Is Capitalism unChristian?

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Love your story. mine is an echo. millions of people could give your witness as well. Regardless of your individual viewpoints of the best form of government, in a democracy you are free to work hard and make your own way. Whining is not a good career path.
For a Christian it also entails sharing with others and helping them to have the opportunities you have had - which many of them only dream of having. Through no fault of their own they are condemned to a life of poverty and deprivation until they die of disease or malnutrition or - like many of the refugees’ relatives - conflict they never caused or supported…
 
Is Capitalism unChristian?

We really do not know. Moreover, Capitalism may very well have been necessary in the past, but that does not mean it will not transform itself into something evil at a slightly different time period in the future. Something similar is now happening, I think. The hierarchical rankings of morals and values changing over time. Love is going to manifest itself as the most valuable value! When this happens, poverty will be quickly extinguished. The value of love is whats guiding Pope Francis; the hierarchical value of love needs to be refocused with our spiritual energy being placed this paramount value in today’s world.
I share your hope, Robert. He has already impressed many people - regardless of what they believe - with his humility, courage, love and compassion. He is not afraid to tell the truth wherever he goes in spite of the risks. It would only take one fanatic to kill him but like the murders of Archbishop Romero and Father Jerzy Popieluszko it would transform many people’s attitudes to Christianity. The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the Church…
 
For a Christian it also entails sharing with others and helping them to have the opportunities you have had - which many of them only dream of having. Through no fault of their own they are condemned to a life of poverty and deprivation until they die of disease or malnutrition or - like many of the refugees’ relatives - conflict they never caused or supported…
Can you give me examples to support your story. Most of us Christians also tithe, do ministries for our church and community, make donations for the wider world of those less fortunate, all from the resources we have received thru hard work and discipline and sacrifice. We would not be able to help others if we were not free to work for our selves in the capitalist system . Tell me how capitalism is so unjust, please explain further.
 
I get sick and tired of reading these capitalism bashing threads. You people seem to think that all those who have wealth either fell into it or stole it from someone else! Whether you’re Donald Trump, Rush Limbaugh or someone like Adonia posting on here who has his own big rig and has earned himself a comfortable living…who the hell am I or anybody else to say that they did it any other way but the hard way by working their absolute tails off? Capitalism un-Christian? Uh-huh. Do yourself a favor and do some research and take a real long hard look at Greece, Venezuela or Puerto Rico and see how unfettered socialism has strangled and killed them and then get back to me…because I’m beginning to believe that you’re living in La La Land!!!

Peace, Mark
 
Corporations are capitalistic on a universal scale. They are not subject to laws like individuals and companies. They can transfer wealth, evade taxation and influence national policies. To a large extent the law of the jungle dominates world trade and economic policies. The struggle for survival in a system dominated by rates of exchange and the transfer of large sums of money has already led to several financial crises. They demonstrate the need for regulation on an international scale but the main obstacle is corruption on the part of individuals, corporations, governments and UN organizations. Until there is universal agreement on an equitable distribution of wealth and strict control of the arms trade the world will not be liberated from the excesses of capitalism and socialism. Only the teaching of Christ can free us from the diabolical injustice that destroys so many people’s lives through no fault of their own.
Corporations are not an essential feature of capitalism and they exist in various economic systems. Just because you find them in the western democracies doesn’t mean they are essential. And as someone already pointed out the state is a corporation. So if corporations are evil then so is the state.

Corporations are subject to law and are in fact a product of the law. If you don’t like corporations blame the state. Oddly most folks who are against corporations, which are creations of the state, look to increased state power to fix the problem.

The arms trade is another interesting issue. Arms trading is very much a government controlled market. If you don’t like arms trading blame the western socialist democracies. They are the ones providing weapons to the world.
 
Amen! But that’s got nothing to do with capitalism or any other system. Capitalism doesn’t prevent anyone from giving to those in need. Greed does. And greed is not inherent in “a system”, it is a result of sinful people (us) taking advantage of anything and everything we can.
Another major problem is far too many people worry only about the greed of wealthy people. But greed is a sin manifested in people of all backgrounds and circumstances. Greed can in fact result in poverty. The common misreprentation of greed as something limited to successful people actually hinders progress against this sin.
 
Another major problem is far too many people worry only about the greed of wealthy people. But greed is a sin manifested in people of all backgrounds and circumstances. Greed can in fact result in poverty. The common misreprentation of greed as something limited to successful people actually hinders progress against this sin.
Amen to that! 👍
 
It isn’t the system that is unchristian. It’s the corruption brought into it by sinful people (us). On the one hand, you have greed that will take advantage at any turn. On the other you have entitlement, where people feel they have a right to “things”…which also becomes greed, evidenced in that person’s willingness to end their life when things don’t go their way. It all, ALL of it, boils down to placing ourselves at the top and saying “ME”, instead of placing God at the top and saying, “Your Will be done, no matter what, and no matter how miserable I might think I am”.
Agree 👍

There is nothing wrong about capitalism if one can let go of it as soon as the capital (energy) is required elsewhere that needs (energy) to survive. This is Christianity.
 
Corporations are not an essential feature of capitalism and they exist in various economic systems. Just because you find them in the western democracies doesn’t mean they are essential. And as someone already pointed out the state is a corporation. So if corporations are evil then so is the state.

Corporations are subject to law and are in fact a product of the law. If you don’t like corporations blame the state. Oddly most folks who are against corporations, which are creations of the state, look to increased state power to fix the problem.

The arms trade is another interesting issue. Arms trading is very much a government controlled market. If you don’t like arms trading blame the western socialist democracies. They are the ones providing weapons to the world.
Neither the US nor the UK are socialist democracies and both are leading arms exporters for the benefit of private companies.
 
Agree 👍

There is nothing wrong about capitalism if one can let go of it as soon as the capital (energy) is required elsewhere that needs (energy) to survive. This is Christianity.
70 % of the UK is owned by less than 1% (.36%) of the population to whom the government give subsidies to keep their land off the market and increase the cost of property for everyone else. We are paying them with our taxes to make life more expensive for us:

newstatesman.com/life-and-society/2011/03/million-acres-land-ownership
 
Unregulated capitalism is atrocious and vicious, having no place whatsoever in any humane or civilized society. Yet the same thing can be said of soviet-style totalitarian socialism. A third way is the best way.

Catholic social teaching to my mind seems most in accord with a social market economy, like exists in much of Europe and Scandinavian countries. Universal single-payer healthcare and tuition-free higher education, a large social safety net, a minimum wage in keeping with inflation and the cost of living, and workers rights, in tandem with an otherwise free market. The best of both capitalism and socialism working together for the common good. That is what we should all be advocating.

Only in America is this attitude of every man for himself so prevalent. It makes me want to puke hearing Christians spouting Ayn Rand talking points as if Atlas Shrugged was a book in the bible.
 
Neither the US nor the UK are socialist democracies and both are leading arms exporters for the benefit of private companies.
I think they are. They may not be purely socialist if by that you mean all capital is owned by the state. But in both countries there are things owned by the state. Besides that they are both welfare states with heavy regulation of the economy. I guess we need to more carefully define our terms.
 
Unregulated capitalism is atrocious and vicious, having no place whatsoever in any humane or civilized society. Yet the same thing can be said of soviet-style totalitarian socialism. A third way is the best way.

Catholic social teaching to my mind seems most in accord with a social market economy, like exists in much of Europe and Scandinavian countries. Universal single-payer healthcare and tuition-free higher education, a large social safety net, a minimum wage in keeping with inflation and the cost of living, and workers rights, in tandem with an otherwise free market. The best of both capitalism and socialism working together for the common good. That is what we should all be advocating.

Only in America is this attitude of every man for himself so prevalent. It makes me want to puke hearing Christians spouting Ayn Rand talking points as if Atlas Shrugged was a book in the bible.
I agree with you. An Italian friend of mine stayed in the US for two years, lost her job and had a very difficult time trying to get back to Europe where healthcare is usually free. She said life for poor people is very hard but perhaps it varies from one state to another…
 
I think they are. They may not be purely socialist if by that you mean all capital is owned by the state. But in both countries there are things owned by the state. Besides that they are both welfare states with heavy regulation of the economy. I guess we need to more carefully define our terms.
Things have changed drastically in the UK in the last five years - as I have pointed out in a previous post. Our welfare state is being rapidly dismantled by this Tory government and the NHS deficit has increased to £2billion - its worst financial crisis in a generation - which is precisely what they want to happen because it will be an excuse to sell it lock, stock and barrel to wealthy individuals and companies. Here the economy is indeed heavily regulated in favour of the rich who are given millions of pounds in subsidies because they happen to own large estates.The queen in particular is the richest person on this planet who owns land with an estimated value of $33 trillion!

whoownstheworld.com/about-the-book/largest-landowner/

Capitalism unlimited!
 
Corporations are not an essential feature of capitalism and they exist in various economic systems. Just because you find them in the western democracies doesn’t mean they are essential. And as someone already pointed out the state is a corporation. So if corporations are evil then so is the state.

Corporations are subject to law and are in fact a product of the law. If you don’t like corporations blame the state. Oddly most folks who are against corporations, which are creations of the state, look to increased state power to fix the problem.

The arms trade is another interesting issue. Arms trading is very much a government controlled market. If you don’t like arms trading blame the western socialist democracies. They are the ones providing weapons to the world.
If they have their way international corporations will soon be no longer subject to laws made by states. Already they can blackmail them by threatening to transfer their wealth elsewhere. Now they intend to become capable of suing states if things do not go their way!

independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-ttip-and-six-reasons-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html
 
Another major problem is far too many people worry only about the greed of wealthy people. But greed is a sin manifested in people of all backgrounds and circumstances. Greed can in fact result in poverty. The common misreprentation of greed as something limited to successful people actually hinders progress against this sin.
The greed of the wealthy has incomparably more devastating effects than that of the poor. The entire world is threatened by their lust for both power and wealth with the arms industry being one of their best sources of income. Yet the existence of nuclear weapons poses a constant threat to all of us without exception. The more numerous they are the higher the probability they will be used. Our ONLY guarantee of safety is the destruction of ALL nuclear weapons before they destroy us. They are not a deterrent for terrorists like ISIS for whom suicide is the swiftest way of reaching paradise! The only solution is the abolition of ALL nuclear weapons but of course it would be obstructed by the arms industry and their sponsors. Sanctions should be applied to every nation - including the US and UK - that refuses to participate in nuclear disarmament. Now that Iran has complied they have no excuse. Already a whistleblower has described the lack of security at Faslane submarine base in Scotland:

independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/royal-navy-investigates-trident-whistle-blower-william-mcneilly-who-claims-nuclear-programme-is-a-10256148.html

In this respect unbridled capitalism is not only unChristian; sooner or later it is self-destructive and destructive of all life on this planet…
 
No, capitalism isn’t un-Christian. When considering such things one must be careful about what he means by capitalism. In fact the specific consideration of this thread seems to not be capitalism but the British social welfare state. Captialism, it seems to me, is often defined as the current form of government, no matter how socialist it has become. So for instance the US government was capitalist before Social Security and after it. Of course that doesn’t really make sense. Western economies are really mixed economies.

It is better to consider capitalism as simply free markets. Free markets are without a doubt the best way to generate wealth. They by their nature allocate resources to those who are willing and able to work. In as much as it allocates wealth to those who are able to and do work it is very Christian. There is then the issue of those unable to work. Here capitalism could be said to fail. But it isn’t really a failure. It is just beyond the power of the system.

To systematically allocate resources to those unable to work you are going to have to involve some sort of coercion. You are going to have to take from some who have wealth and give to those that don’t. This is what all western governments do. They compell the productive to pay taxes which are redistributed to the poor. So the issue is simply not with capitalism. Capitalism is more the system which generates the wealth that is redistributed. The more capitalist an economy the more wealth it will have to redistribute.

Of course one problem is that the coercive laws that take from producers have an effect to alter the behavior of producers. This will result in less overall production.

Issues brought up such as corporate power are not intrinsic to capitalism. I think corporations in the US have far too many legal protections, rights and privileges. I think they benefit from corporate welfare. I believe capitalism to be the best economic system but I neither see the necessity nor the good of the US corporation as currently empowered.
International corporations are a threat to democracy because they can transfer their wealth to tax havens, disrupt a nation’s economy considerably and, if they get their way, even sue a nation for any losses they incur as the result of its policies.
 
Talking about “fairness” and “taxation” read this little gem:

snopes.com/business/taxes/howtaxes.asp

How Taxes Work . . .

This is a VERY simple way to understand the tax laws. Read on — it does make you think!!

Let’s put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand. Suppose that every day, ten men go out for dinner. The bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men — the poorest — would pay nothing; the fifth would pay $1, the sixth would pay $3, the seventh $7, the eighth $12, the ninth $18, and the tenth man — the richest — would pay $59.

That’s what they decided to do. The ten men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement — until one day, the owner threw them a curve (in tax language a tax cut).

“Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20.” So now dinner for the ten only cost $80.00.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free. But what about the other six — the paying customers? How could they divvy up the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his “fair share?”

The six men realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would end up being PAID to eat their meal. So the restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so the fifth man paid nothing, the sixth pitched in $2, the seventh paid $5, the eighth paid $9, the ninth paid $12, leaving the tenth man with a bill of $52 instead of his earlier $59. Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to eat for free.

But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. “I only got a dollar out of the $20,” declared the sixth man who pointed to the tenth. “But he got $7!”

“Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man, “I only saved a dollar, too … It’s unfair that he got seven times more than me!”.

“That’s true!” shouted the seventh man, “why should he get $7 back when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!”

“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison, “We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!”

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night he didn’t show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered, a little late what was very important. They were FIFTY-TWO DOLLARS short of paying the bill! Imagine that!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college instructors, is how the tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up at the table anymore.

Where would that leave the rest? Unfortunately, most taxing authorities anywhere cannot seem to grasp this rather straightforward logic!
 
And one more thing.

Q: What is the proper definition of democracy?
A: We speak of democracy, when two wolves and one sheep vote to decide what will be for dinner tonight!

Better remember it. 🙂
 
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