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anon65111186
Guest
On Catholic Answers forums?
Man I don’t know what the admins will think of that… but it sure takes up a lot of bandwidth and storage space, especially if there are big image files etc 
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Man I don’t know what the admins will think of that… but it sure takes up a lot of bandwidth and storage space, especially if there are big image files etc
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IWantGod
Guest
The Problem with the YEC point of view is that you basically have to dismantle the scientific method and do away with science all together in order for the YEC to sound even remotely plausible.
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edwest211
Guest
Again, this appears to be just talk. Scientists go to work, do their jobs and so on. Lots of people make unusual claims which are ineffective regarding scientific work.
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buffalo
Guest
Perhaps you can show me observable, repeatable and predictable empirical science in evolution.
And then we have ID
FAQ: Does intelligent design make predictions? Is it testable?
http://www.ideacenter.org/content1156.html
And then we have ID
FAQ: Does intelligent design make predictions? Is it testable?
http://www.ideacenter.org/content1156.html
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IWantGod
Guest
I guess its time for me to upload that 60 terabyte image file of a Neanderthal. Maybe then…just maybe this discussion will come to a close. Here’s to dreaming.On Catholic Answers forums?
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edwest211
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I’m a moderator on another forum. A lot of time and bandwidth is taken up with people arguing about things I have no interest in, and that’s been going on for a long time. They’ll try to post anything or find loopholes in the rules. Lucky for me, I can remind them about the rules or just hit delete.
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Techno2000
Guest
Are you all seriously still going on about this thread, haven’t you reached a definitive conclusion yet?
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anon65111186
Guest
Nice one, I like this one too
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Aloysium
Guest
There’s no we in such matters. I’ve reached a conclusion about the failure of Darwinism. As to how God did all this, it is an ongoing revelation.Are you all seriously still going on about this thread, haven’t you reached a definitive conclusion yet?
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rossum
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Certainly. Here are two:
Now please show me observable, repeatable and predictable empirical science in ID.
rossum
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LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
I have cited a source of just such evidence, but you refused to look at it because…reasons?
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edwest211
Guest
The Lederberg Experiment proves nothing.
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buffalo
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For the record - these are your best offering?
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rossum
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The Lederberg Experiment provides evidence to support the hypothesis that mutations are random, not directed.
Proof is for mathematics. Science works on evidence.
Where is your experimental evidence that some designer is directing mutations?
rossum
Proof is for mathematics. Science works on evidence.
Where is your experimental evidence that some designer is directing mutations?
rossum
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rossum
Guest
For the record, you provided nothing when I asked you for “observable, repeatable and predictable empirical science in ID.”
I provided something, which you have given no reason for rejecting apart from personal opinion. You have provided nothing in return.
You are behind so far, buffalo. I provided references to answer your question; you provided nothing to answer mine.
rossum
I provided something, which you have given no reason for rejecting apart from personal opinion. You have provided nothing in return.
You are behind so far, buffalo. I provided references to answer your question; you provided nothing to answer mine.
rossum
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buffalo
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Once again, is this the best you have to offer before I rebutt? It is a yes or no answer.
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Aloysium
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Please clarify what evidence you think supports specifically randomness.
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buffalo
Guest
Provided in 609
Table 1. Ways Designers Act When Designing (Observations): Intelligent agents …
(1) Take many parts and arrange them in highly specified and complex patterns which perform a specific function.
“Experience teaches that information-rich systems … invariably result from intelligent causes, not naturalistic ones. … Finding the best explanation, however, requires invoking causes that have the power to produce the effect in question. When it comes to information, we know of only one such cause. For this reason, the biology of the information age now requires a new science of design.”
(Stephen C. Meyer, “The Explanatory Power of Design,” in Mere Creation, pg. 140 (William A. Dembski ed., InterVarsity Press 1998))
“Agents can arrange matter with distant goals in mind. In their use of language, they routinely ‘find’ highly isolated and improbable functional sequences amid vast spaces of combinatorial possibilities.”
(Stephen C. Meyer, “The Cambrian Information Explosion,” Debating Design, pg. 388 (Dembski and Ruse eds., Cambridge University Press 2004).
“Indeed, in all cases where we know the causal origin of ‘high information content,’ experience has shown that intelligent design played a causal role.”
(Stephen C. Meyer, DNA and Other Designs)
(2) Rapidly infuse large amounts of information into a system, such that a system might undergo rapid and radical changes in form and function.
“Intelligent design provides a sufficient causal explanation for the origin of large amounts of information, since we have considerable experience of intelligent agents generating informational configurations of matter.”
(Meyer S. C. et. al., “The Cambrian Explosion: Biology’s Big Bang,” in Darwinism, Design, and Public Education, edited by J. A. Campbell and S. C. Meyer (Michigan State University Press, 2003)
(3) ‘Re-use parts’ over-and-over in different systems (design upon a common blueprint).
“An intelligent cause may reuse or redeploy the same module in different systems, without there necessarily being any material or physical connection between those systems. Even more simply, intelligent causes can generate identical patterns independently: We do so, for instance, every time we sign a bank check or credit card slip” (Nelson and Wells, Homology in Biology, in Darwinism, Design, and Public Education, pg. 316, 318 (John Angus Campbell, ed. Michigan State University Press 2003).
(4) Be said to typically NOT create completely functionless objects or parts (although we may sometimes think something is functionless, but not realize its true function).
Table 2. Predictions of Design (Hypothesis):
(1) High information content machine-like irreducibly complex structures will be found.
(2) Forms will be found in the fossil record that appear suddenly and without any precursors.
(3) Genes and functional parts will be re-used in different unrelated organisms.
(4) The genetic code will NOT contain much discarded genetic baggage code or functionless “junk DNA”.
Table 1. Ways Designers Act When Designing (Observations): Intelligent agents …
(1) Take many parts and arrange them in highly specified and complex patterns which perform a specific function.
“Experience teaches that information-rich systems … invariably result from intelligent causes, not naturalistic ones. … Finding the best explanation, however, requires invoking causes that have the power to produce the effect in question. When it comes to information, we know of only one such cause. For this reason, the biology of the information age now requires a new science of design.”
(Stephen C. Meyer, “The Explanatory Power of Design,” in Mere Creation, pg. 140 (William A. Dembski ed., InterVarsity Press 1998))
“Agents can arrange matter with distant goals in mind. In their use of language, they routinely ‘find’ highly isolated and improbable functional sequences amid vast spaces of combinatorial possibilities.”
(Stephen C. Meyer, “The Cambrian Information Explosion,” Debating Design, pg. 388 (Dembski and Ruse eds., Cambridge University Press 2004).
“Indeed, in all cases where we know the causal origin of ‘high information content,’ experience has shown that intelligent design played a causal role.”
(Stephen C. Meyer, DNA and Other Designs)
(2) Rapidly infuse large amounts of information into a system, such that a system might undergo rapid and radical changes in form and function.
“Intelligent design provides a sufficient causal explanation for the origin of large amounts of information, since we have considerable experience of intelligent agents generating informational configurations of matter.”
(Meyer S. C. et. al., “The Cambrian Explosion: Biology’s Big Bang,” in Darwinism, Design, and Public Education, edited by J. A. Campbell and S. C. Meyer (Michigan State University Press, 2003)
(3) ‘Re-use parts’ over-and-over in different systems (design upon a common blueprint).
“An intelligent cause may reuse or redeploy the same module in different systems, without there necessarily being any material or physical connection between those systems. Even more simply, intelligent causes can generate identical patterns independently: We do so, for instance, every time we sign a bank check or credit card slip” (Nelson and Wells, Homology in Biology, in Darwinism, Design, and Public Education, pg. 316, 318 (John Angus Campbell, ed. Michigan State University Press 2003).
(4) Be said to typically NOT create completely functionless objects or parts (although we may sometimes think something is functionless, but not realize its true function).
Table 2. Predictions of Design (Hypothesis):
(1) High information content machine-like irreducibly complex structures will be found.
(2) Forms will be found in the fossil record that appear suddenly and without any precursors.
(3) Genes and functional parts will be re-used in different unrelated organisms.
(4) The genetic code will NOT contain much discarded genetic baggage code or functionless “junk DNA”.
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buffalo
Guest
Table 3. Examining the Evidence (Experiment and Conclusion):
Line of Evidence
Data (Experiment)
Prediction of Design Met? (Conclusion)
(1) Biochemical complexity / Laws of the Universe. High information content machine-like irreducibly complex structures are commonly found. The bacterial flagellum is a prime example. Specified complexity found in the laws of the universe may be another.
Yes.
(2) Fossil Record Biological complexity (i.e. new species) tend to appear in the fossil record suddenly and without any similar precursors. The Cambrian explosion is a prime example.
Yes.
(3) Distribution of Molecular and Morphological Characteristics Similar parts found in different organisms. Many genes and functional parts not distributed in a manner predicted by ancestry, and are often found in clearly unrelated organisms. The “root” of the tree of life is a prime example.
Yes.
(4) DNA Biochemical and Biological Functionality Increased knowledge of genetics has created a strong trend towards functionality for “junk-DNA.” Examples include recently discovered functionality in some pseudogenes, microRNAs, introns, LINE and ALU elements. Examples of DNA of unknown function persist, but discovery of function may be expected (or lack of current function still explainable under a design paradigm).
Yes.
Line of Evidence
Data (Experiment)
Prediction of Design Met? (Conclusion)
(1) Biochemical complexity / Laws of the Universe. High information content machine-like irreducibly complex structures are commonly found. The bacterial flagellum is a prime example. Specified complexity found in the laws of the universe may be another.
Yes.
(2) Fossil Record Biological complexity (i.e. new species) tend to appear in the fossil record suddenly and without any similar precursors. The Cambrian explosion is a prime example.
Yes.
(3) Distribution of Molecular and Morphological Characteristics Similar parts found in different organisms. Many genes and functional parts not distributed in a manner predicted by ancestry, and are often found in clearly unrelated organisms. The “root” of the tree of life is a prime example.
Yes.
(4) DNA Biochemical and Biological Functionality Increased knowledge of genetics has created a strong trend towards functionality for “junk-DNA.” Examples include recently discovered functionality in some pseudogenes, microRNAs, introns, LINE and ALU elements. Examples of DNA of unknown function persist, but discovery of function may be expected (or lack of current function still explainable under a design paradigm).
Yes.
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buffalo
Guest
Is intelligent design a scientific theory?
Yes. The scientific method is commonly described as a four-step process involving observations, hypothesis, experiments, and conclusion. Intelligent design begins with the observation that intelligent agents produce complex and specified information (CSI). Design theorists hypothesize that if a natural object was designed, it will contain high levels of CSI. Scientists then perform experimental tests upon natural objects to determine if they contain complex and specified information. One easily testable form of CSI is irreducible complexity, which can be discovered by experimentally reverse-engineering biological structures to see if they require all of their parts to function. When ID researchers find irreducible complexity in biology, they conclude that such structures were designed.
Yes. The scientific method is commonly described as a four-step process involving observations, hypothesis, experiments, and conclusion. Intelligent design begins with the observation that intelligent agents produce complex and specified information (CSI). Design theorists hypothesize that if a natural object was designed, it will contain high levels of CSI. Scientists then perform experimental tests upon natural objects to determine if they contain complex and specified information. One easily testable form of CSI is irreducible complexity, which can be discovered by experimentally reverse-engineering biological structures to see if they require all of their parts to function. When ID researchers find irreducible complexity in biology, they conclude that such structures were designed.
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