Is Capitalism unChristian?

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Transnational corporations are a serious threat to democracy because they can transfer their wealth to tax havens, disrupt a nation’s economy considerably and, if they get their way, even sue a nation for any losses they incur as the result of its goverment’s policies. How could a US corporation be disempowered if it transfers its wealth to tax havens? Economic factors impose a limit to what any government can do when faced with such immense wealth, the relocation of business and the prospect of considerable unemployment.
As far as transnational corporations are concerned, money doesn’t talk: it shouts and gives orders! Rupert Murdoch is an outstanding example of their power. Tony Blair visited him before he was elected Prime Minister, the present Prime Minister David Cameron meets him frequently and their discussions are not made public for obvious reasons:
Hidden Agendas is one of John Pilger’s most substantial and challenging books. It strips away the layers of deception, dissembling language and omission that prevent us from understanding how the world really works.
johnpilger.com/books/hidden-agendas

There is far more in the allocation and preservation of power and wealth in human society than meets the eye - and moral principles play no part unless they are used as a cloak for ulterior motives…
 
Talking about “fairness” and “taxation” read this little gem:

snopes.com/business/taxes/howtaxes.asp

How Taxes Work . . .

This is a VERY simple way to understand the tax laws. Read on — it does make you think!!

Let’s put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand. Suppose that every day, ten men go out for dinner. The bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men — the poorest — would pay nothing; the fifth would pay $1, the sixth would pay $3, the seventh $7, the eighth $12, the ninth $18, and the tenth man — the richest — would pay $59.

That’s what they decided to do. The ten men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement — until one day, the owner threw them a curve (in tax language a tax cut).

“Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20.” So now dinner for the ten only cost $80.00.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free. But what about the other six — the paying customers? How could they divvy up the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his “fair share?”

The six men realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would end up being PAID to eat their meal. So the restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so the fifth man paid nothing, the sixth pitched in $2, the seventh paid $5, the eighth paid $9, the ninth paid $12, leaving the tenth man with a bill of $52 instead of his earlier $59. Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to eat for free.

But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. “I only got a dollar out of the $20,” declared the sixth man who pointed to the tenth. “But he got $7!”

“Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man, “I only saved a dollar, too … It’s unfair that he got seven times more than me!”.

“That’s true!” shouted the seventh man, “why should he get $7 back when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!”

“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison, “We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!”

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night he didn’t show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered, a little late what was very important. They were FIFTY-TWO DOLLARS short of paying the bill! Imagine that!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college instructors, is how the tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up at the table anymore.

Where would that leave the rest? Unfortunately, most taxing authorities anywhere cannot seem to grasp this rather straightforward logic!
Cynical but entertaining with a grain of truth! 🙂
 
It basically depends on what you mean by “capitalism”. Unfettered capitalism where people can do what they like to make money with no sense of social responsibility? Very unChristian. The mere concept of making profit? Nothing wrong with that.
I agree with the proviso that the profit-making is not excessive (which is probably included in “with no sense of social responsibility” 🙂
 
And one more thing.

Q: What is the proper definition of democracy?
A: We speak of democracy, when two wolves and one sheep vote to decide what will be for dinner tonight!

Better remember it. 🙂
In other words the majority cannot always be trusted to choose what is best for everyone.
👍
 
Cynical but entertaining with a grain of truth! 🙂
Why is it cynical? It is a correct analogy. Now the numbers were based upon the US data, so in other countries they could be a somewhat different.
In other words the majority cannot always be trusted to choose what is best for everyone.
👍
That should not be a surprise.
 
It is not a question of envy but **compassion for all the people in the world who never **have the opportunity to escape from the poverty in which they are trapped from the moment they are born until the moment they die. Anyone who denies there is diabolical injustice and inequality on this planet is complicit by default. At the very least we should do our best to try to change people’s attitudes towards those who are less fortunate than ourselves instead of regarding our freedom to decide things for ourselves as the supreme priority. That excuse is precisely the reason why there is so much needless suffering. Like Jesus we should be prepared to renounce our own interests if that is the only way to liberate others from evil. Love demands self-sacrifice even it entails curtailing our liberty. The first Christians shared everything without asserting their right to independence and self-determination. They realised the Messiah hadn’t come to liberate them from the Romans - as they expected - but to liberate them from their slavery to themselves. They took Jesus at his word and followed His example even to the extent of suffering and dying, not for their race, nation or religion, but for all our brothers and sisters throughout the world. If we claim to be Christians that should be our supreme priority too.
Well then, you need to stop worrying about every big corporation or government entity that is doing stuff you don’t like and go out and help others as a Christian should. All your gobbledegook about wealth redistribution is not helping anyone. Forget the politics and give unto Caesar what is his and to God what is his. Helping your fellow human in some small way will go a lot further than all your whining about the rich.
 
Can you give me examples to support your story. Most of us Christians also tithe, do ministries for our church and community, make donations for the wider world of those less fortunate, all from the resources we have received thru hard work and discipline and sacrifice. We would not be able to help others if we were not free to work for our selves in the capitalist system . Tell me how capitalism is so unjust, please explain further.
Toneyrey is a big time leftist who sees evil in the system that has done more for the people on this planet than any other. His fellow leftists are not the ones who are making great breakthroughs in medical science or any other endeavor that helps humankind. A Bill Gates only thrives in a capitalist system, not some backward socialist nirvana.
 
I get sick and tired of reading these capitalism bashing threads. You people seem to think that all those who have wealth either fell into it or stole it from someone else! Whether you’re Donald Trump, Rush Limbaugh or someone like Adonia posting on here who has his own big rig and has earned himself a comfortable living…who the hell am I or anybody else to say that they did it any other way but the hard way by working their absolute tails off? Capitalism un-Christian? Uh-huh. Do yourself a favor and do some research and take a real long hard look at Greece, Venezuela or Puerto Rico and see how unfettered socialism has strangled and killed them and then get back to me…because I’m beginning to believe that you’re living in La La Land!!!

Peace, Mark
Thank you. People need an incentive to get up and go out and work everyday for what they want and only the capitalist system can do that. Socialism rewards those who do not want to carry their own weight at the expense of others, and here in America we can see that every day in the policies of the socialist Democrats. JFK is spinning in his grave at what has happened to the political party that he once belonged to.
 
Love your story. mine is an echo. millions of people could give your witness as well. Regardless of your individual viewpoints of the best form of government, in a democracy you are free to work hard and make your own way. Whining is not a good career path.
You are quite right, there are millions of us who have been able to do it. I thank God that I was born here with the type of constitution that we have and the capitalist system. All one has to do is to compare capitalism with any other system know to man and capitalism comes out on top.

All the socialist European countries have relied on us for decades for their military defense and just about every new innovation that has come down the pike. A Bill Gates could never come out of a socialist “paradise” like Sweden. It’s no wonder that people from all over the world still want to come here.
 
Why is it cynical? It is a correct analogy. Now the numbers were based upon the US data, so in other countries they could be a somewhat different.
I think comparing the majority of human beings to wolves is rather extremist!
 
You are quite right, there are millions of us who have been able to do it. I thank God that I was born here with the type of constitution that we have and the capitalist system. All one has to do is to compare capitalism with any other system know to man and capitalism comes out on top.

All the socialist European countries have relied on us for decades for their military defense and just about every new innovation that has come down the pike. A Bill Gates could never come out of a socialist “paradise” like Sweden. It’s no wonder that people from all over the world still want to come here.
Facts are more significant than opinions. Being the fourth richest nation with the highest prison population in the world and 20% of its citizens living in poverty is hardly a recommendation. Similar proportions apply to the UK under the Conservative government with the exception of the number of prisoners and the UN investigation into the violation of human rights of disabled people who have committed suicide after being deprived of their benefits…
 
Toneyrey is a big time leftist who sees evil in the system that has done more for the people on this planet than any other. His fellow leftists are not the ones who are making great breakthroughs in medical science or any other endeavor that helps humankind. A Bill Gates only thrives in a capitalist system, not some backward socialist nirvana.
An ad hominem weakens your case for unbridled capitalism. You obviously represent those who don’t belong to the 20% in poverty and have no compassion for those who do - which is certainly not a Christian attitude. If you ever fall on hard times - and no one is immune to misfortune - you will change your tune…
 
Thank you. People need an incentive to get up and go out and work everyday for what they want and only the capitalist system can do that. Socialism rewards those who do not want to carry their own weight at the expense of others, and here in America we can see that every day in the policies of the socialist Democrats. JFK is spinning in his grave at what has happened to the political party that he once belonged to.
You are assuming everyone has the **opportunity and the ability **to get up and go out and work - and even if they do very often their wages are pitifully low and unjust. Ever heard of zero hour contracts? And the self-employed who have no national insurance and do not earn enough to pay for private insurance? How do you justify that in your Utopia?
 
Well then, you need to stop worrying about every big corporation or government entity that is doing stuff you don’t like and go out and help others as a Christian should. All your gobbledegook about wealth redistribution is not helping anyone. Forget the politics and give unto Caesar what is his and to God what is his. Helping your fellow human in some small way will go a lot further than all your whining about the rich.
Your “small way” sums up your view perfectly. People cannot live on crumbs thrown to them by those who live in luxury. There is a parable about Dives and Lazarus…
 
Well then, you need to stop worrying about every big corporation or government entity that is doing stuff you don’t like and go out and help others as a Christian should. All your gobbledegook about wealth redistribution is not helping anyone. Forget the politics and give unto Caesar what is his and to God what is his. Helping your fellow human in some small way will go a lot further than all your whining about the rich.
The terms “gobbledegook” and “whining” not only commit the fallacy of petitio principii, they also violate the forum rule of courtesy and are certainly out of place on a Christian forum…
 
Sure she sold off all those assets and in the process created a middle class that Britain never had before. Here in America the goal of the Democrats is, despite what they say, the destruction of the middle class.
Mrs Thatcher encouraged poor people to buy houses and the consequent inflation led to house prices increasing and many people becoming victims of repossession and cheated of their aspirations. She destroyed entire communities when she sold off national assets. Understandably her victims cheered when she died… The present Tory government is following in her footsteps by exploiting the workers and increasing the wealth of the rich. Their privatisation policy is a cloak of austerity for the majority and prosperity for the minority. A select few are born rich, achieve riches and have riches thrust upon them while others struggle to survive.
 
I get sick and tired of reading these capitalism bashing threads. You people seem to think that all those who have wealth either fell into it or stole it from someone else! Whether you’re Donald Trump, Rush Limbaugh or someone like Adonia posting on here who has his own big rig and has earned himself a comfortable living…who the hell am I or anybody else to say that they did it any other way but the hard way by working their absolute tails off? Capitalism un-Christian? Uh-huh. Do yourself a favor and do some research and take a real long hard look at Greece, Venezuela or Puerto Rico and see how unfettered socialism has strangled and killed them and then get back to me…because I’m beginning to believe that you’re living in La La Land!!!

Peace, Mark
Hard work doesn’t justify the exploitation of people by those who succeed…
 
Can you give me examples to support your story. Most of us Christians also tithe, do ministries for our church and community, make donations for the wider world of those less fortunate, all from the resources we have received thru hard work and discipline and sacrifice. We would not be able to help others if we were not free to work for our selves in the capitalist system . Tell me how capitalism is so unjust, please explain further.
In a capitalist system many people lack the opportunity to work for themselves and even if they do they face an uphill battle against those who have power and wealth.

haaretz.com/world-news/1.546450

google.co.uk/search?q=how+rich+nations+exploit+developing+nations&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&meta=cr%3DcountryUK|countryGB&gws_rd=ssl

listverse.com/2014/02/14/10-shocking-ways-the-west-abuses-developing-countries/
 
You are assuming everyone has the **opportunity and the ability **to get up and go out and work - and even if they do very often their wages are pitifully low and unjust. Ever heard of zero hour contracts? And the self-employed who have no national insurance and do not earn enough to pay for private insurance? How do you justify that in your Utopia?
Two friends I know had one son, then divorced. She took the boy and went back to England to raise him. Dad visited each year and son came to the US each summer. When the boy was fourteen, he came to live with dad. He went to High School, got a part time job delivering the local paper on his bike once a week after school, played a few sports, investigated colleges, but in the end, after graduation he decided that he just wanted to go back to England and get on the dole as it was so much easier. Dad was disappointed, tried everything to help his son, but the boy did go back to England, get on the dole, meet a girl, have a child and to this day, has never held a job again. He is now in his forties and his kid is having kids. Meager existence for all with no prospects of improvement. Pretty bleak outlook.
 
The UN Committee on the Rights of Persons is investigating the suicides of disabled persons in the UK who have had their benefits cut by the Conservative government. Children have also died for the same reason:

theguardian.com/housing-network/2015/oct/16/homeless-children-dying-at-the-sharp-end-of-the-housing-crisis

Meanwhile the government’s policy of dismantling the Welfare State has led to private companies raking in immense profits:

telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11642267/How-nursing-agencies-making-billions-are-bleeding-the-NHS-dry.html

What is your opinion?

PS The Daily Telegraph usually supports the Conservatives - who have ensured that the richest 1% now own as much as the 55% poorest people in the UK…

newstatesman.com/life-and-society/2011/03/million-acres-land-ownership
Capitalism is an economic system in which total income is not immediately and completely consumed but a portion is saved in order that tools might be made to increase future income. Delay of immediate satisfaction? Sounds Christian.

Free enterprise capitalism expands on the principle of saving to invest by making such decisions private. Freedom for the individual to act? Sounds Christian.

Private property, free enterprise capitalism requires private contracts, promises between individuals, and a community to enforce those contracts, that is to make people keep their promises. Sounds Christian.
 
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