Is crying it out abuse?

[Rico_S]

Stay away from this woman. She is dangerous to your family. I would cut all ties now, especially since she is already accusing you of abusive inclinations.
.

For emphasis, I am quoting this. I would stay far, far away from this person.

 

[MomaMary8]

I should have clarified obviously a child tells you when they are hungry and their diaper is soiled. I thought some things were obvious unsaid.

That’s not the issue. I’m talking about a baby who’s fed, changed not sick etc but wants to be held. Attachment parenting teaches you should
Give into your babies wants and blur s he line between wants and needs.

And because I make that distinction my friend thinks I’m wrong.

I don’t judge those who use AP that’s fine the more that AP the more advantage my child will have lol sounds harsh maybe but it’s the laws of nature.

Ironically my friends child is so ill behaved always cranky, super clingy needy and kind of weird she hides behind her mothers hair, rarely talks she just tugs at her mother and just makes whiney noises all the time. The kid is 3!

I think I’ve seen enough.

There seems to be parental judgement going both ways in your relationship with this friend. Perhaps her judgmental nature is attracted to a similar personality??

I have had enough children to know how little I really know. I wish you well in your parenting journey and hope your methods work for all your children!

 

[HoneyBea]

There seems to be parental judgement going both ways in your relationship with this friend. Perhaps her judgmental nature is attracted to a similar personality??

I have had enough children to know how little I really know. I wish you well in your parenting journey and hope your methods work for all your children!

You’re wrong.

I have never judged her, not brought up the topic of her parenting skills. I have always supported her and told her she is a wonderful loving mother. She often complains about how tired she is and how frustrated she is with her daughter. I listen and never offer my own opinion because I know it’s not her method. I simply support her.

But If someone is going to bully me into AP then I am
Going make certain observation before discerning if I should in fact use AP. Based on the example she provides I say no thank you very much : )

 

[MomaMary8]

I should have clarified obviously a child tells you when they are hungry and their diaper is soiled. I thought some things were obvious unsaid.

That’s not the issue. I’m talking about a baby who’s fed, changed not sick etc but wants to be held. **Attachment parenting teaches you should
Give into your babies wants and blur s he line between wants and needs.
**
And because I make that distinction my friend thinks I’m wrong.

I don’t judge those who use AP that’s fine the more that AP the more advantage my child will have lol sounds harsh maybe but it’s the laws of nature.

Ironically my friends child is so ill behaved always cranky, super clingy needy and kind of weird she hides behind her mothers hair, rarely talks she just tugs at her mother and just makes whiney noises all the time. The kid is 3!

is this a direct result of attachment parenting?? Is this child’s behavior indicative of all children raised with attachment parenting?

I think I’ve seen enough.

The above seem rather judgmental to me. Sounds like you need to avoid this friendship if it is causing you to be uncharitable about other parenting choices. Your “friend” may be a poor example of attachment parenting and may be judgmental herself, but you do not need to be her foil.

Avoid this “friend” and give yourself some peace of mind.

God bless

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

What I don’t understand is why this lady feels so defensive and pushy about her view. Maybe she’s trying to convince herself of something hmmmm

Some women can get extremely defensive about their method of parenting and feel the need to push it onto others. I think it is best to not engage in arguments over it. Don’t question her stype if you see she is weird about it, do your thing and don’t explain yourself.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

I think this word is often misunderstood or misused. I made the mistake of using this word and was immediately attacked and bullied. Perhaps I should have been more careful and I agree its important to make distinctions because “crying it out” can be abuse under certain circumstances. So its important that people know the difference.

I stated that I was fine with letting a baby cry it out. I did not mean that I would just ignore my baby crying for endless hours and just shut the door, but more of a controlled crying technique. Where I would come back in the room check on them, etc.

Anyhow I am being made to feel like I am some child abuser and a terrible mother by a friend who adheres to attachment parenting. I am not comfortable with my child dictating our schedule and what she needs. If my child knows what is best for her and what her needs are than why does she need a parent at all?

I’d like everyone’s thoughts on this matter.

“Crying it out” as you describe isn’t abuse, it’s being a parent.

 

[UbiCaritas]

If a fairly new mama (LO is almost 2 months old) can join in here, then I’d like to say a) that it sounds like Kelfa and I have pretty similar outlooks on parenting and b) that CIO isn’t abusive, no, provided that the boundaries you described above are used (check on them periodically, make sure they aren’t cold/wet/hungry/sick/etc) and that the kid’s temperament is such that it’s amenable to that particular parenting tool. One thing I’ve learned is that not all tools work for all kids, and that you have to kind of figure it out with each kid as they grow. This isn’t to say, of course, that rules are different for each kid…just that your approach in teaching them is often going to need to be different.

DD loves to be held and cuddled, but when she was about 3 weeks old, she still wasn’t napping consistently and would get very overtired. She needed to nap, but was fighting it, and she’d reach a point of overstimulation wherein just being held and talked to made her more upset. She could also probably sense that if we hit hour 2 or so of her screaming, I would start to get stressed out, too, and the one fed into the other. As a result, there were several times when I would put her somewhere safe within my eyesight–a cradle or swing, or even on the floor and propped by a Boppy–and started doing something else. I’d speak softly to her while I folded laundry/cooked dinner/whatever and tell her that I loved her, but she needed to go to sleep; this would reassure her that I was still there. She’d cry for maybe 5 minutes, and then fall straight to sleep, and wake a much happier baby.

Some people would say that’s abusive, and I admit that I felt like a horrible mother the first few times I did it. My baby was crying, and I wasn’t holding her! However, I had to focus on objective reality rather than the subjective first-time-mommy-brain: she was dry, full, not in pain, not sick, and was utterly exhausted. What she needed was sleep, and sleep is a real need. Our brains–both grownups’ and babies’–don’t function correctly without sleep. I think we tend to ignore this fact in today’s too-busy world. My holding her wouldn’t help her sleep; letting her cry for a few minutes without being stimulated by my touch and smell would help her sleep, and wouldn’t hurt her, so it was the right choice.

I might add that once I figured that out and her naps got more consistent, she started sleeping much longer at night, which meant that I slept much longer at night and became a far better mother. I think she’d rather have a cheerful, happy mama who’s gotten at least almost enough sleep than a depressed, anxious, weepy, raging mother who hasn’t gotten more than two hours’ sleep at a time in a week and who’s so tired she’s falling straight into REM sleep while sitting upright and holding the baby. Scary. And while I admit that I need sleep more than some do, I can’t imagine that my experience of sleep deprivation is an anomaly. Now imagine feeling all those things while being a tiny newborn who can’t even understand that she feels those things for a reason (i.e., tiredness) and do something about it; all she can do is cry about it. Yeah. Teaching a baby to sleep in whatever way works best for their personality is doing them a world of good, even if it can be hard at first.

 

[EasterJoy]

Also my child is still in utero which makes her reaction towards me even that more bizarre.

You don’t even have a child that you could have possibly abused yet? Good.

Call your local Child Protective Services, tell them you’re being warned by some local attachment parenting busybody that if you do such-and-so after your own baby comes, such as allowing your child to cry without picking her up or using any kind of corporal punishment whatsoever, they’re going to call the cops. Name her name, while you’re at it.

You might also ask what is and is not considered abusive parenting in their jurisdiction. Ask if they have parenting classes that outline what sorts of parenting methods are considered effective and legitimate now and which of things done when your parents were children are no longer permitted, so you’ll know.

 

[HoneyBea]

The above seem rather judgmental to me. Sounds like you need to avoid this friendship if it is causing you to be uncharitable about other parenting choices. Your “friend” may be a poor example of attachment parenting and may be judgmental herself, but you do not need to be her foil.

Avoid this “friend” and give yourself some peace of mind.

God bless

Thanks for advice. I will consider what you say.

She is not my only friend who does AP. I live in a community were AP is all the rage and I have seen the behaviors of these children and all I can say without sounding judgmental is that is most definitely NOT what I want for my children. Not to mention all the mothers are miserable. There are some AP methods I embrace and Im actually thankful that this movement has brought attention to many issues such as holding your child more, breastfeeding etc. but as with anything you have the extremes and that is what I am avoiding. I have seen the results it produces in several families. Frightening actually and the worst part is they cant even see it themselves. They justify away all the behaviors.

 

[bitterhope]

Thanks for advice. I will consider what you say.

She is not my only friend who does AP. I live in a community were AP is all the rage and I have seen the behaviors of these children and all I can say without sounding judgmental is that is most definitely NOT what I want for my children. Not to mention all the mothers are miserable. There are some AP methods I embrace and Im actually thankful that this movement has brought attention to many issues such as holding your child more, breastfeeding etc. but as with anything you have the extremes and that is what I am avoiding. I have seen the results it produces in several families. Frightening actually and the worst part is they cant even see it themselves. They justify away all the behaviors.

I find it is best not to stick too rigidly to any particular method of child rearing. I guess I sort of follow certain parts of AP, such as carrying my little ones in a rebozo and breastfeeding beyond 12 months, but I don’t go to the extreme. I also own a stroller and have given bottles at times. I do spank when necessary and many of my kids preferred to sleep alone and fuss a little as they were going to sleep. We do cloth diaper, but I use disposables when we are out of the house and over night (they sleep better). As time goes by, see what works for you and your baby and not what a particular book or method says works best. The most important thing is you don’t spoil or neglect your kids–both are equally harmful. I tend to be very strict with my kids (kind of have too, I have too many to let them run wild or cater to them), but I do pick my battles. I’ve met lots of moms that are judgmental like your friend and I find it very sad. It would be so much better if we offered support instead if unsolicited advice.

 

[Kit15]

Hopping on the it depends wagon.

I used to answer every cry my girl made initially. But it got to the point where it was actually doing more harm. Getting her to sleep could take up to two hours as her cries went from wanting comfort to total uncontrollable screaming meltdown from sleep deprivation. If it got to that point, she’d scream whether I was holding her or not.

While If I waited just 5 minutes instead of 5 seconds, she’d just go to sleep. It’s the hardest thing to do sometimes. But 5 minutes of tears is much better than two hours and nothing but a SCREAMING child to show for it, and an equally sleep-deprived and grumpy mommy.

 

[EasterJoy]

I find it is best not to stick too rigidly to any particular method of child rearing. I guess I sort of follow certain parts of AP, such as carrying my little ones in a rebozo and breastfeeding beyond 12 months, but I don’t go to the extreme. I also own a stroller and have given bottles at times. I do spank when necessary and many of my kids preferred to sleep alone and fuss a little as they were going to sleep. We do cloth diaper, but I use disposables when we are out of the house and over night (they sleep better). As time goes by, see what works for you and your baby and not what a particular book or method says works best. The most important thing is you don’t spoil or neglect your kids–both are equally harmful. I tend to be very strict with my kids (kind of have too, I have too many to let them run wild or cater to them), but I do pick my battles. I’ve met lots of moms that are judgmental like your friend and I find it very sad. It would be so much better if we offered support instead if unsolicited advice.

Oh, yes. It is not uncommon for Child #1 and Child #2 to lure their parents into thinking they are baby experts, only to have Child #3 come along and make them re-write their whole book! (Oh, and yes, this is very entertaining when it isn’t you!)

 

[bitterhope]

Oh, yes. It is not uncommon for Child #1 and Child #2 to lure their parents into thinking they are baby experts, only to have Child #3 come along and make them re-write their whole book! (Oh, and yes, this is very entertaining when it isn’t you!)

Yeah, I was very opposed to cosleeping until my oldest wouldn’t sleep unless he was nursing. If I co slept, I got to sleep. Then came #2 and he wouldn’t co sleep. He loved his cradle. #3 took the dreaded pacifier. #4 hated the stroller. Probably the hardest for me to deal with though was the twins. Believe me, if I hadn’t learned that crying does a baby good sometimes I think I would have gone crazy! I am happy to say that I have enough kids to realize that I know nothing about parenting and I will never be an expert.

 

[AussieTrish]

I think that there is no hard and fast rule, but have read of some of the problems of leaving babies to cry it out. A few links with both sides of the discussion, so really it is a question that no one can answer for anyone else in every case.

psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201112/dangers-crying-it-out

babycenter.com/404_are-we-damaging-our-baby-by-letting-him-cry-himself-to-sleep_2644.bc

edition.cnn.com/2013/01/24/health/child-sleep-debate-enayati/

psychcentral.com/news/2013/01/05/new-research-supports-letting-babies-cry-themselves-back-to-sleep/50054.html

 

[Miserissima]

Find what works for you and baby. It may take trial and error, and the inconsistency is going to be tough. And don’t forget, you can adapt any model to what works for you at any time.

Read the literature lightly and be open enough to try something new. Go with your instincts and don’t fear asking for help…which is different from listening to advice. The first is practical, the second is theoretical.

For example, I learned not to invite criticism when I asked for help. “Would you mind watching the baby while I nap?” is a different question from, “I haven’t slept in three days and am going to cry for a hour while someone else watches the baby for me please!”

Unsolicited advice was everywhere, and post partum moms have to have healthy boundaries with others to bond with their babies. The more anxious a Mom is about her choices directly affects bonding because Mom can be over or under responsive based on “advice.” I received a sixteen page email from a Mom who had a fit that we left a lamp on in baby’s room because light pollution causes cancer…

My tiny concern is, “I am not comfortable with my child dictating our schedule and what she needs.” What age are you referring to? Infant? Toddler? Pre schooler? (I’m not challenging you, I just want to be sure that I’m understanding you.)

Now for the obligatory anecdote:

Both of my boys are so different. One baby needed a swing rocker and gentle motion, and had a clockwork schedule. The other would wake up and fuss if he only thought he felt your gaze on him. In the dark. (Not really, but the second boy needed constant peace, even in utero.) He also refused to be swaddled at sleep time, so he would startle himself awake. Sometimes he wanted to be soothed, other times I just had to let him cry it out until THEN he wanted to be soothed. I spent more time praying over that one because I felt that I couldn’t do anything right, no matter what, so I had to let him take the lead and be as responsive as I could when he was ready. Those boys, as babies, were night and day!

 

[DeniseNY]

You don’t even have a child that you could have possibly abused yet? Good.

Call your local Child Protective Services, tell them you’re being warned by some local attachment parenting busybody that if you do such-and-so after your own baby comes, such as allowing your child to cry without picking her up or using any kind of corporal punishment whatsoever, they’re going to call the cops. Name her name, while you’re at it.

You might also ask what is and is not considered abusive parenting in their jurisdiction. Ask if they have parenting classes that outline what sorts of parenting methods are considered effective and legitimate now and which of things done when your parents were children are no longer permitted, so you’ll know.

Oh yes, you should definitely do this. Who knows how much trouble this woman (who I’m sorry to say, sounds like a nut) will try to cause for you once the baby is here. Give CPS a call, tell them the threat that was made, and then cut all ties with her.

 

[PPeterson]

Hello OP,

Your baby’s temperament will probably decide how practical AP is. If he/she likes to cuddle, or sleeps like a little angel after a minute of kitten like mewing, then just naturally sort of transitions to sleeping through the night AP will work great. If he/she howls like a banshee no matter what you do and will only barely get a few moments of light sleep under perfect conditions; all of which involve you sitting up and holding him/her, you are going to have to eventually do some form of cry it out before you lose your mind.

If you are lucky enough to have all babies more like the first example, then you can join the ranks of insufferable mothers who attribute their success to their own phenomenal child rearing skills.

I’ve had both styles of babies.Congratulations on the new baby!

 

[TraderTif]

Crying it out had better not be abuse, or I’m a terrible parent!!!

Our baby is 1 year old (and #2 is due in September!). When she was first born, I raced to her every cry. By the time she was 3 or 4 months old, this meant that I spent upwards of an hour putting her down to sleep, and then she’d wake up 1-3 times during the night, where I’d spend 30-90 minutes each, because she’d cry as soon as I put her down. I was about ready to lose my mind!!! Until one night, when she was crying…and nature called, and I just had to run to the bathroom, crying or no crying. And that’s where I learned that she wailed for about 3 minutes, before promptly rolling over and falling asleep. I couldn’t believe it!!! I tried it the next night, with the same results. We’ve done it ever since, and I don’t think she’s ever cried longer than 10 minutes.

(Now, I’ve come to learn the sound of her cries, and if she gets frantic, then I check on her. If she cries unusually long, then I check on her. And I have her on video monitor, so I can keep an eye on her. I have no plans to let her cry for long periods of time. But I totally don’t agree with those people who think that allowing a child to cry at ALL, for ANY length of time, is some sort of abuse!! I mean, she sleeps a LOT better, and we sleep a LOT better, so everyone is happier. What could be the problem?!?!??)

 

[HoneyBea]

Find what works for you and baby. It may take trial and error, and the inconsistency is going to be tough. And don’t forget, you can adapt any model to what works for you at any time.

Read the literature lightly and be open enough to try something new. Go with your instincts and don’t fear asking for help…which is different from listening to advice. The first is practical, the second is theoretical.

For example, I learned not to invite criticism when I asked for help. “Would you mind watching the baby while I nap?” is a different question from, “I haven’t slept in three days and am going to cry for a hour while someone else watches the baby for me please!”

Unsolicited advice was everywhere, and post partum moms have to have healthy boundaries with others to bond with their babies. The more anxious a Mom is about her choices directly affects bonding because Mom can be over or under responsive based on “advice.” I received a sixteen page email from a Mom who had a fit that we left a lamp on in baby’s room because light pollution causes cancer…

My tiny concern is, “I am not comfortable with my child dictating our schedule and what she needs.” What age are you referring to? Infant? Toddler? Pre schooler? (I’m not challenging you, I just want to be sure that I’m understanding you.)

Now for the obligatory anecdote:

Both of my boys are so different. One baby needed a swing rocker and gentle motion, and had a clockwork schedule. The other would wake up and fuss if he only thought he felt your gaze on him. In the dark. (Not really, but the second boy needed constant peace, even in utero.) He also refused to be swaddled at sleep time, so he would startle himself awake. Sometimes he wanted to be soothed, other times I just had to let him cry it out until THEN he wanted to be soothed. I spent more time praying over that one because I felt that I couldn’t do anything right, no matter what, so I had to let him take the lead and be as responsive as I could when he was ready. Those boys, as babies, were night and day!

Great advice everyone thank you and I agree with all the posters my child’s personality and temperament will determine the approach I take. Im very aware of that and have not made any decisions on what and how I’m going to handle my child because I can’t possibly know that at this point at that is totally fine. I have zero anxieties about it but I do know what I don’t want to do and that is AP parenting. I am an open minded person and smart enough to know there is no one way to raise a child but like I said I’ve seen enough of AP in action and the results it produces to know that will
Not for our family.

As far as my comment that concerns you I wasn’t referring to any age really because it was just an off the cuff remark but now that I think about it once she or he is old enough to comprehend and follow some basic rules obviously a newborn/infant can not do this. Our child will be part of our family and be an active participant not a dictator.

 

[HoneyBea]

Find what works for you and baby. It may take trial and error, and the inconsistency is going to be tough. And don’t forget, you can adapt any model to what works for you at any time.

Read the literature lightly and be open enough to try something new. Go with your instincts and don’t fear asking for help…which is different from listening to advice. The first is practical, the second is theoretical.

For example, I learned not to invite criticism when I asked for help. “Would you mind watching the baby while I nap?” is a different question from, “I haven’t slept in three days and am going to cry for a hour while someone else watches the baby for me please!”

Unsolicited advice was everywhere, and post partum moms have to have healthy boundaries with others to bond with their babies. The more anxious a Mom is about her choices directly affects bonding because Mom can be over or under responsive based on “advice.” I received a sixteen page email from a Mom who had a fit that we left a lamp on in baby’s room because light pollution causes cancer…

My tiny concern is, “I am not comfortable with my child dictating our schedule and what she needs.” What age are you referring to? Infant? Toddler? Pre schooler? (I’m not challenging you, I just want to be sure that I’m understanding you.)

Now for the obligatory anecdote:

Both of my boys are so different. One baby needed a swing rocker and gentle motion, and had a clockwork schedule. The other would wake up and fuss if he only thought he felt your gaze on him. In the dark. (Not really, but the second boy needed constant peace, even in utero.) He also refused to be swaddled at sleep time, so he would startle himself awake. Sometimes he wanted to be soothed, other times I just had to let him cry it out until THEN he wanted to be soothed. I spent more time praying over that one because I felt that I couldn’t do anything right, no matter what, so I had to let him take the lead and be as responsive as I could when he was ready. Those boys, as babies, were night and day!

Great advice everyone thank you and I agree with all the posters my child’s personality and temperament will determine the approach I take. Im very aware of that and have not made any decisions on what and how I’m going to handle my child because I can’t possibly know that at this point at that is totally fine. I have zero anxieties about it but I do know what I don’t want to do and that is AP parenting. I am an open minded person and smart enough to know there is no one way to raise a child but like I said I’ve seen enough of AP in action and the results it produces to know that will
Not work for our family.

As far as my comment that concerns you I wasn’t referring to any age really because it was just an off the cuff remark but now that I think about it once she or he is old enough to comprehend and follow some basic rules obviously a newborn/infant can not do this. Our child will be part of our family and be an active participant not a dictator.