Is chastity realistic in the 21st century?

[TheAdvocate]

On the one hand, those who believe they are called to the married state of life engage in courtship (dating). While dating, sooner or later, if there is mutual attraction, esp. physical, there will be expressions of affection. From what I’ve read on these forums, such expression must be confined to hand holding, embraces, and short kisses, since even prolonged kisses can stir up the passions and become an opportunity for sin.

The problem is, times have changed. Has anyone seen the movie The Godfather? There is a scene in which Michael Corleone is courting a young woman in Sicily. They go for a walk, and soon we see that about 15-20 old ladies were following them about 50 meters behind. It was a sort of chaperoning. We really don’t have that today.

We therefore recommend group dating to limit the times that a couple is alone. But sooner or later, a young (or even adult) couple is going to want to be alone, and it will happen: in the car, on a walk, etc. And since so many people delay getting married until after college when they have some financial stability, that means that a Catholic couple would have to be content with a quick peck on the lips and hugs for years. I just don’t see how we can expect that “situation” not to escalate. I mean, sooner or later, those quick pecks on the lips will evolve into longer kisses.

Compare all this to an earlier era, when women got married shortly after puberty and men got married about the age of 18. Social structures were in place to prevent premarital sex…see Godfather reference above. Heck, before that, marriages were arranged!

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t try to be chaste. But I don’t necessarily think that premarital sex, heavy petting, etc. is always a mortal sin either. Times have changed, but our bodies haven’t. We’re only human, and holding hands for years just doesn’t seem very realistic. Though it is a good ideal, one surely to be strived for—with God’s help.

 

[austenbosten]

It’s realistic and it is possible. Remember the early Christians had to remain chaste when people were going off to have a weekly orgy and a brothel was on every street corner.

 

[domNoah]

On the one hand, those who believe they are called to the married state of life engage in courtship (dating). While dating, sooner or later, if there is mutual attraction, esp. physical, there will be expressions of affection. From what I’ve read on these forums, such expression must be confined to hand holding, embraces, and short kisses, since even prolonged kisses can stir up the passions and become an opportunity for sin.

The problem is, times have changed. Has anyone seen the movie The Godfather? There is a scene in which Michael Corleone is courting a young woman in Sicily. They go for a walk, and soon we see that about 15-20 old ladies were following them about 50 meters behind. It was a sort of chaperoning. We really don’t have that today.

We therefore recommend group dating to limit the times that a couple is alone. But sooner or later, a young (or even adult) couple is going to want to be alone, and it will happen: in the car, on a walk, etc. And since so many people delay getting married until after college when they have some financial stability, that means that a Catholic couple would have to be content with a quick peck on the lips and hugs for years. I just don’t see how we can expect that “situation” not to escalate. I mean, sooner or later, those quick pecks on the lips will evolve into longer kisses.

Compare all this to an earlier era, when women got married shortly after puberty and men got married about the age of 18. Social structures were in place to prevent premarital sex…see Godfather reference above. Heck, before that, marriages were arranged!

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t try to be chaste. But I don’t necessarily think that premarital sex, heavy petting, etc. is always a mortal sin either. Times have changed, but our bodies haven’t. We’re only human, and holding hands for years just doesn’t seem very realistic. Though it is a good ideal, one surely to be strived for—with God’s help.

God always supplies sufficient grace to follow his commandments. Your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit and you are not allowed to defile it.

Fasting, regular reception of Holy Communion and devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary are effective means at controlling your passions if you firmly desire to remain pure and not sin.

If you desire to be unclean in some way and do not wish to observe Chastity then these things will not help. Do not say that God cannot help you he has saved his Saints in the absolute worst of temptations.

 

[Gods_Peace]

It’s realistic and it is possible. Remember the early Christians had to remain chaste when people were going off to have a weekly orgy and a brothel was on every street corner.

Really? The early christians were strong, because they were the first fruits of salvation .

 

[austenbosten]

Really? The early christians were strong, because they were the first fruits of salvation .

So what does that make us? Schmucks?

I’m not talking about the Apostles, I’m talking about regular folks who converted to the church in the early years…even then there are still the Jews who remained chaste till marriage at a time when pagans were having orgies and such.

 

[fastenatingguy]

On the one hand, those who believe they are called to the married state of life engage in courtship (dating). While dating, sooner or later, if there is mutual attraction, esp. physical, there will be expressions of affection. From what I’ve read on these forums, such expression must be confined to hand holding, embraces, and short kisses, since even prolonged kisses can stir up the passions and become an opportunity for sin.

The problem is, times have changed. Has anyone seen the movie The Godfather? There is a scene in which Michael Corleone is courting a young woman in Sicily. They go for a walk, and soon we see that about 15-20 old ladies were following them about 50 meters behind. It was a sort of chaperoning. We really don’t have that today.

We therefore recommend group dating to limit the times that a couple is alone. But sooner or later, a young (or even adult) couple is going to want to be alone, and it will happen: in the car, on a walk, etc. And since so many people delay getting married until after college when they have some financial stability, that means that a Catholic couple would have to be content with a quick peck on the lips and hugs for years. I just don’t see how we can expect that “situation” not to escalate. I mean, sooner or later, those quick pecks on the lips will evolve into longer kisses.

Compare all this to an earlier era, when women got married shortly after puberty and men got married about the age of 18. Social structures were in place to prevent premarital sex…see Godfather reference above. Heck, before that, marriages were arranged!

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t try to be chaste. But I don’t necessarily think that premarital sex, heavy petting, etc. is always a mortal sin either. Times have changed, but our bodies haven’t. We’re only human, and holding hands for years just doesn’t seem very realistic. Though it is a good ideal, one surely to be strived for—with God’s help.

---

Is chastity realistic for the 21st century? Maybe not in this culture.

But that probably isn’t the right question. How about, is chastity pleasing to God?

 

[TarkanAttila]

We therefore recommend group dating to limit the times that a couple is alone. But sooner or later, a young (or even adult) couple is going to want to be alone, and it will happen: in the car, on a walk, etc. And since so many people delay getting married until after college when they have some financial stability, that means that a Catholic couple would have to be content with a quick peck on the lips and hugs for years.

First of all, I want to tell you I understand where you are coming from. I used to be there, too.

And second of all, I want to tell you that this business about not being able to simply hug and kiss for three, four, eight years is malarkey. With all due respect, previous generations were able to do it, and it had nothing to do with chaperoning.

It has everything to do with self-control, and self-knowledge.

Tell me this, my friend: what do you see a woman as? Pair of lips, pair of breasts, pair of buttocks, pair of lower lips, pair of legs?

WRONG!

That woman is a human soul, like you. And what are you? Made to be like God. You think. You can reason, and realise you’re reasoning. Animals may be able to know things. But only you can know you’re knowing things. Only she can know. You are both unique in that respect as a species.

You are also unique in that, when you “come together”, you almost become one for just a second. That’s something else which separates you from the animals. When you “unite” in that way you aren’t just having orgasms. You can even feel yourself becoming indistinct from her. That’s something reflective only of one other Being: God. God who, as Father and Son, become one in love and substance, even though they are two and distinct.

And the product of this love is the Holy Ghost and the Universe - just as the product of sex is not just unity, but creativity, of the child in her womb. Again, you totally reflect God and His Creative powers.

In Sum - you know you know things, somewhat like God does. You and she unite in something like God’s unity. And you create life in something like God’s creation.

Truly you and she are a reflection of God. But when you pull on a rubber, or she takes a pill - or you have sex at any time without the intention to be like God in any of those aspects - the easiest is number three usually - you longer are like God. You’re not even like animals. You are lower than an animal when you contracept, or have sex on impulse. You trash something wonderful that you deserve to have fresh and ready, and that SHE deserves to have fresh and for the first time, so that you truly can be like God, who is not divided, and does not have many lovers, but God shares His Life with the Whole World, and the Father shares His love with the Son.

Mull some of that over a bit and tell me what you think.

I dunno about you, but I think I’ll save sex for when it will be its best. Cucumbers are never quite as good when they’re not ripe. ^.^

 

[dimentichisimai]

It’s definitely possible. We all may struggle with it, but now in my mid-20s, and soon to be engaged, I find it much easier to remain chaste.

There’s no magic wand, but it’s do-able. It just takes hard work. It’s an act of the will and an accepting of God’s grace. You’ve got to tame your passions. Resist every unchaste glance or thought. Keep doing it, and it becomes a habit. And of course, pray like crazy. St. Agnes has your back.

It’s part of becoming a Man.

 

[TheAdvocate]

Thanks for a thoughtful post. I have no desire to sleep around, contracept…I guess the main thesis of my post was that with the way things have changed, I don’t believe that premarital sex, heavy petting, etc. is always a mortal sin. Circumstances have changes, and circumstances in part determine the moral quality of a concrete act, as the CCC teaches us. (1750)

If masturbation is not always a mortal sin (2352, second paragraph), surely the same might be applicable for heavy petting and premarital sex. All I’m saying is, let’s not always be too hard on people who lost control in this different world of ours…that includes ourselves.

That being said, chastity of course should be the aim.

 

[TheAdvocate]

It’s realistic and it is possible. Remember the early Christians had to remain chaste when people were going off to have a weekly orgy and a brothel was on every street corner.

True, but the institution of arranged marriage was readily available back then, too. It’s not like orgies were the only way people engaged in “affection.” Christians, therefore, just continued in the ancient tradition.

 

[Aggies08]

And since so many people delay getting married until after college when they have some financial stability, that means that a Catholic couple would have to be content with a quick peck on the lips and hugs for years. I just don’t see how we can expect that “situation” not to escalate. I mean, sooner or later, those quick pecks on the lips will evolve into longer kisses.

I could never be “content” in leading my (now) husband to sin. If we lose sight of the other, if we forget we are to be helpmates to heaven, then sin comes in.

 

[bearer]

Yes, chastity is realistic. It is a matter of putting God’s will above your own. If you love God with all your heart, mind, and strength, and want to please him and avoid sin, you will avoid near occasions of sin, and He will help you along the way. And, in that case, if an occasion of sin unexpectedly presents itself, you will run from it. For that matter, even unbelievers can and do live chastely.

It doesn’t help us that our societies and cultures, especially in the West, have scandalized us and conditioned us to accept licentiousness, but in the end, we have the ability to reject sin and choose to behave righteously. We are not the mere mammals that so many unrepentant sinners claim us to be.

But I don’t necessarily think that premarital sex, heavy petting, etc. is always a mortal sin either. Times have changed, but our bodies haven’t.

Voluntary sexual acts, even adulterous thoughts, are virtually always mortal sins. You’d have to be crazy or truly helpless for them not to be, and then you’d be among a very, very small fraction of humanity.

Times have indeed changed, but God’s righteousness and laws have not. The fact that we understand our biology so well today, as well as the harmfulness of promiscuity, makes it even clearer why we should avoid premarital and/or disordered sex.

 

[TheAdvocate]

Yes, chastity is realistic. It is a matter of putting God’s will above your own. If you love God with all your heart, mind, and strength, and want to please him and avoid sin, you will avoid near occasions of sin, and He will help you along the way. And, in that case, if an occasion of sin unexpectedly presents itself, you will run from it. For that matter, even unbelievers can and do live chastely.

It doesn’t help us that our societies and cultures, especially in the West, have scandalized us and conditioned us to accept licentiousness, but in the end, we have the ability to reject sin and choose to behave righteously. We are not the mere mammals that so many unrepentant sinners claim us to be.

Voluntary sexual acts, even adulterous thoughts, are virtually always mortal sins. You’d have to be crazy or truly helpless for them not to be, and then you’d be among a very, very small fraction of humanity.

Times have indeed changed, but God’s righteousness and laws have not. The fact that we understand our biology so well today, as well as the harmfulness of promiscuity, makes it even clearer why we should avoid premarital and/or disordered sex.

See post #9 above. Again, the CCC states that even masturbation is not always a mortal sin…it depends on the circumstances:

"To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability." 2352

Therefore, why would that not apply to heavy petting or premarital sex? Apparently you don’t have to be only “crazy or truly helpless” for it not to be a mortal sin in the case of masturbation.

 

[Facite]

Here’s the question: What’s your motive to loosen the punishments to offenses against the sixth commandment? Is it desire, want for pleasure or acceptance? Any one of these and more merely make you more of a selfish person。

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t try to be chaste. But I don’t necessarily think that premarital sex, heavy petting, etc. is always a mortal sin either. Times have changed, but our bodies haven’t. We’re only human, and holding hands for years just doesn’t seem very realistic. Though it is a good ideal, one surely to be strived for—with God’s help.

Sex outside of marriage is a terrible sin, simply because the gift of sexuality is intimately linked to the creation of a new, unique and eternal being. Thus the only people who can rightfully engage in sexual relations are a husband and wife in a covenant we call Holy Matrimony. Realize that most of the social ills in the world today are the rotten fruit of the misuse, and abuse of the sexual gift. In fact, 80% of criminals in prison today come from broken families with no father figure, the product mere sex, not a committed marriage.

But Catholics are given the treasure of the Seven Sacraments, which are the primary means for receiving sanctifying grace. Grace EMPOWERS US to do things we could never do on our own. So yes, you are called to be chaste, and temperate, and pure. That’s the point of being a Christian; so that you are transformed form the old self to a new self through Christ. And because much was given to Catholics, much will be required from Catholics.

Understand that the Church teaches that sexuality is a sacred gift, and your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. Thus it is a great sin to engage or dabble with sexual intercourse outside of marriage. The Church blesses and encourages married people to have lots and lots of sex. So if you think you cannot control yourself, prepare yourself for married life and give yourself completely to your spouse, thus turning your vitality into children, not mere self gratification. The very first command God gave Man was to be fruitful and multiply, thus the primary purpose of marriage is to be open to allowing God to create new life, within a nest of love called marriage.

 

[GEddie]

The culture has changed, but human life has not changed.

Purgatory has not been closed down just because we are in the “21st century”.

(In Jerusalem, it’s the 58th century, anyhow )

Like CS Lewis said, those who keep up with the times, end up where all times go.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Turtle_Turtle]

Yes it is, but only if one cooperates with the grace of God and asks God for help every single time temptation comes.

One cannot be chaste on one’s own effort, if one does anything it is only by the strength and grace of God that one so achieves anything.

 

[bearer]

See post #9 above. Again, the CCC states that even masturbation is not always a mortal sin…it depends on the circumstances:

"To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability." 2352

Therefore, why would that not apply to heavy petting or premarital sex? Apparently you don’t have to be only “crazy or truly helpless” for it not to be a mortal sin in the case of masturbation.

You’re fallaciously trying to draw the same conclusion from different occurrences. In the case of masturbation, read the entire CCC paragraph you’ve cited:

“Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.”

Those considerations you’ve quoted suggest a lack of rational responsibility and/or helplessness, and even then, culpability may be reduced to a minimum, not eliminated.

It is possible to masturbate to relieve physical or emotional stress without lusting after some person or object, but that is generally not the case according to a number of bishops and priests who regularly hear confessions and have spoken and written on the issue. Remember: “Everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart” (Matthew 5:28).

Heavy petting presents a near occasion of sin and is in fact scandalous (which is in itself gravely sinful) if it leads another person to lust or physical fornication/adultery. Note that a confessor is obligated to deny absolution to a penitent who confesses a sin but has not removed the near occasion of sin that led to his/her enticement to sin.

In addition, sex outside of marriage, i.e. adultery and/or fornication, is always gravely sinful.

2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.

2400 Adultery, divorce, polygamy, and free union are grave offenses against the dignity of marriage.

In closing, remember what mortal sin denotes:

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.”

In other words, you’d have to be completely ignorant, crazy, or helpless not to know better and to be unable to control your actions regarding masturbation, heavy petting, and extra-marital sex.

By making excuses for the commission of these sins against chastity and trying to suggest that they are not mortal, you may be leading viewers further into sin, and potentially at the peril of their immortal souls.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Though some pull it off, no, it’s not realistic.

That’s why we need to get off our high horses and stop telling people that are called to the vocation to wait until they’re 30+ with PHD’s and a house paid off. Seriously. Enough of that ridiculous notion. What is so terrible about a married couple living in a parent’s home (provided they are OK with that) until they are financially “secure”? This is a very anti-marriage point of view IMO.

 

[stephe1987]

It is realistic. Believe it or not, there are still come people who are virgins on their wedding night.

Some tips:

1. Don’t date before you’re ready to seriously consider marriage. There is no need to have a boyfriend/girlfriend in high school, and in some cases even college (especially your first couple years as an undergrad; I can maybe see dating your junior or senior year, or in grad school, but honestly most people are too immature for serious relationships at that age). You’re not going to marry that person, you’re still becoming the person you’re going to be (human brain still developing), and it only serves as a temptation to sin. If you want to interact with the opposite sex, you can always go skiing, bowling, go with a group to see a movie, etc. You don’t have to be a hermit, but you don’t have to be in a serious relationship, either.
2. Always pray and look to Jesus, Mary and Joseph and the lives of the Saints as models for chastity.
3. Avoid temptations to lust/sin.
4. If you do happen to fall into sin, make sure you go to Confession ASAP. Every sin offends God, no matter how great or how small.