Is Capitalism unChristian?

[tonyrey]

The UN Committee on the Rights of Persons is investigating the suicides of disabled persons in the UK who have had their benefits cut by the Conservative government. Children have also died for the same reason:

theguardian.com/housing-network/2015/oct/16/homeless-children-dying-at-the-sharp-end-of-the-housing-crisis

Meanwhile the government’s policy of dismantling the Welfare State has led to private companies raking in immense profits:

telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11642267/How-nursing-agencies-making-billions-are-bleeding-the-NHS-dry.html

What is your opinion?

PS The Daily Telegraph usually supports the Conservatives - who have ensured that the richest 1% now own as much as the 55% poorest people in the UK…

newstatesman.com/life-and-society/2011/03/million-acres-land-ownership

 

[ahs]

It isn’t the system that is unchristian. It’s the corruption brought into it by sinful people (us). On the one hand, you have greed that will take advantage at any turn. On the other you have entitlement, where people feel they have a right to “things”…which also becomes greed, evidenced in that person’s willingness to end their life when things don’t go their way. It all, ALL of it, boils down to placing ourselves at the top and saying “ME”, instead of placing God at the top and saying, “Your Will be done, no matter what, and no matter how miserable I might think I am”.

 

[PumpkinCookie]

All forms of economy are “unChristian.”

Jesus did not come to give humanity a blueprint for a happy, stable, and prosperous civilization. He came as a harbinger of the apocalypse, which will surely be any day now.

He repeatedly and explicitly said we should not be concerned about providing for ourselves, and we should care neither about the past (“let the dead bury their dead”) nor the future (“Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own”).

Therefore go and sell all of your stuff and give it to the poor. Wander around outside preaching the gospel instead of worrying about the body. Discussing economics is clearly pointless since the end is imminent: within one generation!

just joking

 

[PumpkinCookie]

On a serious note, it is shameful and aggrieving that we have so much abundance and prosperity, and people still die from lack of shelter, clean water, and nutritious food. It is a burning indictment upon us, that the most vulnerable among us commit suicide because they feel so hopeless.

 

[mikekle]

I wonder about this sometimes, I have a feeling when Jesus returns, he is not going to think that highly of all these huge corporations and companies, who year after year, their profits are never enough, they always want MORE, they take advantage of Christmas for purely monetary reasons, they have teams of lawyers on call so they can squeeze as much profit as they possibly can, they only pay low level employees the ‘minimum wage’ by law, implying, if they could, they would pay less, in short, its all about the money, that is very definition of greed.

 

[Used2beSherryG]

NO.

 

[powerofk]

It isn’t the system that is unchristian. It’s the corruption brought into it by sinful people (us). On the one hand, you have greed that will take advantage at any turn. On the other you have entitlement, where people feel they have a right to “things”…which also becomes greed, evidenced in that person’s willingness to end their life when things don’t go their way. It all, ALL of it, boils down to placing ourselves at the top and saying “ME”, instead of placing God at the top and saying, “Your Will be done, no matter what, and no matter how miserable I might think I am”.

Right. Capitalism, in general, is the closest economic system that we have that is “morally neutral” in its philosophy - at least, it’s closer to morally neutral than full-blown Socialism (also known as Marxism/Communism). Full-blown Socialism makes a person a commodity of the State. But Capitalism is, pretty much, a morally neutral means to an end. If the end that the person seeks is wealth for its own sake, not caring about the welfare of his or her employees nor about what ethical lines that could be crossed in the name of profit, then it has been used for a morally evil end. However, if a business person wishes simply to be able to take care of the needs of his/her family, and then uses the rest to give his/her employees good wages and benefits and also to help promote the Gospel message and help those who are in most need in one’s community, then he/she is using Capitalism for good ends.

 

[tonyrey]

It isn’t the system that is unchristian. It’s the corruption brought into it by sinful people (us). On the one hand, you have greed that will take advantage at any turn. On the other you have entitlement, where people feel they have a right to “things”…which also becomes greed, evidenced in that person’s willingness to end their life when things don’t go their way. It all, ALL of it, boils down to placing ourselves at the top and saying “ME”, instead of placing God at the top and saying, “Your Will be done, no matter what, and no matter how miserable I might think I am”.

Disabled and other afflicted people who cannot work are entitled to help from those who can afford to help them. Jesus said:

“All things therefore whatsoever you would that men should do to you, do you also to them.” Matt 7:12.

Those who committed suicide were in despair because they didn’t know how they could cope with less income. In the winter many people have to choose between eating and heating in the UK, one of the wealthiest countries in the world…

 

[SuperLuigi]

If you mean Western capitalism in the sense of individual liberty in the marketplace without unnecessary government intereference in the free market, well, it’s just riding the tide of natural law.

It is important that those who do not benefit or cannot particpate in the free market are cared for.

Conservative commentator Glenn Beck has noted the concept of “capitalism with a conscience”, which would seem to be on par with the Catechism expectation of the free market.

I will note that Roman Catholicism specifically calls out central planning, communism and socialism as very problematic, and the results are in on that as well.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Disabled and other afflicted people who cannot work are entitled to help from those who can afford to help them. Jesus said:

“All things therefore whatsoever you would that men should do to you, do you also to them.” Matt 7:12.

I agree. But I also think that private charity would almost always, if not always, be the most effective means.

 

[SuperLuigi]

=PumpkinCookie;13605333]On a serious note, it is shameful and aggrieving that we have so much abundance and prosperity,

I see these things a blessing that are to be managed according to one’s vocation.

and people still die from lack of shelter, clean water, and nutritious food. It is a burning indictment upon us, that the most vulnerable among us commit suicide because they feel so hopeless.

Actually, I would say that suicide is more related to psychological problems and a culture that celebrates :bighanky: :crying: feeling sad and self-pity. In fact, I’m not aware of anyone committing suicide (the intentional taking of their own life) because they simply didn’t have enough

I would bet that suicide is a much greater problem in the First World. You may be surprised at how humble, grateful, faithful and even generous poor people are.

 

[tonyrey]

All forms of economy are “unChristian.”

Jesus did not come to give humanity a blueprint for a happy, stable, and prosperous civilization. He came as a harbinger of the apocalypse, which will surely be any day now.

He repeatedly and explicitly said we should not be concerned about providing for ourselves, and we should care neither about the past (“let the dead bury their dead”) nor the future (“Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own”).

Therefore go and sell all of your stuff and give it to the poor. Wander around outside preaching the gospel instead of worrying about the body. Discussing economics is clearly pointless since the end is imminent: within one generation!

just joking

Jesus clearly said that only the Father knows when the end of the world will come. The question remains:

Should people amass wealth at the expense of others?

 

[tonyrey]

If you mean Western capitalism in the sense of individual liberty in the marketplace without unnecessary government intereference in the free market, well, it’s just riding the tide of natural law.

It is important that those who do not benefit or cannot particpate in the free market are cared for.

Conservative commentator Glenn Beck has noted the concept of “capitalism with a conscience”, which would seem to be on par with the Catechism expectation of the free market.

I will note that Roman Catholicism specifically calls out central planning, communism and socialism as very problematic, and the results are in on that as well.

I’m sure the Church doesn’t condone a state with plutocrats and paupers!

 

[Adonia]

No. It offers mankind the best hope for upward mobility and liberty. All we have to do is look how successful our nation has become in so short a time. Sure the big industrialists made lots of money, but they also helped out the nation as a whole. Plus, capitalism gives the little guy with the better idea a chance to make it. Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerburg could not have done what they did under a planned economy run by the state - it’s as simple as that.

 

[Adonia]

Jesus clearly said that only the Father knows when the end of the world will come. The question remains:

Should people amass wealth at the expense of others?

Yes. because this wealth allows them to invest in other businesses and create jobs that would never have existed. Plus, most of the super rich have charitable endeavors and that help others.

For example, I have a friend who has a considerable amount of money earned through a business he ran for many years and he lent me some of that money to buy a piece of property. After paying him back (with interest) I now own that property and it has risen in value since I bought it. This has resulted in me paying additional taxes to the city and state who in turn uses that money to make other citizen’s lives better. Plus, my personal net wealth has also increased, so do you really think that all that which has happened as somehow wrong or immoral?

 

[commenter]

Almost every agency that complains about big corporations supports bigger government - but big government is a big corporation too, the biggest of all. Big government and big business are not rivals, they go hand in hand.

Catholic Social Teaching is based on Distributism. Consult what G. K. Chesterton and Hilary Belloc said about it. Essentially it means starting with the family; anything has to be developed so as not to harm that, and to build on its strengths. Self employment is encouraged as much as possible. When an enterprise requires many workers - say factory - let the workers own the factory themselves. Let this factory be independent of other factories.

 

[Adonia]

Disabled and other afflicted people who cannot work are entitled to help from those who can afford to help them. Jesus said:

“All things therefore whatsoever you would that men should do to you, do you also to them.” Matt 7:12.

Those who committed suicide were in despair because they didn’t know how they could cope with less income. In the winter many people have to choose between eating and heating in the UK, one of the wealthiest countries in the world…

Money should not be taken by governments from some people to give to others - that is not charity, but theft. You have no right to unilaterally take the fruits of my labor and give them to someone else who will not carry their own weight. I have read story after story in the UK Daily Mail of perfectly healthy people on the dole - such a thing is wrong, just plain wrong.

As for charity, the kind of charity Jesus talked about was the “free will” offering by the individual, not the “charity” taken at the point of the Roman (British or American) spear.

 

[Adonia]

I wonder about this sometimes, I have a feeling when Jesus returns, he is not going to think that highly of all these huge corporations and companies, who year after year, their profits are never enough, they always want MORE, they take advantage of Christmas for purely monetary reasons, they have teams of lawyers on call so they can squeeze as much profit as they possibly can, they only pay low level employees the ‘minimum wage’ by law, implying, if they could, they would pay less, in short, its all about the money, that is very definition of greed.

How many jobs have you created?

 

[tonyrey]

I agree. But I also think that private charity would almost always, if not always, be the most effective means.

The demand far exceeds the supply. In the last few years the number of people using food banks has increased to over a million a year.

 

[peter26]

It basically depends on what you mean by “capitalism”. Unfettered capitalism where people can do what they like to make money with no sense of social responsibility? Very unChristian. The mere concept of making profit? Nothing wrong with that.