Is Catholicism legalistic?

[ComplineSanFran]

Can you provide any documentation/references for this process? It would seem that I need to be educated.

Guanophone, I have searched for appropriate references for you and they are either very simplistic or in books not easily available. Let me see if I can summarize how the Anglican Church in the US (The Episcopal Church) governs as a Church.

The structure/hierarchy should be very familiar. From top down, there are Bishops, with one Bishop being Primate (in the US), and the others each head the 100+ dioceses. Some are retired, some take on other missions, but primarily it is the duty of a Bishop to head a Diocese. They all sit in the House of Bishops. (Perhaps you saw our Primate, Bishop Michael Curry, preaching at the Royal Wedding several weeks ago.)

On a side note, the Founding Fathers who crafted the governance of the newly formed United States also created the same system for the Church. House of Bishops (Senate), House of Deputies (House of Representatives). For the Church, each diocese has both clergy and laity making up the House of Deputies.

There are priests and deacons, who primarily serve in parishes. Each parish is run by clergy as its leader, and a vestry, a group of laity (the parish council).

Parishes are expected to govern themselves according to the constitution and canons of the diocese and the larger Church. The Bishop has ultimate authority.

Each diocese is expected to govern itself according to the same canons. Each Bishop is under the authority of the constitution and canons and the greater House of Bishops.

Once every three years, the Church comes together to make decisions about polity, liturgy and worship, the Book of Common Prayer, sacraments, and things such as budget.

This form of governance is both ‘episcopal’ (by the Bishop) and presbyterial (by elders) and is very much a ‘shared governance.’ It, in essence, means that discernment is not in the hands of one person but rather in the assembly of the Church. Perhaps it is similar to the shared discernment of the College of Cardinals.

Shared governance is very much a result of the American Independence from England - the Mother Church, as it were. The Founders saw the creation of a new Nation and a distinctly separate Anglican Church as paramount. So thus we have the model of polity that has remained strong.

This does not speak, however, to the basic theological and doctrinal foundations of the Church, which we know to be Apostolic. Those are in our creeds and in our sacramental worship. Theologians - and liturgists - are always exploring new ways of understanding who we are as Christians and as Anglicans.

I can give you websites and links to books if you would like.

I guess that’s the truncated form. Let me know if you have need for more information.

 

[guanophore]

Guanophone, I have searched for appropriate references for you and they are either very simplistic or in books not easily available.

Thank you, I appreciate your efforts. I have found the same.

Although it may seem to some that the CC is “legalistic”, one difference is that canon law, disciplines, and 2000 years of tradition are all readily available to the faithful.

A new generation cannot proceed with practices that have no foundation in the Apostolic faith, as do many evangelicals today.

They all sit in the House of Bishops.

Yes, I think you are right that this is comparable to our USCCB, and cognates in other countries.

the Founding Fathers who crafted the governance of the newly formed United States also created the same system for the Church.

I think you are meaning to say that the model of US gov’t is based on the Anglican model of governance?

Parishes are expected to govern themselves according to the constitution and canons of the diocese and the larger Church.

So your concept that the CC is “legalistic” is based on their governance being somehow more subjective than objective?

Once every three years, the Church comes together to make decisions about polity, liturgy and worship, the Book of Common Prayer, sacraments, and things such as budget.

What is most concerning to me is the susceptibility of this body/process to the pressure of modernism.

This form of governance is both ‘episcopal’ (by the Bishop) and presbyterial (by elders) and is very much a ‘shared governance.’ It, in essence, means that discernment is not in the hands of one person but rather in the assembly of the Church. Perhaps it is similar to the shared discernment of the College of Cardinals.

No, I think that the college of cardinals is more like the “house of bishops”.

The Founders saw the creation of a new Nation and a distinctly separate Anglican Church as paramount.

I am thankful, as I think this is necessary to prevent the abuses that occur when secular authority is equated with spiritual.

Theologians - and liturgists - are always exploring new ways of understanding who we are as Christians and as Anglicans.

With very diverse results, it would seem.

I can give you websites and links to books if you would like.

No, I understand this summary, and primarily wanted to see how it contrasts with what you consider the “legalism” of Catholicism.

It seems that the structure is ideally suited to adapt to the modern culture.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

I think you are meaning to say that the model of US gov’t is based on the Anglican model of governance?

ComplineSanFran:

No, not at all. The two forms of governance were created by the same people at the same time, using parallel models, one for the newly independent US and one for the Anglican Church which needed autonomy from the Church of England’s polity.

 

[Gorgias]

No, not at all. The two forms of governance were created by the same people at the same time, using parallel models, one for the newly independent US and one for the Anglican Church which needed autonomy from the Church of England’s polity.

I’m confused. The Founding Fathers in the U.S. weren’t all Anglican. Do you mean that the Anglican Church in the U.S. was founded by some of the same guys who helped found the U…S.A.?

 

[ComplineSanFran]

I’m confused. The Founding Fathers in the U.S. weren’t all Anglican. Do you mean that the Anglican Church in the U.S. was founded by some of the same guys who helped found the U…S.A.?

Over half of the Founding Fathers of the US were Anglican. They, with others, designed the form of government we have now. With the Independence from England, those Anglicans in the US also had to declare independence from the Church of England. They were still Anglican but had to create an autonomous Church government in the US. The Founding Fathers who designed the secular government of the US also designed the Episcopal Church government, using the same principles of 2 houses (Senate / House of Bishops, and House of Representatives / House of Deputies).

The Episcopal Church was never ‘founded’. It is Anglican and always was. The governing polity changed tho, with independence from the Church of England.

 

[Gorgias]

Over half of the Founding Fathers of the US were Anglican. They, with others, designed the form of government we have now.

OK… so, some of the Founding Fathers were tasked with creating a system of governance for the Anglican Church in the U.S., and they used an approach similar to what the U.S. had utilized, in its creation. Got it.

 

[po18guy]

What was the OP’s question again…?