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TheLittleLady
Guest
If you look on other threads, I, as a person with a very severe genetic condition, third generation in my family, finds questions like this to be offensive. Eugenics is never the answer to any problem.
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MichaelP3
Guest
According to Catholics, YES.
But rather not intrude into another’s very very personal circumstances. On a situation like that you have as much right as a begger across the street.
But rather not intrude into another’s very very personal circumstances. On a situation like that you have as much right as a begger across the street.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Sisters usually have a close relationship. There is not authority over one another, but, there is familial fraternal love.
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Vonsalza
Guest
Contraception, as the word goes, is something that impedes (contra-) the conception of a child (-ceptive).
Since Catholic couples employ NFP practices specifically because they want to limit births, then yes - NFP is unambiguously a contraceptive methodology.
Make no mistake - it’s not a “non-action”. It’s a very deliberate, planned abstinence from sex when female cycles make pregnancy a very real possibility. This is exactly why more conservative Catholic ethicists consider NFP immoral.
But we’ve had this discussion before. No need to rehash. Last word is yours, unless something else piques my interest.
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Bruised_Reed
Guest
It is a non-action or, if you’d rather, not having sex is our default action, it’s neutral. Even people who have a lot of sex spend more time not having sex. Unless you’re some kind of weirdo you’re not having sex at the moment you are reading this. That some Catholic ethicists have some scrupulosity around this subject is unfortunate, for them and the people who follow their teaching.
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QwertyGirl
Guest
4 kids at 24 years of age is reason enough for your sister to consider how to prevent a fifth. It is not your place to discuss this with her. It is between a husband and wife. To have that discussion with her, inserts you into their relationship. It is wrong, unless she asks you your opinion.
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Rosie11
Guest
Doesn’t it say in the bible if you see someone sin but they don’t know it’s a sin you should tell them? Not sure if that’s completely accurate but it’s along those lines anyway
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Vonsalza
Guest
I don’t think it completely ceases either - just during those 10-15 days or so.
Husband comes home, wife says “Hey, sweetie. Wanna get a little frisky?”
Husband voices his enthusiastic assent.
Wife says “I’ve a slightly elevated chance of getting pregnant right now.”
Husband says “Oh, hey! Ya know what? I need to cut grass. after that, I’ll just have a cold shower and we can wait until later. Ya know, ‘suffering for the sake of righteousness’ and all that!”
Husband comes home, wife says “Hey, sweetie. Wanna get a little frisky?”
Husband voices his enthusiastic assent.
Wife says “I’ve a slightly elevated chance of getting pregnant right now.”
Husband says “Oh, hey! Ya know what? I need to cut grass. after that, I’ll just have a cold shower and we can wait until later. Ya know, ‘suffering for the sake of righteousness’ and all that!”
Just for the sake of full disclosure; even if we don’t use them, the body cycles the “swimmers” out periodically through our urine. It seems all men are doomed to Onan’s sin.
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MichaelP3
Guest
That is probably the best example that has ever been posted on here.Just for the sake of full disclosure; even if we don’t use them, the body cycles the “swimmers” out periodically through our urine. It seems all men are doomed to Onan’s sin.
Please read this and take a time to reflect!
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1ke
Guest
Rosie, you are mistaken that you need to be going around telling other people what is and isn’t a sin. especially those that are older than you.
We engage in fraternal correction (helping others know what is a sin) only under specific circumstances. I suggest you talk to your pastor about this before you go off trying to tell your sisters that something you don’t really understand very well is a sin.
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ProdglArchitect
Guest
NFP isn’t merely about “avoiding children.” it is about using the natural order of fertility to determine if a pregnancy is more or less likely to occur at a given time. It is as much about conception as it is avoiding conception.
For people who are having trouble conceiving, it’s a God-send, as it helps them to know when the woman is most fertile.
For people who are having trouble conceiving, it’s a God-send, as it helps them to know when the woman is most fertile.
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ProdglArchitect
Guest
Onan’s sin was willful withdrawl with the prupose of avoiding pregnancy while simultaneously attempting to engaging in the act whose end is conception.Just for the sake of full disclosure; even if we don’t use them, the body cycles the “swimmers” out periodically through our urine. It seems all men are doomed to Onan’s sin.
It was not sinful explicitly because the sperm didn’t wind up in the woman’s uterus, it was sinful because he denied the reality of the sexual act and attempted to thwart God through illicit means.
You seem to have a very childish understanding of the Catholic sexual ethic, given your comments regarding both this and NFP.
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Rosie11
Guest
Ignoring their sin would be even worse because the wages of sin is death
Galatians 6:1
Bothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression,
You who are spiritual should restore him, in a Spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on your self lest, you too be tempted.
2 Timothy 2:24-26
And the lords servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to there senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.
James 5:19-20
My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
Galatians 6:1
Bothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression,
You who are spiritual should restore him, in a Spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on your self lest, you too be tempted.
2 Timothy 2:24-26
And the lords servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to there senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.
James 5:19-20
My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
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MichaelP3
Guest
The Catholic understanding of sex is really not that hard! Just because someone doesn’t buy the understanding of the “Catholic view of good sex” does not mean they are childish. PLEASE STOP THAT.
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Vonsalza
Guest
Hahaha, maybe so. Or maybe (more likely) you feel a little stung by decent critiques of the Catholic view on things.
For many Catholic teachings there are usually some sort of higher, over-arching concepts or themes one can appeal to in order to appease objections that don’t consider “because the Church arbitrarily says so” as particularly good enough.
As it comes to sex and contraception, there doesn’t appear to be an underlying (or over-arching, if you prefer) telos to it for Catholic sexuality.
It’s not about being “open to life” because the purpose of NFP for 99.99999% (estimated) of the people that employ it, they’re using it as a tool specifically for not having a baby. And that’s not to mention the 80-90% of Catholics in the west that flat-out ignore Church teaching and use artificial contraceptives anyway because it’s far more effective at realizing the exact same intent.
It’s not about “being natural” because coitus interruptus is also banned.
What usually gets settled on is “oriented toward procreation” or some similar language which is still under contest because really how “oriented toward procreation” can a young Catholic couple be when their sexual schedule is only open during periods where pregnancy should be impossible and deliberately closed when pregnancy can be more expected to result?
The poor Catholics that see the same contraceptive intent in NFP as they do in birth control are then decried as scrupulous…
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MichaelP3
Guest
This is a very bold statement to be made for an unmarried person.
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MichaelP3
Guest
Christianity: NO
Catholicism: Yes
Catholicism: Yes
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Vico
Guest
It states that direct sterilization or contraception are morally unacceptable.
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Hoosier-Daddy
Guest
No, If you look at NFP as a whole cycle, it is choosing to have sex only in sterile times of the month. It isn’t “Well we just didn’t happen to have sex during the fertile time,” It’s we WONT have sex during the fertile time. So it is a lot like CI.Vonsalza:
It is a non-action or, if you’d rather, not having sex is our default action, it’s neutral. Even people who have a lot of sex spend more time not having sex. Unless you’re some kind of weirdo you’re not having sex at the moment you are reading this. That some Catholic ethicists have some scrupulosity around this subject is unfortunate, for them and the people who follow their teaching.
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Start
Guest
Then they shouldn’t be having sex in the first place.
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