Is Catholicism Dying?

[Womanoffaith10]

I belong in the Diocese of Camden and recently we did a huge diocese wide survey and the numbers will just about make you cry. I can’t at the moment, but I’ll get those figures if anyone is interested. My husband and I are in our mid-twenties and with the acception of only a handful are the only ones in our age bracket I see in Mass. I’ve actually seriously contemplated leaving for another church all together, but my husband won’t have it and I can’t blame him. We are Catholic, its who and what we are and if it means we’re the only two left then so be it(of course that is worse case and very unlikely)… It all just saddens me

 

[iloveangels]

I belong in the Diocese of Camden and recently we did a huge diocese wide survey and the numbers will just about make you cry. I can’t at the moment, but I’ll get those figures if anyone is interested. My husband and I are in our mid-twenties and with the acception of only a handful are the only ones in our age bracket I see in Mass. I’ve actually seriously contemplated leaving for another church all together, but my husband won’t have it and I can’t blame him. We are Catholic, its who and what we are and if it means we’re the only two left then so be it(of course that is worse case and very unlikely)… It all just saddens me

I think the study you’re referring to is linked on the previous page already. I’ve seen it. It’s shocking. But that’s the condition the church is in along the Eastern seaboard.

Farther inland, in the midwest, it’s dead and getting deader. But it’s never been as busy here as you guys have had it. We’ve only been historically about 10% Catholic out here. Very diluted culturally. And becoming more so all the time.

 

[BobCatholic]

Catholicism is not dying. It is a beautiful faith and is the truth.

catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0252.html

“While a lot of people leave the Church, they tend not to be good Catholics,” says Curtis Martin, president of Catholics United for the Faith, who himself returned to the Church after spending five years as an evangelical Protestant. “The Protestants [now] coming into the Church are the most devoted Protestants, people deeply committed to Scripture and prayer. We’re losing the numbers game but we are winning the quality game in spades.”

I’d say that Jesus is winning here.

 

[mangy_dog]

Yes, they do. They care about MONEY $$$$$. They calculate which side of an argument will sell more articles and air time and get them more influence, and that’s the one they go with. The media is a business. And we buy their products. Buyer beware.

Yes, that better than my post.

 

[iloveangels]

… It is a beautiful faith and is the truth.

Neither of those two things is a guarantee that the faith won’t diminish or even disappear in one part of the world, even our part of the world.

Scripture says that it will survive somewhere and that’s the guarantee.

I checked your link. The fact is that the drop-out rate is absolutely huge among converts. They come in the front and walk out the back.

Consider this: any given year, nationally, about 2.5% of the church is made up of new converts, which should add up over time. But only about 7% of the church is all converts at any given time, which means they’re not adding up. Why? They’re leaving. In the front, out the back. Don’t depend on them to keep the church afloat. You’ve got to teach all the cradle Catholics. Good luck with that.

PS. I’m one of the converts that didn’t leave. I’ve seen this first hand.

PPS. BTW, the clergy abuse scandals made the conversion to Catholicism much more difficult and unpleasant to many people. The effects of that aren’t going to go away for a long, long time. It’s in the public consciousness now.

 

[BobCatholic]

PS. I’m one of the converts that didn’t leave. I’ve seen this first hand.

I’m a cradle Catholic, hoping I can keep the faith.

PPS. BTW, the clergy abuse scandals made the conversion to Catholicism much more difficult and unpleasant to many people. The effects of that aren’t going to go away for a long, long time. It’s in the public consciousness now.

This was not a problem for me. My attitude is that I’m glad we have sinners in the Catholic Church, otherwise they’d never would have let me in.

 

[iloveangels]

I’m a cradle Catholic, hoping I can keep the faith.

This was not a problem for me. My attitude is that I’m glad we have sinners in the Catholic Church, otherwise they’d never would have let me in.

Yeah, well not everybody sees it that way.

And if you’re not Catholic and you’re looking around for a good credible religion, this (the scandals) can be a deal-breaker. And it sometimes is. Our reputation outside the church is in the gutter right now.

 

[BobCatholic]

And if you’re not Catholic and you’re looking around for a good credible religion, this (the scandals) can be a deal-breaker. And it sometimes is. Our reputation outside the church is in the gutter right now.

Was our reputation outside the church ever good? Heretics, apostates, bigots, anti-Catholics, leftists, you name it, they’ve got us in their crosshairs. There is nothing new under the sun.

 

[iloveangels]

Was our reputation outside the church ever good? Heretics, apostates, bigots, anti-Catholics, leftists, you name it, they’ve got us in their crosshairs. There is nothing new under the sun.

No, it’s worse now. Cradle lay catholics often don’t have a very good feel for how the general public views the church for a lot of reasons.

Catholics were always misunderstood, but there was a curiosity and a certain amount of respect mixed in for many people. Only real-bible-thumpers said bad things and that’s only because they had turf to protect.

But since our dirty laundry has been aired in public, now we have a reputation that we didn’t have before, and it’s not very nice. People who ordinarily don’t go to church, and wouldn’t have had much of an opinion before, think we’re pretty bad now.

Priests can tell you that when they travel on airplanes, where once there was a certain amount of respect, people sometimes feel free to say very nasty things to them in public now. It’s a shame.

 

[BobCatholic]

No, it’s worse now. Cradle lay catholics often don’t have a very good feel for how the general public views the church for a lot of reasons.

Catholics were always misunderstood, but there was a curiosity and a certain amount of respect mixed in for many people. Only real-bible-thumpers said bad things and that’s only because they had turf to protect.

But since our dirty laundry has been aired in public, now we have a reputation that we didn’t have before, and it’s not very nice. People who ordinarily don’t go to church, and wouldn’t have had much of an opinion before, think we’re pretty bad now.

Priests can tell you that when they travel on airplanes, where once there was a certain amount of respect, people sometimes feel free to say very nasty things to them in public now. It’s a shame.

And if you go throughout history, you’ll see that we have had worse before. Starting with the Roman Persecutions. Man they really said nasty stuff about Catholics. Then continue on throughout the rise of Islam and what garbage they said and did to us. Then heretics, schismatics, apostates throughout the centuries. Protestants. French Revolution. Marxism. Communism. Secularism. You name it, the devil threw it at us.

I remember someone awesome saying “If they hated you, it is because they hated me first.” I think you know who I’m talking about, and I believe He is correct.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

And if you go throughout history, you’ll see that we have had worse before. Starting with the Roman Persecutions. Man they really said nasty stuff about Catholics. Then continue on throughout the rise of Islam and what garbage they said and did to us. Then heretics, schismatics, apostates throughout the centuries. Protestants. French Revolution. Marxism. Communism. Secularism. You name it, the devil threw it at us.

I remember someone awesome saying “If they hated you, it is because they hated me first.” I think you know who I’m talking about, and I believe He is correct.

This is so true. People often forget historical facts and compare today’s situation with the 1950s America, or whenever the supposed golden age was. For the rest of us the threat of Islam and communism among other evils, were reality, and are still reality in many parts of the world. Quoting stats for the US doesn’t mean much in the grand scheme of things. Catholicism is on the rise in the world. Whenever there is a topic that discusses the state of affairs in the church I assume that means the church in the world. But it always end up being the church in the US, or in the western world at best. People should be a bit more aware of what goes on beyond their borders imho.

 

[Lochias]

No, it’s worse now. Cradle lay catholics often don’t have a very good feel for how the general public views the church for a lot of reasons.

Catholics were always misunderstood, but there was a curiosity and a certain amount of respect mixed in for many people. Only real-bible-thumpers said bad things and that’s only because they had turf to protect.

But since our dirty laundry has been aired in public, now we have a reputation that we didn’t have before, and it’s not very nice. People who ordinarily don’t go to church, and wouldn’t have had much of an opinion before, think we’re pretty bad now.

Priests can tell you that when they travel on airplanes, where once there was a certain amount of respect, people sometimes feel free to say very nasty things to them in public now. It’s a shame.

Many people hated Jesus, too…didn’t stop Him from living as He was supposed to live.

If they hate us, as BobCatholic mentioned, it’s because they hated Him first.

I think we’re in good company. I love my Lord and my Church, and rough times or no, She will never fail.

 

[Traditium]

There was reference to relativism earlier. I think that’s the central issue. The rules say not to quote long articles but I’d point folks to my recent blog post.

traditium.com/2012/07/14/on-relativism/

Thanks.

JD

 

[BobCatholic]

There was reference to relativism earlier. I think that’s the central issue. The rules say not to quote long articles but I’d point folks to my recent blog post.

traditium.com/2012/07/14/on-relativism/

Thanks.

JD

Relativism is easily refuted. If someone is arguing for relativism, I will ask them “Why are you lying to me?”

If they try to prove they’re telling me the truth, they have disproved themselves. If they do not, then they have admitted that relativism is a lie.

 

[iloveangels]

Catholics have some sort of a complex about this and they flip into some sort of fatalism whenever you talk about what people think of them. It’s weird. I think it has something to do with the immigrant thing in the USA.

As a matter of fact, our reputation before about 2000 was pretty good in the general population. Now it’s tanked, but not so long ago it was pretty decent.

 

[iloveangels]

Relativism is easily refuted. If someone is arguing for relativism, I will ask them “Why are you lying to me?”

If they try to prove they’re telling me the truth, they have disproved themselves. If they do not, then they have admitted that relativism is a lie.

Sure. This is an excellent argument that Bob uses.

I have another one, but it’s similar.

When I get confronted with relativism, I just say sort of tongue in cheek but nice and clear, “OH I understand, you’re telling me there’s no ultimate truth and that’s the ultimate truth, right?” They usually realize they’ve been had in about 10 seconds. It sounds ridiculous because it is ridiculous.

Humor sometimes works where other approaches do not. This one works very well in situations where a formal argument isn’t supposed to occur but you’re fed up with listening to relativistic ****.

 

[Lochias]

Catholics have some sort of a complex about this and they flip into some sort of fatalism whenever you talk about what people think of them. It’s weird. I think it has something to do with the immigrant thing in the USA.

As a matter of fact, our reputation before about 2000 was pretty good in the general population. Now it’s tanked, but not so long ago it was pretty decent.

Meh. People will think what they want to think.

 

[iloveangels]

Meh. People will think what they want to think.

And that they do.

 

[Domiy]

I don’t want to dwell much into it, and I haven’t read all of the thread so far, but I will give my 2 cents.

TC has a very good point, which is very sad. Not worrying, but sad. The more people away from Christ the more the world loses its way, as do those individuals.

Many people can call themselves Catholic (or Christian) but almost never pray, go to church, fast, read the Bible etc. Not much of a Catholic, are they? I find this is especially true in the US (no offense intended to Americans). I don’t want to sound like a conspiracy theorist or paranoid preacher, but what we are living in today is nothing short of an attack on spirituality, especially the Church. The agenda of our government’s is clear. They want world power, unmatched financial ability and the authority to ‘control’ people. Religion, or the Church, are the only things that stand in their way on the matter. It’s a classic case of taking out the competition.

It’s not hard to back this up either. It seems that everything being done is an organized attack on the church. Anytime there is a single hiccup inside the Church, it’s published and put all over the media like crazy. Yet when you have homosexual parades turning into violent discriminating protests (don’t be fooled, the homosexuals are NOT the victims), not a single mention of it reaches our media. We are seeing world leaders with little to no spirituality or faith in their thinking, which is quite contrary to many years ago.

Of course, it seems like every film or music creator has conveniently resorted to bashing the church as well. Here’s a perfect example I like to use. Watch the American Hollywood movie called Clerks II (I’m a bit of a movie buff, so my friend suggested this to me for a laugh, which I wish he hadn’t). I find it extremely convenient that the protagonist of the movie is clearly wearing a Christian crucifix for the entire movie, yet the movie is constantly talking about offensive and vulgar things, and at one point even makes extremely offensive references to Jesus Christ among other things. Clearly a tactic to downplay the relevance and appropriateness of the Church. It’s almost a form of subliminal messaging.

Of course, we must stay strong. Our Lady of Medjugorje has promised us a sign from above that will turn the world from it’s wicked ways.

 

[St_Donatus]

As a revert, (coming back to the Catholic Church after 30 years), I can say that I found a parish where everyone I have met believes 100% of what the Church teaches. That is why I drive 50 miles each way to go to Mass on Sunday. The problem is that it is a Traditional Latin Parish. It is FSSP so it is Roman Catholic and not schizmatic. I don’t understand the Latin, but I understand the Holy Spirit that is flowing through the mass and the people there. The priest is very orthodox and makes us tow the line. Sadly, even the priests I have met in the non-Traditional parishes seemed so worldly. I visited with two and neither wanted to pray prior to our talking about my return to the church. I think that in an effort to be more approachable, the clergy seems less holy and my tendency is not to take what they say as fact, but their opinion. If they tell me that I shouldn’t use contraceptive, I think, well that is your opinion. When the priest at the Traditional Latin church tells us that using contraceptive is wrong, he talks with authority, and I think, God doesn’t want me to use contraceptives so I won’t.

I think this same mindset has influenced the church as a whole. In trying to be more approachable, they have lost much of their sense of speaking for God.