Is contraception the answer to reducing abortions?

[1234]

How do you know?

This is on the other forum, but my assumption re gender also pertains the posters on the current threads (not on all threads on this topic on this forum–too many!)

The posters identify themselves as men on their profiles, either by their names, their hobbies and occupations (“motorcycle enthusiast”–possibly a woman, but unlikely), their blogs and web pages, their handles. Some are indeterminate. Some are referred to by name by other posters, who apparently know them.

On the other forum, a number appear to spend a LOT of time online–many posts, blogs, web pages, websites. Some have pictures and give their ages. I wonder(ed) how they spent their times–they have jobs, yes? They have significant others, spouses, kids, a life? Not clear. Some really sounded like some sort of foam-at-the mouth Catholic survivalists. I am not referring necessarily to the posters on this forum or this thread.

These observations have nothing to do with who is right or wrong, but rather who is posting what. Sociology.

FYI, I am semi-retired, married with grown children, and have quite a lot of free time.

 

[1234]

Are you drawing from this study:

Family Planning Perspectives
Volume 27, Number 2, March/April 1995
"Using Induced Abortion to Measure Contraceptive Efficacy"

No.

 

[1234]

Do you have a biology and/or chemistry background? Have you sought secular/medical information on NFP?

How do you fit NFP as a barrier when it is the only one on your list that can achieve pregnancy?

I guess I’m fascinated because I’ve never heard of monitoring your body as being a barrier. So, I am asking out of pure curiosity.

Yes to biological AND chemical AND medical background.

Your body wouldn’t be monitored. A woman’s body is monitored, constantly, with:
*
–Daily temperatures, in bed, written down, take with a special thermometer (if she’s really* careful).

–*Daily *monitoring of that cervical mucus. Is is liquid, is it tacky? Is my cervix rising? How can I tell?

–Palpating the vulva–I really love this one–apparently it changes during the cycle.

Daily constant monitoring of symptoms, temperature, mucus, vulva, temperatures–

by the women, not the men!

Abstinence is the least of this little game–it’s the turning of the women into a sort of walking hormone cycle!

This is a man’s game, not a woman’s, instituted by men for the control of women.

Once again, this is a *man’s *issue, created by and for the men. If the men had to deal with this, they’d be running to the nearest pharmacy!

 

[1234]

It makes me wonder if the AIDS numbers will increase.

The rate of HIV transmission has greatly decreased in countries which have adopted widespread use of condoms.

Check this report from the Worshop Summary on Scientific Evidence on Condom Effectiveness in STD Prevention

(STD =Sexually Transmitted Diseases)

[The page you’re looking for isn’t available | NIH: National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases

–all 49 pages of it.](The page you’re looking for isn’t available | NIH: National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases)

 

[jmcrae]

Yes to biological AND chemical AND medical background.

Do you receive at least part of your income from the sale of contraceptives and/or condoms? (ie: Do you have a personal stake in keeping people dependent on the drug industry for their family planning needs?)

Your body wouldn’t be monitored. A woman’s body is monitored, constantly, with:
*
–Daily temperatures, in bed, written down, take with a special thermometer (if she’s really* careful).

–*Daily *monitoring of that cervical mucus. Is is liquid, is it tacky? Is my cervix rising? How can I tell?

–Palpating the vulva–I really love this one–apparently it changes during the cycle.

Daily constant monitoring of symptoms, temperature, mucus, vulva, temperatures–

by the women, not the men!

It’s not nearly as complicated as you make it sound. I’ve been doing it successfully for more than 20 years now, and I have ADD - normal women should find it super-easy to do.

 

[1234]

Do you receive at least part of your income from the sale of contraceptives and/or condoms? (ie: Do you have a personal stake in keeping people dependent on the drug industry for their family planning needs?)

No.

 

[fix]

This is a man’s game, not a woman’s, instituted by men for the control of women.

Once again, this is a *man’s *issue, created by and for the men. If the men had to deal with this, they’d be running to the nearest pharmacy!

How does having knowledge of one’s body mean another controls you?

 

[fix]

I love the Catholic preoccupation with SIN–right reasons NFP is OK apparently , but practice NFP for the wrong reasons, and you SIN, even with NFP!!

Wanting to live morally does not equal preoccupation with sin.

A longitudinal study was done in England of children born after the mother had scheduled an abortion, but for some reason, did not have it performed. A high percentage of these children as adults were in jail, were felons, were mentally ill. I don’t think that their mothers felt that they had ‘glorified God’ by having these unwanted babies.

How do you define a worthy life?

 

[fix]

The rate of HIV transmission has greatly decreased in countries which have adopted widespread use of condoms.

Check this report from the Worshop Summary on Scientific Evidence on Condom Effectiveness in STD Prevention

(STD =Sexually Transmitted Diseases)

[www.niaid.nih.gov/dmid/stds/condomreport.pdf

–all 49 pages of it.](www.niaid.nih.gov/dmid/stds/condomreport.pdf)

Church’s accusers have not done the homework or are deliberately misreporting the facts

 

[1234]

It would be disingenous to purport that women’s reproductive choices have nothing to do with men.

Women’s choices should not be limited or controlled by men.

Men appear, at least on Catholic fora, to have an undue preoccupation with the church’s doctrines on conception.

 

[1234]

Not everybody agrees that murder is wrong, even though the Church thinks it is.

The church has not always done so. It supported and justified the slaughters during the crusades. It supported the murder of heretics.

It justified wars.

It just didn’t call murder–murder.

 

[1234]

Not everybody agrees that murder is wrong, even though the Church thinks it is.

Contraception is not murder.

 

[jmcrae]

Contraception is not murder.

It’s a sin, just like murder is a sin.

(Theft is also not murder; is theft therefore not a sin? )

 

[1234]

fix:
Boy, do you have it wrong.

who.int/inf-new/aids2.htm

Excerpts:

**"**Uganda’s success in reducing high HIV infection **rates is the result of high-level political commitment to HIV prevention and care, involving a wide range of partners and all sectors of society. Same-day results for HIV tests and **social marketing of condoms and self-treatment kits for sexually transmitted infections, backed up by sex education programmes, have helped reduce very high HIV infection rates.'

"Since 1990, a USAID-funded scheme to increase condom use through social marketing of condoms has boosted condom use from 7% nationwide to over 50% in rural areas and over 85% in urban areas. The social marketing scheme involved sales of condoms at subsidized prices or free distribution by both the government and the private sector. The scheme was also backed up by health education and other public information. Meanwhile more teenage girls reported condom use than any other age group – a trend reflected in falling infection rates among 13-19 year old girls in Masaka, in rural Uganda. And among 15-year-old boys and girls, the proportion who had never had sex rose from about 20% to 50% between 1989 and 1995.

(emphasis mine in second excerpt).

 

[mikew262]

It’s a sin

But should it be? Especially, the non-abortive type? This perplexes many people, including Catholics. From what I can see, biblical support for it is pretty weak.

 

[jmcrae]

But should it be? Especially, the non-abortive type? This perplexes many people, including Catholics. From what I can see, biblical support for it is pretty weak.

It’s a sin because it interferes with the unitive aspect of the sex act.

If you have ever used a condom, you know exactly what I’m talking about; that particular awkwardness is not part of the sex act as God designed it to be.

 

[mikew262]

It’s a sin because it interferes with the unitive aspect of the sex act.

If you have ever used a condom, you know exactly what I’m talking about; that particular awkwardness is not part of the sex act as God designed it to be.

Yes, I’ve used a condom, thankfully, for not a very long time.

Anyway, I sometimes wonder if the Church gets a little too much involved. If a married couple is not ready for a child or have 5 kids already, and don’t want anymore, then I see no issue with the couple using contraception if thats what they want to do.

Of course, using them as a weapon against AIDS and STDs I think makes perfect sense. Abstinence should always be emphasized first, but the other IMO should be an option.

I know I’m getting off topic and I’ve argued this position before, so I’ll stop here.

IMO, I think the potential sin of contraception and the sin of abortion (except for a couple of narrowly defined circumstances) are on the opposite ends of the sin severity scale. There is no comparison.

 

[jmcrae]

Yes, I’ve used a condom, thankfully, for not a very long time.

Anyway, I sometimes wonder if the Church gets a little too much involved.

It’s not like the Pope is hiding under people’s beds, or anything.

If a married couple is not ready for a child or have 5 kids already, and don’t want anymore, then I see no issue with the couple using contraception if thats what they want to do.

It’s better for them spiritually (and physically, also, IMHO) to use NFP, rather than either loading up their bodies with various different kinds of poison and throwing their hormones out of balance, or adding extra awkwardnesses to the sex act that don’t belong there, and interfering with their spiritual unity as a couple.

Of course, using them as a weapon against AIDS and STDs I think makes perfect sense. Abstinence should always be emphasized first, but the other IMO should be an option.

It’s always there, of course. People are selling them already - they aren’t waiting for the Church to approve of them, so I don’t see why Church approval is necessary, in that case, especially since the Church is more than on record as disapproving of sex outside of marriage, period and full stop, which is the best prevention for AIDS and STDs - condoms only protect one partner; chastity protects both.

 

[manualman]

Yes to biological AND chemical AND medical background.

Your body wouldn’t be monitored. A *woman’s *body is monitored, constantly, with:

–Daily temperatures, in bed, written down, take with a special thermometer (if she’s* really* careful).

–*Daily *monitoring of that cervical mucus. Is is liquid, is it tacky? Is my cervix rising? How can I tell?

–Palpating the vulva–I really love this one–apparently it changes during the cycle.

Daily constant monitoring of symptoms, temperature, mucus, vulva, temperatures–

by the women, not the men!

Abstinence is the least of this little game–it’s the turning of the women into a sort of walking hormone cycle!

This is a man’s game, not a woman’s, instituted by men for the control of women.

Once again, this is a *man’s *issue, created by and for the men. If the men had to deal with this, they’d be running to the nearest pharmacy!

Lord have mercy, you’ve simply taken the word “abortion” out of Planned Parenthood’s argument and inserted “contraception” with little extra thought or reflection.

Face it, MEN are the primary beneficiaries of contraception. Unless you’ve totally drunk the PC Koolaid, its obvious men and women are wired differently. The crass version is “Men give love to get sex, women give sex to get love.” Rather over-simplified, but like many generalizations, it has a kernel of truth.

So who benefits MOST from technology that allows wanton promiscuity with no strings attached? Women? Please.

You rather exaggerate the burden too. My wife and I practice Billing Method, which is entirely mucus observation based. Her burden is to wipe a bit deeper twice a day when she pees and report the mucus consistency. My job is to record it and confer on conclusions. Such suffering! Clearly she would be better off pumping chemicals that cause weight gain, blood clots and supression of libido into her system. Guess I’ll rush home now and tell her!

 

[RWMorris]

Contraception is not murder.

It is if it is abortive, such as the pill or IUDs or the morning after pill.