spouse’s sexual life was reveled in detail, you wouldn’t want people reading that either yet that doesn’t mean having sex is wrong.

Actually, sex is something that is to be done in a moral way. Immorality in our sex lives, be we married or not, will also be revealed at the general judgement. Best to live now the way you want to be seen and judged then.

 

[Joe_5859]

I also found a past reply of hers in the Ask an Apologist forum concerning then Cardinal Ratzinger’s writings on rock music:

Where can I read Cardinal Ratzinger’s views of rock music?

Here’s an excerpt from Liturgy and Church Music, published by Cardinal Ratzinger in 1986:

Also keep in mind that Cardinal Ratzinger is speaking here of music in the liturgy. I listen pretty much exclusively to heavy metal music, but I agree with him 100% that rock music has no place in the liturgy.