Is Byzantine and Ruthenian the same Church?

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XPICTIANOC said:
Слава Исусу Христосу

In Poland is ony one ruthenian parish we call it “slavic-biznantine rit” and it is under on latin bishop. Ukrainian church has own hierarchy with two bishops.

oh, and the main different is that parish in Kostomłoty (ruthenian) uses old slavic church language (as orthodox in Poland) and Ukrainian greek-catholic church uses ukrainian language.

kostomloty-parafia-unicka.siedlce.opoka.org.pl/parafia_e.htm

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Andrzej, is that you? Welcome, regardless of whether it is or not.

The parish to which you refer - Saint Nicetas the Martyr Church in Kostomloty - is the only extant parish of the civilly-suppressed Eparchy of Kholm. Saint Nicetas serves according to the Great Russian (Nikonian) Rescension, as I recollect, rather than the Little Russian or Ruthenian Rescension.

Many years,

Neil
 
Irish_Melkite said:
The parish to which you refer - Saint Nicetas the Martyr Church in Kostomloty - is the only extant parish of the civilly-suppressed Eparchy of Kholm. Saint Nicetas serves according to the Great Russian (Nikonian) Rescension, as I recollect, rather than the Little Russian or Ruthenian Rescension.
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I wonder how the cause of returning the cathedral is going?

It is high time that the cathedral be released to either the Orthodox in Poland, or the Byzantine Catholics. As it is the edifice should not be a Latin parish as long as there is an eastern community available to use it.
*
Michael*
 
Yes and No are both correct.

Not all Byzantine Catholics are Ruthenian by any stretch, Ukrainians and others are also Byzantine.

But in the US, a church which calls itself “Byzantine Catholic” is almost undoubtably a Ruthenian church.
 
Kielbasi said:
Yes and No are both correct.

Not all Byzantine Catholics are Ruthenian by any stretch, Ukrainians and others are also Byzantine.

But in the US, a church which calls itself “Byzantine Catholic” is almost undoubtably a Ruthenian church.
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Besides Ruthenian and Ukranian, which other Churches are Byzantine?
 
lak611 said:
Besides Ruthenian and Ukranian, which other Churches are Byzantine?
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Well in Cleveland you have St. Nicholas on Superior Ave which is Croatian and in Solon St. John the Baptist which is Hungarian and they are Byzantine Catholic churches:thumbsup:
 
rutheanian
ukrainian
slovakian
hungarian
albanian
serbian
romanian
croatian
bulgarian
is too greek but without hierarchy like georgian
and melkit
 
lak611 said:
Besides Ruthenian and Ukranian, which other Churches are Byzantine?
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The 14 Churches sui iuris which are of the Byzantine Rite are:

Albanian Greek-Catholic
Belarusian Greek-Catholic
Bulgarian Greek-Catholic
Croat Greek-Catholic
Georgian Greek-Catholic
Greek Byzantine Catholic
Hungarian Greek-Catholic
Italo-Greek-Albanian Byzantine Catholic
Melkite Greek-Catholic
Romanian Greek-Catholic
Russian Greek-Catholic
Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic
Slovak Greek-Catholic
Ukrainian Greek-Catholic

Additionally, there are Macedonian (of non-Greek ethnicity), Montenegron, and Serbian Greek-Catholics ascribed to the Croat Greek-Catholic Church and Czech Greek-Catholics ascribed to the Ruthenian Byzantine Church; however, none of those are themselves designated as of a distinct Church sui iuris

Of the 14, the Italo-Greico-Albanian, Melkite, Romanian, Russian, Ruthenian, and Ukrainian Churches actually have a formal presence (either a canonical jurisdiction or a parish) in the US.

There are ethnically Croat, Hungarian, and Slovak parishes within the Ruthenian Church in the US, as the Ruthenians are charged with the pastoral care of those Greek-Catholics - but I believe that only Saint Nicholas the Wonderworker parish in Cleveland formally descends from a canonical presence in the US of any of those Churches. (It was one of two parishes in the US formally erected by the Eparchy of Krivezci; the other, Ss Peter & Paul in Chicago, memory eternal, was canonically suppressed two decades ago).

The sole Belarusian Greek-Catholic parish in the US (Christ the Redeemer, memory eternal) was in Chicago and was canonically suppressed a few years ago.

For a full schematic and narrative description of the Rites and Churches, formerly available here in the now-archived Reference Threads, see

Eastern & Oriental Catholic Churches and Rites at OC.net

Many years,

Neil
 
Hesychios said:
I wonder how the cause of returning the cathedral is going?

It is high time that the cathedral be released to either the Orthodox in Poland, or the Byzantine Catholics. As it is the edifice should not be a Latin parish as long as there is an eastern community available to use it.
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XPICTIANOC said:
what do you mean?
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Helo XPICT,

I realize that you alrerady know much of what I will post here, but for the benefit of others I will be a bitt more elaborate in my response…

Chelm was a diocese of the Orthodox church from circa 1237AD under the reign of prince Danylo of Halych. In 1596 the bishop and diocese came into communion with the Roman Catholic church through the Union of Brest. In 1875AD the bishop and diocese came into communion with the Moscow patriarchate.

With Polish independence (circa 1919-1921) both the Eastern Catholic and Orthodox churches (each having been in a period of decline in local membership through expulsions) saw much of their property seized, and often (but not always) handed over to the Roman Catholic church.
The abolition of the Uniate Church in 1875 and the encapsulation of Orthodoxy in a Russian linguistic and cultural shell resulted in a final and irrevocable split in the Ukrainian community in Kholmshchyna and Pidliashshia beyond the Buh. When the so- called Tolerance Decree was issued in 1905, a large number of formally Orthodox former Uniates joined or were forced by Polish landlords to join Roman Catholic parishes (60 percent in Southern Pidliashshia and 20 percent in Kholmshchyna). Even though to this very day the older generations of Catholic peasants speak Ukrainian in many villages, especially those in Pidliashshia, the religious and political factor overwhelmed the ethnic factor, and the basis for the Ukrainian national movement, which started to flourish after 1905, was formed almost exclusively of Orthodox. At the time this community was estimated at a little over 300,000 (close to 80,000 in Southern Pidliashshia and 230,000 in Kholmshchyna).

World War I, the 1915 evacuation of the Orthodox population to Russia, as well as the activity of the Roman Catholic clergy and Polish government, which took over Orthodox churches in Kholmshchyna and Pidliashshia, struck further blows. Whereas before 1915 there were 416 active Orthodox churches on this territory, only 76 remained by late 1929. The remaining churches were destroyed (35), turned into Roman Catholic churches (164), dismantled (30), adapted to serve nonreligious purposes (19), or simply boarded up (92). In 1938, parish or affiliated churches without administrative permits and other premises used by the population for religious purposes were dismantled on administrative orders.

The Nativity of the Virgin Mary Cathedral on Kholm Hill shared in the fate of this land and its Ukrainian population. After the Uniate Church was abolished in 1875, the cathedral was remodeled according to Eastern church canons. Photographs from this period show a multistory iconostasis and murals. The cathedral’s facade was rebuilt to match church architecture in so-called Western Russia. A belfry was built next to it in 1878. In 1915 the Austrian army took over the cathedral and used it to store weapons and ammunition. In 1919 the Polish government handed the cathedral over to the Roman Catholic Church as post-Uniate, and hence Catholic, property, and its former baroque appearance was recreated.
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It seems to me that both the Polish Orthodox and the Ukrainian Greek Catholic churches have some kind of reasonable claim for restitution of the historic edifice and would like to see it returned. I know that there was some noise about that on the internet a few years ago.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/39/Chełm_Bazylika.jpg/220px-Che�%

It functions today as a parish of the Roman Catholic church.
 
Irish_Melkite said:
The 14 Churches sui iuris which are of the Byzantine Rite are:

Albanian Greek-Catholic
Belarusian Greek-Catholic
Bulgarian Greek-Catholic
Croat Greek-Catholic
Georgian Greek-Catholic
Greek Byzantine Catholic
Hungarian Greek-Catholic
Italo-Greek-Albanian Byzantine Catholic
Melkite Greek-Catholic
Romanian Greek-Catholic
Russian Greek-Catholic
Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic
Slovak Greek-Catholic
Ukrainian Greek-Catholic

Additionally, there are Macedonian (of non-Greek ethnicity), Montenegron, and Serbian Greek-Catholics ascribed to the Croat Greek-Catholic Church and Czech Greek-Catholics ascribed to the Ruthenian Byzantine Church; however, none of those are themselves designated as of a distinct Church sui iuris

Of the 14, the Italo-Greico-Albanian, Melkite, Romanian, Russian, Ruthenian, and Ukrainian Churches actually have a formal presence (either a canonical jurisdiction or a parish) in the US.

There are ethnically Croat, Hungarian, and Slovak parishes within the Ruthenian Church in the US, as the Ruthenians are charged with the pastoral care of those Greek-Catholics - but I believe that only Saint Nicholas the Wonderworker parish in Cleveland formally descends from a canonical presence in the US of any of those Churches. (It was one of two parishes in the US formally erected by the Eparchy of Krivezci; the other, Ss Peter & Paul in Chicago, memory eternal, was canonically suppressed two decades ago).

The sole Belarusian Greek-Catholic parish in the US (Christ the Redeemer, memory eternal) was in Chicago and was canonically suppressed a few years ago.

For a full schematic and narrative description of the Rites and Churches, formerly available here in the now-archived Reference Threads, see

Eastern & Oriental Catholic Churches and Rites at OC.net

Many years,

Neil
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Thank you! That was very helpful. 🙂
 
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