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ribozyme
Guest
Does the Judeo-Christian tradition condemn atheism, not those who merely believe in another God?
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exoflare
Guest
Not anti-atheist. More anti-atheism. 
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mommyof4
Guest
I think I agree with that.Not anti-atheist. More anti-atheism.
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jimmy
Guest
Yes, atheism is condemned. It is condemned by all religions that profess there is a god. For me to affirm that there is a god is to declare the contradictory statement to be false. If God is then He can’t also not be. This is simply the law of non-contradiction.
The bible says that God exists and that He is acting within the world to bring us into a relationship with Himself. It condemns atheism because atheism is contradictory to it. How can someone be an atheist yet have a relationship with God? That is a self contradictory statement.
EDIT: Romans speaks of the Greeks in chapter1. Paul makes clear that God has revealed Himself through His creation so there is no excuse to not pursue Him. So yes, it does condemn atheism.
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xmydreamsfadex
Guest
also, atheism goes against the 1st commandment.
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porkscratchings
Guest
There is nothing in the Bible that specifically condemn atheism. Most of the passages in the Bible condemn rejection of God, by disobedience to him or by worshipping other gods. U won’t find any passage that condemn someone for not believing in any god at all (which is the definition of an atheist).
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exoflare
Guest
Psalm 14:1
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porkscratchings
Guest
The text: the fool says in his heart: there is no God.
The context: it refers to someone who feels that there is no God observing his actions (so he can behave as he pleases), and he doesn’t have to fear God’s judgement.
Read the rest of the passage - this has nothing to do with atheism.
Atheism as a concept did not exist in the worldview of those who wrote the Bible. U r interpreting the Bible through a modern worldview - a view that did not exist in the minds of the people who wrote it.
I don’t think Christianityor the Bible is anti-atheist, it is the believers themselves who are anti-atheist.
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bluestarsneyes
Guest
The refusal to acknowledge God is the same as rejection of God.
For example…if there were apples on a table on one person refuses to eat the apple for political protest and dies of starvation…and another person refuses to recoginze that the apple is food and also dies of starvation…which one died of starvation? Both…it does not matter how they starved and died…the outcome was the same?
I’m not sure the point of the post to be totally honest except to question scripture. It is quite clear that God did not spend the time with Moses to create rules for every single pattern of thought or religion that would come up in our existence…however the scriptures are a good indicator of what is expected.
Then again for an atheist, scripture should be completely irrelevant. If there is no God, then there is no need for scriptures.
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porkscratchings
Guest
To use ur analogy, if one person refuses the eat an apple and dies, he dies by starvation. If another person does not eat apples but he eats something else - he may die by something else - but not starvation. These two deaths are not the same outcome.
An atheist who doesn’t believe in gods does not reject God, since to reject something u have to believe it exists in the first place. A theist may reject God since he believes there is a God to reject.
The point of the post is to ask whether persecution of atheists is part of religion and whether the scriptures support this persecution. I think the answer is no, based on my argument that scripture should be interpreted within the context of the time it was written, not interpreted thru modern attitudes.
There may be a need for scriptures - as literature, as a guide to life, as philosophy, as a historical document. I don’t think the Vedas to be holy, but I feel that it has a lot of inspirational passages in it.
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Holly3278
Guest
Yes, I feel that it is anti-atheist.
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porkscratchings
Guest
Why?
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bluestarsneyes
Guest
No you confuse the analogy…the person has but one option…an apple or starving…you changed it to say that the person rejects the apple and eats something different…there in lies the rub. Not choosing to recognize God is a rejection of the apple…even if you refuse to acknowledge the apple’s existence…you will lack the nurishment of the apple. You may choose to believe that there are other sources of nurishment…that is a belief…however God states…there is but one God…quite simply…he’s the only apple in the room.
I will be totally honest I am quite confused as to why it matters to an atheist as to whether the terminology of rejecting God or refusing to acknowledge his existence is at point here…in the eyes of God…it does not matter whether you believe in Hell…it’s still separation from God?
If an atheist does not choose to have faith in a God he can not see, then quite simply you have made the choice to base your beliefs on what you can see…it is a choice. I think that how you come to that choice and whether you reject him or refuse to believe he exists is pointless.
I also agree that persecution of ANYONE is not apart of scriptures. I do not believe it is apart of any teaching of God, or Jesus.
Atheist has every right to make a choice to accept or deny the existence of God. I find no scriptural evidence for any persecution of anyone based on any beliefs.
I find it quite interesting that an Atheist would find value in following scripture. I’m not trying to be ugly, but WHY? If there is no God, then there are nothing more than basic physical earthly consequences for behaviors…I am really curious (sorry I’m a Theology major so my questions are truly my curious nature!)
I will be totally honest I am quite confused as to why it matters to an atheist as to whether the terminology of rejecting God or refusing to acknowledge his existence is at point here…in the eyes of God…it does not matter whether you believe in Hell…it’s still separation from God?
If an atheist does not choose to have faith in a God he can not see, then quite simply you have made the choice to base your beliefs on what you can see…it is a choice. I think that how you come to that choice and whether you reject him or refuse to believe he exists is pointless.
I also agree that persecution of ANYONE is not apart of scriptures. I do not believe it is apart of any teaching of God, or Jesus.
Atheist has every right to make a choice to accept or deny the existence of God. I find no scriptural evidence for any persecution of anyone based on any beliefs.
I find it quite interesting that an Atheist would find value in following scripture. I’m not trying to be ugly, but WHY? If there is no God, then there are nothing more than basic physical earthly consequences for behaviors…I am really curious (sorry I’m a Theology major so my questions are truly my curious nature!)
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Roman_Catholic_1
Guest
Acceptance is not a condition of rejection. Refusing to accept God, whether you believe He exists or not, is a rejection.
Do I have to first believe that the sun is green before I can reject the idea that it is green and correctly believe it is yellow?
God bless
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Exalt
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porkscratchings
Guest
I didn’t confuse the analogy - I just see it differently. U see apples but I see apples, pears, bananas, and anything else that might give nourishment.
It matters because I see people ‘reworking’ the scriptures to justify hating people - in the past it was pagans and jews. Now it is muslims and atheists. My question is - did the original Jews/ Christians interpreted their own scriptures in such a narrow minded way? History would say not.
If u choose to believe that rejection of God and not believing in the existence of God is the same thing, then u believe something that the original Jews and Christians did not believe - they did not have any awareness of atheists and so could not have written anything about atheism. It would be like finding bible passages about flying saucers or computers.
A person can find value in many things. If I don’t believe in something - does that make the thing I don’t believe in to be worthless? My choices in my beliefs does not mean I think scripture to be useless. I don’t believe in God, but that doesn’t automatically mean that I don’t respect those who do.
Even scripture talks about basic physical earthly consequences for behaviors, if u ignore the parts about God - so there’s something in it for non-believers to find inspiration.
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bluestarsneyes
Guest
God said…he’s the only apple…bananas, pears, whatever are not the apple…I think it’s a bit pointless to continue to argue but quite simply you have to admit…God said he was the only apple and eating anything else is well…not an apple.
I am FIRMLY against any teachings, actions or words that would hate anyone. Look I know where you are going okay…because let’s get real no matter what you call it politics, church or school people will and do hate…it is wrong in any form! All are made from God…it is his job to judge…God said it was our job to love…we are to do as he commands in our lives…be the example share our faith…and the rest is up to him. I can’t excuse or attempt to say the church all of it has not and is not making some mistakes it is…but there are many of us that DO want to discuss with all faiths what we believe about a loving God as that is what he commands us to do…what you do with the knowledge is your choice. Every one reworks everything…look a politics…look at tax law…it’s human nature to have people attempt to cloud the truth.
YES the Jews had sections that were VERY literal and very strict in their interpretation of the scriptures…um…the Pharisees…they were so upset that Jesus was not strictly adhering to the law and the oral traditions that they tore their clothes screamed to God in the streets and vowed to have him killed…they were quite…um…passionate you might say about adhering to the law. At other times they slaughter entire villages and didn’t even keep the goods left by them because they considered it tainted.
So yes…I’m sorry you must go back and research…the biblical history does back up the fact that there are and were times when some were very strict in adhering to the law.
There were Atheists in the times of the Old Testament…there was non-jews that followed Jewish law…there were people that worshiped a cow…there were people that probably just built the temples for the Egyptians and went home had some wine and fell asleep
almost all of human history shows this to be the case…the rejection or refusal to believe in him has been around it didn’t just become into being in the 50’s because someone finally got smart???
Do you think that everyone was convinced to believe in a God they couldn’t see? I’m a Christian and even I don’t believe that to be true and nothing in history backs up that statement…they just didn’t seem to have the notion to build Temples, Kingdoms, and father nations to pronounce their…well…their belief in not believing in anything.
I however and completely baffled as to why seriously why someone that did not believe anything other than earthly consequences for actions would not be doing anything other than reading SCRIPTURES! WoW! I’d have to tell you…I’d be rolling through sin alley and reading scriptures only to find out what I could actually get away with now!
I mean you can be a relatively decent person and not obey any laws of scripture…see you could cheat on your taxes and as long as the IRS didn’t find out…no consequences…you could LUST with no guilt! I mean come on lust! That’s an easy sin I’d be all over that one…I mean there are no earthly consequences for that one!
And money…wow…I’d be keeping ALL of the money from my paycheck! Let’s see…there’s lots more…but I’m just really confused have you read all that you CAN’T do under the scriptures?
You have to not lust, not covet…not be jealous…not this not that…you should read A.J. Jacobs book Living Biblically for a Year…he’s an agnostic and wrote the book…quite interesting…and I think he shows what a complete drag it is to follow the bible without having the benefit of love behind it all. But that’s just my opinion.
More blessings to you…hope that doesn’t offend you…but I myself questioned the existence of God and studied scripture, scientology, zen, mormonism, catholics, and even the church of Bob…no lie…and really found out that all along God was talking to me…he just didn’t have the face of a Baptist preacher or George Bush…he was quite…cool and Godly.
Thanks for the talk…I’ve learned alot and now have something to discuss with my next class.
Anything else you have let me know…I’m finding you quite interesting and I mean that wholeheartedly.
I am FIRMLY against any teachings, actions or words that would hate anyone. Look I know where you are going okay…because let’s get real no matter what you call it politics, church or school people will and do hate…it is wrong in any form! All are made from God…it is his job to judge…God said it was our job to love…we are to do as he commands in our lives…be the example share our faith…and the rest is up to him. I can’t excuse or attempt to say the church all of it has not and is not making some mistakes it is…but there are many of us that DO want to discuss with all faiths what we believe about a loving God as that is what he commands us to do…what you do with the knowledge is your choice. Every one reworks everything…look a politics…look at tax law…it’s human nature to have people attempt to cloud the truth.
YES the Jews had sections that were VERY literal and very strict in their interpretation of the scriptures…um…the Pharisees…they were so upset that Jesus was not strictly adhering to the law and the oral traditions that they tore their clothes screamed to God in the streets and vowed to have him killed…they were quite…um…passionate you might say about adhering to the law. At other times they slaughter entire villages and didn’t even keep the goods left by them because they considered it tainted.
So yes…I’m sorry you must go back and research…the biblical history does back up the fact that there are and were times when some were very strict in adhering to the law.
There were Atheists in the times of the Old Testament…there was non-jews that followed Jewish law…there were people that worshiped a cow…there were people that probably just built the temples for the Egyptians and went home had some wine and fell asleep
almost all of human history shows this to be the case…the rejection or refusal to believe in him has been around it didn’t just become into being in the 50’s because someone finally got smart???
Do you think that everyone was convinced to believe in a God they couldn’t see? I’m a Christian and even I don’t believe that to be true and nothing in history backs up that statement…they just didn’t seem to have the notion to build Temples, Kingdoms, and father nations to pronounce their…well…their belief in not believing in anything.
I however and completely baffled as to why seriously why someone that did not believe anything other than earthly consequences for actions would not be doing anything other than reading SCRIPTURES! WoW! I’d have to tell you…I’d be rolling through sin alley and reading scriptures only to find out what I could actually get away with now!
I mean you can be a relatively decent person and not obey any laws of scripture…see you could cheat on your taxes and as long as the IRS didn’t find out…no consequences…you could LUST with no guilt! I mean come on lust! That’s an easy sin I’d be all over that one…I mean there are no earthly consequences for that one!
And money…wow…I’d be keeping ALL of the money from my paycheck! Let’s see…there’s lots more…but I’m just really confused have you read all that you CAN’T do under the scriptures?
You have to not lust, not covet…not be jealous…not this not that…you should read A.J. Jacobs book Living Biblically for a Year…he’s an agnostic and wrote the book…quite interesting…and I think he shows what a complete drag it is to follow the bible without having the benefit of love behind it all. But that’s just my opinion.
More blessings to you…hope that doesn’t offend you…but I myself questioned the existence of God and studied scripture, scientology, zen, mormonism, catholics, and even the church of Bob…no lie…and really found out that all along God was talking to me…he just didn’t have the face of a Baptist preacher or George Bush…he was quite…cool and Godly.
Thanks for the talk…I’ve learned alot and now have something to discuss with my next class.
Anything else you have let me know…I’m finding you quite interesting and I mean that wholeheartedly.
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exoflare
Guest
That’s just another way to say you worship yourself.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
I’m against the belief of atheism because they are Anti-God. They believe that man can fix its own problems. That is very self centered and I’m proud to be against atheism. I believe Atheism is the ultimate form of the** Anti-Christ**, the beast 666. I also believe most of them are evil. Look at Stalin and Hitler… poor evil… men… They are also Communists… the ultimate evil… the enemy of God
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jimmy
Guest
Use simple logic. It proclaims God exists and is present to us. To say that God does not exist is the contradiction to it. Simply look at the principle of non contradiction and the principle of excluded middle and you can see why it is anti-atheist. God either is or He is not. One of those two propositions is true and the other is false. If the bible proclaims that God is then it is also making the proclamation that the contradictory statement is false.
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