Is Capitalism unChristian?

[tonyrey]

On a serious note, it is shameful and aggrieving that we have so much abundance and prosperity, and people still die from lack of shelter, clean water, and nutritious food. It is a burning indictment upon us, that the most vulnerable among us commit suicide because they feel so hopeless.

I entirely agree. There are wealthy people who help those in need but others do nothing. Otherwise the rich wouldn’t be getting richer at the expense of the poor. In the UK Amazon are notorious for paying hardly any tax…

 

[tonyrey]

If you mean Western capitalism in the sense of individual liberty in the marketplace without unnecessary government intereference in the free market, well, it’s just riding the tide of natural law.

It is important that those who do not benefit or cannot particpate in the free market are cared for.

Conservative commentator Glenn Beck has noted the concept of “capitalism with a conscience”, which would seem to be on par with the Catechism expectation of the free market.

I will note that Roman Catholicism specifically calls out central planning, communism and socialism as very problematic, and the results are in on that as well.

“Capitalism with a conscience” doesn’t seem to exist in the UK:

1. The national debt has doubled to over £1.5 trillion since the Tories came to power.
2. The NHS deficit has increased to £2billion - its worst financial crisis in a generation.
3. The richest 1% now own as much as the 55% poorest.
4. House prices and rents have increased far more than inflation.
5. Rich landowners are given a subsidy of more than £3.5 billion every year.
6. Private railway companies were given a subsidy of more than £1 billion in 2015.
7. Privatisation has enabled nursing and employment agencies to make immense profits.
8. The bank levy has been cancelled and corporation tax cut to 45%.
9. Tax evasion by multinational corporations and wealthy individuals continues unabated.
10. The discredited lobbying industry continues to flourish.
11. The UN is investigating the suicides of disabled people.
12. Children have died after being deprived of their benefits.
13. Many people lost their homes and businesses due to inadequate flood defences.
14. 18 million people cannot afford adequate housing.
15. 5.5 million people in UK are earning less than they need.
16. 2.5 million children live in damp properties.
17. 1.5 million children do not have proper food.
18. 1.85 million people are unemployed (3/4 million young people 16-24).
19. 1.7 million pensioners are living below the breadline.
20. 12 million people are too poor to have a social life.

labourleft.co.uk/david-camerons-100-biggest-failures-by-laboureoin/

The UK population was 64 million in 2013
NHS = National Health Service

 

[Adonia]

I entirely agree. There are wealthy people who help those in need but others do nothing. Otherwise the rich wouldn’t be getting richer at the expense of the poor. In the UK Amazon are notorious for paying hardly any tax…

What is this “at the expense of” business? Is it the poor’s money the rich are taking. or is it money that they have made themselves because of something they invented or a service they are providing? Hey, why don’t the “poor” just get up off their duff’s and make it themselves? Maybe they could get some education, find a trade, or something else that will be help them make a decent wage. I’m sorry, but I have no tolerance for people who sit around and complain and won’t do a thing to help themselves.

 

[dmar198]

Catholic Social Teaching is based on Distributism.

I think you got that a bit backward: distributism is based on Catholic social teaching. Catholic social teaching came first, distributism came later. Chesterton and Belloc developed distributism after reflecting on Catholic social teaching, and they explicitly based their system on the most recent documents from the magisterium on social issues. As far as I know, the Church has never praised distributism or even mentioned it, though it has praised one of the identifying characteristics of distributism: an economy that builds up small businesses. Distributism, in my understanding, is basically the idea that a nation should have an enormous number of small businesses and few large businesses.

 

[Adonia]

“Capitalism with a conscience” doesn’t seem to exist in the UK:

1. The national debt has doubled to over £1.5 trillion since the Tories came to power.
2. The NHS deficit has increased to £2billion - its worst financial crisis in a generation.
3. The richest 1% now own as much as the 55% poorest.
4. House prices and rents have increased far more than inflation.
5. Rich landowners are given a subsidy of more than £3.5 billion every year.
6. Private railway companies were given a subsidy of more than £1 billion in 2015.
7. Privatisation has enabled nursing and employment agencies to make immense profits.
8. The bank levy has been cancelled and corporation tax cut to 45%.
9. Tax evasion by multinational corporations and wealthy individuals continues unabated.
10. The discredited lobbying industry continues to flourish.
11. The UN is investigating the suicides of disabled people.
12. Children have died after being deprived of their benefits.
13. Many people lost their homes and businesses due to inadequate flood defences.
14. 18 million people cannot afford adequate housing.
15. 5.5 million people in UK are earning less than they need.
16. 2.5 million children live in damp properties.
17. 1.5 million children do not have proper food.
18. 1.85 million people are unemployed (3/4 million young people 16-24).
19. 1.7 million pensioners are living below the breadline.
20. 12 million people are too poor to have a social life.

labourleft.co.uk/david-camerons-100-biggest-failures-by-laboureoin/

The UK population was 64 million in 2013
NHS = National Health Service

Maybe if you people stopped letting in all the foreigners you would have had enough work for your native born citizens and money to pay the bills. I just read a story where from the street sweeper to the heights of business London is now made up mostly of foreigners. I think you can thank Labour for all that, no?

 

[SuperLuigi]

“Capitalism with a conscience” doesn’t seem to exist in the UK:

1. The national debt has doubled to over £1.5 trillion since the Tories came to power.
2. The NHS deficit has increased to £2billion - its worst financial crisis in a generation.
3. The richest 1% now own as much as the 55% poorest.
4. House prices and rents have increased far more than inflation.
5. Rich landowners are given a subsidy of more than £3.5 billion every year.
6. Private railway companies were given a subsidy of more than £1 billion in 2015.
7. Privatisation has enabled nursing and employment agencies to make immense profits.
8. The bank levy has been cancelled and corporation tax cut to 45%.
9. Tax evasion by multinational corporations and wealthy individuals continues unabated.
10. The discredited lobbying industry continues to flourish.
11. The UN is investigating the suicides of disabled people.
12. Children have died after being deprived of their benefits.
13. Many people lost their homes and businesses due to inadequate flood defences.
14. 18 million people cannot afford adequate housing.
15. 5.5 million people in UK are earning less than they need.
16. 2.5 million children live in damp properties.
17. 1.5 million children do not have proper food.
18. 1.85 million people are unemployed (3/4 million young people 16-24).
19. 1.7 million pensioners are living below the breadline.
20. 12 million people are too poor to have a social life.

labourleft.co.uk/david-camerons-100-biggest-failures-by-laboureoin/

The UK population was 64 million in 2013
NHS = National Health Service

Government subsidization and the universal health care are not free-market solutions.

Also, interesting partisan link that surely will blame PM Cameron for all the nation’s woes.

Part of the obstacle to being charitable are high taxes.

 

[decatholic]

Right. Capitalism, in general, is the closest economic system that we have that is “morally neutral” in its philosophy - at least, it’s closer to morally neutral than full-blown Socialism (also known as Marxism/Communism). Full-blown Socialism makes a person a commodity of the State. But Capitalism is, pretty much, a morally neutral means to an end. If the end that the person seeks is wealth for its own sake, not caring about the welfare of his or her employees nor about what ethical lines that could be crossed in the name of profit, then it has been used for a morally evil end. However, if a business person wishes simply to be able to take care of the needs of his/her family, and then uses the rest to give his/her employees good wages and benefits and also to help promote the Gospel message and help those who are in most need in one’s community, then he/she is using Capitalism for good ends.

Well said!

 

[decatholic]

Money should not be taken by governments from some people to give to others - that is not charity, but theft. You have no right to unilaterally take the fruits of my labor and give them to someone else who will not carry their own weight. I have read story after story in the UK Daily Mail of perfectly healthy people on the dole - such a thing is wrong, just plain wrong.

As for charity, the kind of charity Jesus talked about was the “free will” offering by the individual, not the “charity” taken at the point of the Roman (British or American) spear.

Adonia
Well said. Anytime a citizen gets something from the government, the same government took it from another citizen. That taking is theft not LOVE.

 

[tonyrey]

Money should not be taken by governments from some people to give to others - that is not charity, but theft. You have no right to unilaterally take the fruits of my labor and give them to someone else who will not carry their own weight. I have read story after story in the UK Daily Mail of perfectly healthy people on the dole - such a thing is wrong, just plain wrong.

As for charity, the kind of charity Jesus talked about was the “free will” offering by the individual, not the “charity” taken at the point of the Roman (British or American) spear.

The Daily Mail is notorious for its Tory propaganda, smear tactics and distortion of the facts. It doesn’t refer to the needless deprivation and suffering caused by the present government whose “austerity” policy is simply a cloak for the transfer of wealth from the State to private individuals and companies. One example is Emma Harrison who earned SIX MILLION POUNDS a year for organising schemes for unemployed people to work in supermarkets FOR NO PAY:

yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/20m-windfall-for-emma-harrison-as-she-exits-welfare-to-work-firm-a4e-1-7231725#ixzz3xFn8HQnk

 

[PumpkinCookie]

The Daily Mail is notorious for its Tory propaganda, smear tactics and distortion of the facts. It doesn’t refer to the needless deprivation and suffering caused by the present government whose “austerity” policy is simply a cloak for the transfer of wealth from the State to private individuals and companies. One example is Emma Harrison who earned SIX MILLION POUNDS a year for organising schemes for unemployed people to work in supermarkets FOR NO PAY:

yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/20m-windfall-for-emma-harrison-as-she-exits-welfare-to-work-firm-a4e-1-7231725#ixzz3xFn8HQnk

That’s enraging! Yes, “crony capitalism” is an assault on humanity.

 

[tonyrey]

Adonia
Well said. Anytime a citizen gets something from the government, the same government took it from another citizen. That taking is theft not LOVE.

Like Mrs Thatcher the present UK government is guilty of the sale of national assets to private individuals and companies, thereby dismantling the Welfare State for the their own benefit and that of their wealthy patrons. This is hardly surprising given that most of the Cabinet are millionaires. The rich rarely represent the poor…

 

[tonyrey]

That’s enraging! Yes, “crony capitalism” is an assault on humanity.

It amounts to sponsoring slave labour. Why should one woman get so much while her victims get nothing? And this is only one example of the capitalists’ stratagems… They inherit wealth, ensure they increase it for their heirs who will never have to work for a living or contribute to the welfare of the society in which they live. They even avoid paying taxes by using tax havens and wily accountants.

 

[tonyrey]

Adonia
Well said. Anytime a citizen gets something from the government, the same government took it from another citizen. That taking is theft not LOVE.

The theft is on the part of the government that defrauds the people they are supposed to represent. They abuse their power in every way they can they can to divert public funds to their families, patrons and supporters:

theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/12/lobbying-10-ways-corprations-influence-government

Greed is the name of the game!

 

[tonyrey]

Government subsidization and the universal health care are not free-market solutions.

 

[tonyrey]

Like Mrs Thatcher the present UK government is guilty of the sale of national assets to private individuals and companies, thereby dismantling the Welfare State for their own benefit and that of their wealthy patrons. This is hardly surprising given that most of the Cabinet are millionaires. The rich rarely represent the poor…

 

[tonyrey]

Maybe if you people stopped letting in all the foreigners you would have had enough work for your native born citizens and money to pay the bills. I just read a story where from the street sweeper to the heights of business London is now made up mostly of foreigners. I think you can thank Labour for all that, no?

The National Health Service would disintegrate without “the foreigners” who consist of highly trained doctors, nurses and ancillary staff. At least they work for a living unlike the wealthy who evade taxes and ensure rents and house prices steadily increase to maximise the value of their property. Most immigrants pay taxes and are vital for the economy. They also do essential work like street cleaning few British will do.

The root of the trouble is not immigrants without whom the economy of this country would collapse but the diabolical inequality the Tories have established since they came to power. 70 % of the UK is owned by less than 1% (.36%) of the population to whom the government give subsidies to keep their land off the market and increase the cost of property for everyone else. We are paying them with our taxes to make life more expensive for us:

newstatesman.com/life-and-society/2011/03/million-acres-land-ownership

 

[tonyrey]

I think you got that a bit backward: distributism is based on Catholic social teaching. Catholic social teaching came first, distributism came later. Chesterton and Belloc developed distributism after reflecting on Catholic social teaching, and they explicitly based their system on the most recent documents from the magisterium on social issues. As far as I know, the Church has never praised distributism or even mentioned it, though it has praised one of the identifying characteristics of distributism: an economy that builds up small businesses. Distributism, in my understanding, is basically the idea that a nation should have an enormous number of small businesses and few large businesses.

Indeed! Now the large businesses are ensuring that the small businesses go bankrupt so that they can monopolise trade and prices.The law of the jungle is alive and kicking in our so-called civilised society. That is why a third of the world’s population is desperately poor…

 

[Adonia]

The theft is on the part of the government that defrauds the people they are supposed to represent. They abuse their power in every way they can they can to divert public funds to their families, patrons and supporters:

theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/12/lobbying-10-ways-corprations-influence-government

Greed is the name of the game!

Yes, we here in America know all too well of what you speak, and the failure by those in power to abide by our constitution by is the main cause. Our present President has his own oligarchs that he always takes care of with the people’s money.

 

[Adonia]

The National Health Service would disintegrate without “the foreigners” who consist of highly trained doctors, nurses and ancillary staff. At least they work for a living unlike the wealthy who evade taxes and ensure rents and house prices steadily increase to maximise the value of their property. Most immigrants pay taxes and are vital for the economy. They also do essential work like street cleaning few British will do.

The root of the trouble is not immigrants without whom the economy of this country would collapse but the diabolical inequality the Tories have established since they came to power. 70 % of the UK is owned by less than 1% (.36%) of the population to whom the government give subsidies to keep their land off the market and increase the cost of property for everyone else. We are paying them with our taxes to make life more expensive for us:

newstatesman.com/life-and-society/2011/03/million-acres-land-ownership

No, the root of your troubles is the massive welfare society that Labour instituted, giving everything to everyone so that your average native born Englishman no longer wanted or had to work. So then of course you had the import all the foreigners to do the things that needed to be done.

 

[jschwartz]

In terms of how it is currently practiced, capitalism is absolutely incompatible with Christian ethics. Jesus came to liberate us from the evils of unbridled materialism and indulgence.