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noobio
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You can stop discussing now. There is no point. I am not going to respond because I don’t think we will reach a conclusion.
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Little_Mary
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ESMDHokie77
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Praying for noobio! And asking Mary to do the same!
-Phil
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EricFilmer
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But obviously we can reach a conclusion about the points I raised yesterday in Post #48 (which you have not yet responded to).
And not only that, we can easily reach a conclusion.
For example, I asked whether or not you are an adherent to Sola Scriptura (“Scripture Alone”). Some of your posts suggest you are, and some don’t.
We can easily reach a conclusion to this question by you simply telling me “yes” or “no”.
Once that is established, then you can answer my follow-up inquiry (also from Post #48). I’ll present it again here:
If you are not an adherent of Sola Scriptura then why do you demand that Catholic teachings be expressly found in the Bible in order to be valid? Isn’t that a fair question?
If you are an adherent of Sola Scriptura then where does the Bible actually teach this? After all, if Sola Scriptura is a Christian teaching and it says to reject Christian teachings that aren’t in the Bible, then Sola Scriptura would itself have to be in the Bible, wouldn’t it? In other words, I’m asking if Sola Scriptura follows its own rule. I’m asking if it passes its own test.
This is another subject with which we can easily reach a conclusion. Namely, if Sola Scriptura is in the Bible, give me the book, chapter and verse. If you do that, and if the verse actually teaches* Sola Scriptura*, then we will have reached a conclusion demonstrating its validity.
But if neither you nor anyone else can provide a book, chapter and verse from the Bible which actually teaches Sola Scriptura then we will conclude that Sola Scriptura is an invalid teaching because it presents itself as a teaching which fails its own test for validity (meaning that it tells us to only accept Christian teachings which are expressly found in the Bible while itself not being expressly found in the Bible; something that presents this kind of paradox cannot possibly be a truthful teaching).
I’m guessing this was sarcasm. If not and you are serious then this, of course, brings up more questions…
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PiousTemplar
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Lol. Protestant comes and challenges Catholics. Catholics pile him with answers. Protestant can’t bear how informed Catholics are on this forum. Protestant Retreats.
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Cinette
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*Randy has given you proof that Purgatory is in the Bible! He has sited chapter and verse - what more do you want!.
I think that you do not read his posts in which case I ask you why did you begin this thread?
Cinette*
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Cinette
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Noobio English does not seem to be your first language. The word Purgatory is not mentioned in the Bible neither is Incarnation and Trinity and others but the Church, through prayer, study and discernment arrived at that conclusion. The same with Purgatory. From the way you spell Baptism I suspect that you might be Arabic. I worked with an Egyptian who always pronounced p as b for instance.
If I am right then you must think carefully and go back to the NT and Randy’s explanation - you should pray about it.
God bless you
Cinette
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Cinette
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*Yes we are redeemed and achieve our salvation through the blood of Christ that is true. When a person is given a jail sentence for committing a crime he has to serve time for his crime. Hopefully he will learn a lesson and not repeat his crime. Similarly we must “serve time” in Purgatory.
I knew a non-Catholic who believed that all he had to do was to say he believed that Jesus was his Lord and Saviour and he was saved. He cheated on his wife and hurt her in a terrible way and he also cheated on his business partner and caused his Partner to lose his retirement. But he believed that he was saved!
No my friend you need to read Matthew 25. It is not those who say Lord, Lord who will be saved…
You cannot rely on your own understanding Proverbs 3:5-6 and go to 2 Peter 3:16 “For there are many things in scripture that are hard to understand which ignorant and unstable people distort as they do the other scriptures to their destruction.” Be mindful of these things.
Cinette *
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Cinette
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*Oh Noobio!! Do you know nothing about the Catholic Church and its founder? I suggest you go back to Matthew 16:18-19 and read it s l o w l y.
18 - “And I tell you, you are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.” Peter means rock as does Pedro (Portuguese), Pierre (French) and Jesus chose Peter to be the Shepherd of His Flock here on earth. He also promised that the gates of hell will not prevail against it. Jesus also said that he would send the Holy Spirit to guide the Church into all truth. By this Jesus gave his assurance that he would protect the Church and it would be infallible - the Church is protected against error (whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven…). That does not mean that the Body of Christ is exempt from sin. Look at Peter, he denied Jesus 3 times and after he witnessed the divinity of Jesus at the Transfiguration Jesus still said to him “get behind me Satan!” Yet Jesus STILL chose Peter to represent Him and go out to preach the Good News. You cannot judge the Church by Peter’s sins or by Judas. We have the wheat and the tares remember and these will be separated at the harvest (Judgment day)
19 - I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in Heaven." This was Jesus delegating to Peter his role in the Church.
So tell me noobio - how else can one read these verses? What is your interpretation of the Word of Jesus?
God bless you
Cinette
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StTommyMore
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Why do you restrict us to the Canon of Luther , when the Catholic Canon was closed more than 1000 years before?
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Cinette
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*I also want to draw Noobio’s attention to the fact that the Holy Scriptures emanated from Sacred Tradition. For the first 300 years Christians relied on Sacred Tradition which was passed down from Jesus to the Apostles and then by the Apostles to their appointed representatives (Priests and Bishops).On this point, let me commend you for appealing to the authority of the early Church to determine your canon of Scripture. For sacred Tradition is a divinely guided enterprise.
But second, if I could demonstrate to you that most if not all of the above names received as divinely inspired texts the Deutercanonical books, would you renounce your position and accept them as divinely inspired as well?
God bless
Cinette
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Cinette
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*Noobio - you started this thread to begin a debate. You must therefore have an open mind. Others present their beliefs and you present yours. They give you proof from the scriptures and you present your interpretations. So don’t get offended if we differ from you.
That is what CAF is all about.
God bless you
Cinette
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Cinette
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good question:thumbsup:
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joe370
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Well, that didn’t help and now I know why Noobio is gone! Too bad…
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Cinette
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*I think Noobio should not be hyper-sensitive. If he is offended by anyone we can all stand by him and help. It would be rather sad if he is gone because he is stumped. That would be defeating the purpose of opening a thread - to give up for some silly reason. I have never come across this on CAF before. Protestants are spunky and fight back!
Hey Noobio - we are waiting for your responses.
God bless you
Cinette*
Hey Noobio - we are waiting for your responses.
God bless you
Cinette
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joe370
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Cinette, that is a great question which was the same question I asked myself as a former non–Catholic, only I substituted my name for the murderer:
If I, Joe, who is repentant, died on the same day as say, Mother Teresa, would I go straight to heaven with M. Teresa? No way! Would there be no need for me to atone for my sin, mortal or otherwise? No way! Would my repentance be enough? Now way! Would I need some sort of purification before I could behold the ineffable beatific vision? Yes way!
If I, Joe, who is repentant, died on the same day as say, Mother Teresa, would I go straight to heaven with M. Teresa? No way! Would there be no need for me to atone for my sin, mortal or otherwise? No way! Would my repentance be enough? Now way! Would I need some sort of purification before I could behold the ineffable beatific vision? Yes way!
That day which will bring our works to light, clearly applies to the after life, as opposed to this life.
Our works will be tested by the Divine fire of God.
Heaven.
Upon our demise, if our works are burned up, the builder (the Christian) - will suffer loss **but will still be saved, as one escaping through the Divine purifying flames of our Savior. **If this is not what the CC labeled - Purgatory, then I don’t know what else it could be?
*Hello Noobio!
In your new found faith do you believe that if a murderer who was repentant died on the same day as say, Mother Teresa, would the murderer go straight to heaven with M. Teresa? Would there be no need to atone for his mortal sin? Do you believe that his repentance is enough? Would he be purified?
By the way, before you left the CC to join your new Protestant Church were you fully catechized? Did you know your Catechism and your Catholic Faith? Or should I say did you think you knew your Catholic Faith?
Cinette
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ESMDHokie77
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yeah, that post that I made is probably why noobio left the thread. I assume his lack of familiarity with english (we assume, esp. non-american / internet english) contributed more to his hurt feelings than what I actually said had he been familiar with the term. Thick skin is needed in debate.
… I couldn’t resist myself. I did not gracefully show my exasperation with noobio. For seemingly caused an end to the discussion and making a personal attack, I apologize.
I must learn to continue being a spectator in these discussions where veteran members of this forum are more than capable of tackling anything non catholics bring up here at CAF better than I could.
Sincerely,
Phil
… I couldn’t resist myself. I did not gracefully show my exasperation with noobio. For seemingly caused an end to the discussion and making a personal attack, I apologize.
I must learn to continue being a spectator in these discussions where veteran members of this forum are more than capable of tackling anything non catholics bring up here at CAF better than I could.
Sincerely,
Phil
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joe370
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I hope you don’t think I was being critical because I wasn’t; please keep contributing; you have so much to offer.
Your brother in Christ…
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Cinette
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*I do believe those of us with excitable natures like I have are often tempted to make sharp remarks. I know I struggle with that sometimes. When I observe other posters who are patient and gracious I resolve to try to be like them…until the next time!I hope you don’t think I was being critical because I wasn’t; please keep contributing; you have so much to offer.
Your brother in Christ…
When we get those posters who never seem to read anything (not even their own postings) and who are obviously here to stir, I can’t resist.
Perhaps I should make this a practice for Lent - graciousness and patience.
Anyway I look forward to having Noobio back with us.
God bless all
Cinette
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n64ro5845
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I recently came back to the Church from after trying to be an evengelical. I had these same questions. What you need to realize is that the Bible came from the Church, it’s not the other way around. Don’t worry so much about “proof texts”. I came to believe these doctrines because they make more sense than protestant alternatives and had more historical support. Once you see that, you’ll view Scripture through a clearer lens and find these doctrines are all soundly biblical. I hope my advice helps!
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