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Glark
Guest
Where does it say he is an “evolutionary biologist”?
Deary, deary, deary deary me. I will pray for you.
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Glark
Guest
This is not my post
G
Glark
Guest
A dog evolving into a non-dog is not an inreasonable request - it’s called “evidence”.
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rossum
Guest
Wrong. A nested hierarchy of life on earth. Within that are three major branches: the nested hierarchy of Archaea, the nested hierarchy of Bacteria and the nested hierarchy of Eukaryotes.
Within the Eukaryotes you get the nested hierarchy of Protists, the nested hierarchy of Plants, the nested hierarchy of Fungi and the nested hierarchy of Animals.
Within the Animals you get the nested hierarchy of Amphibians, the nested hierarchy of Synapsids and the nested hierarchy of Diapsids.
Within the Synapsids… I’m sure you get the picture. Homo sapiens is a Synapsid Eukaryote, with all the standard characteristics of Eukaryotes and of Synapsids.
rossum
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rossum
Guest
For what definition of “non-dog”? The standard definition of animal species is the ability to interbreed. On that criterion, we have examples. I have already posted the Marbled Crayfish on this thread, which cannot interbreed with its ancestor species. That is the evolution of a new species.
I have already provided the evidence, and you are asking for more.
Perhaps you can reciprocate by showing us evidence of God directly creating a new species.
rossum
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
It is unreasonable when you define “dog” too broadly.LeafByNiggle:
A dog evolving into a non-dog is not an inreasonable request - it’s called “evidence”.
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benjamin1973
Guest
Well, this is a problem. In a Christian forum, the existence of God is almost axiomatic-- we are trying to figure out whether it was God who directly created species, or God who indirectly, through a mechanism following his will, which allowed for species to exist.
If you start talking about equal standards of evidence for the Bible, for the idea of God, and for evolution, then things are going to get ugly really fast. We’ll have to hear a lot of special pleading-- in particular how “inspiration” leads to “truth,” but not if it’s scientific inspiration believing in scientific things.
I’m content to take God as axiomatic, because even starting there, the evidence for evolution is so absolutely massive that only a deliberately ignorant person could not accept it, at least in my opinion.
If you start talking about equal standards of evidence for the Bible, for the idea of God, and for evolution, then things are going to get ugly really fast. We’ll have to hear a lot of special pleading-- in particular how “inspiration” leads to “truth,” but not if it’s scientific inspiration believing in scientific things.
I’m content to take God as axiomatic, because even starting there, the evidence for evolution is so absolutely massive that only a deliberately ignorant person could not accept it, at least in my opinion.
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Aloysium
Guest
Thanks for sharing.
The way I see things, the kinds and the DNA would be one and the same, it being an aspect of the kinds’ physical manifestation. Kinds, being an organizational principle that brings together those that exist ontologically below them - atoms and cells.
All existence has a triune nature reflecting that of Existence itself. It is all about relationships - something interacting/connected to something it is not, existing as itself and/or one with what is other. That’s how we, how animals, plants, one-cell creatures, the atomic and the subatomic are and function. Atoms interact in accordance to the four basic forces and the constants found in nature. Those are the “instincts” built into that level of existence. Paramecia bump around, interacting with their watery environment, ingesting what are nutrients, avoiding dangers. Plants grow their roots in the ground and reach out to the sun, as they utilize the material of which they are a part, to develop from seeds and grow to make more of their own. Animals actively seek out food and a mate, protecting themselves and many, their offspring. And, we are here discussing issues as a function of our capacity to perceive, think and even better to know, feel and act, in a holy unity with the world and Existence itself, which because we bring everything back to ourselves rather than give it all back, we cannot experience but in the most rarified moments.
Living organisms, while existing as one in themselves and in relation to their environment, operate along three dimensions. It is clearest in us since it is what we are and we need only know ourselves. On the physical side, the cellular components, granted to them by the gametes donated by their parents, which include the DNA, but also everything that necessarily goes with it, are brought together under the “kind” that would be their soul that is the unifying principle that defines their individual existence and the sort of relationships they can form. Within the environment, as small as it might be in the womb, but stretching out to cover the earth and beyond, the physical aspect of the soul incorporates external matter, beginning with that of the sperm and ovum, to form the organism. At the same time, there exists a psychological dimension which determines the sorts of perceptions, feelings, and behaviours that creature will exhibit. A basic component of mankind’s "instinctual’ life is a free will and the capacity to know - to love in other words. Within the unity that is any living thing there is what is basic to all this, a spiritual dimension - the soul that is the particular being of the creature, bringing together in a unity, within its environment, its reality - as it is known by God, the Source of all that is everywhere and in every time.
I suppose the DNA and its supporting structure, since it is useless by itself, dictates what the particular individual organism will be like as an expression of its “kind”, the particular soul of the “species”, which is Adam and Christ in our case. The DNA, thought of as being more than just stuff, but as information, can vary greatly among us, but we are all one humanity.
The way I see things, the kinds and the DNA would be one and the same, it being an aspect of the kinds’ physical manifestation. Kinds, being an organizational principle that brings together those that exist ontologically below them - atoms and cells.
All existence has a triune nature reflecting that of Existence itself. It is all about relationships - something interacting/connected to something it is not, existing as itself and/or one with what is other. That’s how we, how animals, plants, one-cell creatures, the atomic and the subatomic are and function. Atoms interact in accordance to the four basic forces and the constants found in nature. Those are the “instincts” built into that level of existence. Paramecia bump around, interacting with their watery environment, ingesting what are nutrients, avoiding dangers. Plants grow their roots in the ground and reach out to the sun, as they utilize the material of which they are a part, to develop from seeds and grow to make more of their own. Animals actively seek out food and a mate, protecting themselves and many, their offspring. And, we are here discussing issues as a function of our capacity to perceive, think and even better to know, feel and act, in a holy unity with the world and Existence itself, which because we bring everything back to ourselves rather than give it all back, we cannot experience but in the most rarified moments.
Living organisms, while existing as one in themselves and in relation to their environment, operate along three dimensions. It is clearest in us since it is what we are and we need only know ourselves. On the physical side, the cellular components, granted to them by the gametes donated by their parents, which include the DNA, but also everything that necessarily goes with it, are brought together under the “kind” that would be their soul that is the unifying principle that defines their individual existence and the sort of relationships they can form. Within the environment, as small as it might be in the womb, but stretching out to cover the earth and beyond, the physical aspect of the soul incorporates external matter, beginning with that of the sperm and ovum, to form the organism. At the same time, there exists a psychological dimension which determines the sorts of perceptions, feelings, and behaviours that creature will exhibit. A basic component of mankind’s "instinctual’ life is a free will and the capacity to know - to love in other words. Within the unity that is any living thing there is what is basic to all this, a spiritual dimension - the soul that is the particular being of the creature, bringing together in a unity, within its environment, its reality - as it is known by God, the Source of all that is everywhere and in every time.
I suppose the DNA and its supporting structure, since it is useless by itself, dictates what the particular individual organism will be like as an expression of its “kind”, the particular soul of the “species”, which is Adam and Christ in our case. The DNA, thought of as being more than just stuff, but as information, can vary greatly among us, but we are all one humanity.
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Aloysium
Guest
But she is. That’s the problem.Aloysium:
I strongly disagree with this remark.
We try to mould ourselves to be like those we admire. Her accomplishments make her someone kids would want to idealize. She has a great responsibility, and unfortunately is using her position to lead the young astray as she has been led.
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Aloysium
Guest
This works in two ways from my perspective.
First, everything is brought into existence, all time and space with everything in it at once, in the sense that God creates from eternity.
The other way would be, since I do see things as having happened in a stepwise fashion through time, that original sin transformed the universe, creating the time-line (sorry for the nerdy phrasing) that is this universe, now journeying towards reconciliation with God.
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Aloysium
Guest
The same evidence fits better with creation followed by a fall.
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buffalo
Guest
The supposed gill slits are simple folds.
B
buffalo
Guest
Platypus anyone?
B
buffalo
Guest
The pinnacle of evolution was reached a while ago. It is downhill know.
Revelation is standing strong.
Revelation is standing strong.
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buffalo
Guest
There is one more level to consider, the programming of life.
We see various operating systems used in computers as well as hardware. They can be distinguished. We also see higher level programs that can run on them. These two can be distinguished by what they do.
We see various operating systems used in computers as well as hardware. They can be distinguished. We also see higher level programs that can run on them. These two can be distinguished by what they do.
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buffalo
Guest
I have posted this often:
Imagine a rolled up tape measure. God sees it all at once. We live on the tape and have to look past the graduations.
Imagine a rolled up tape measure. God sees it all at once. We live on the tape and have to look past the graduations.
The only evidence there is that it was not noticed or known before.
The article itself compared it to cancer.
And you want us to think it progress.
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Aloysium
Guest
Trisomy X is a condition that has been identified where people have an extra X chromosome in each cell. These individuals are obviously female and tend to be taller with occasional learning and physical problems. Unlike the marble crayfish, they do not spontaneously produce clones of themselves. The genetic difference between a person with that condition and those of us with 46 chromosomes would be similar to that between the marble crayfish and its slough crayfish progenitors. But, we do not classify these human beings as a separate species; and this is not simply because they are fertile and can have children.
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rossum
Guest
People with Trisomy X are classified as human because they can breed with standard humans. Marbled Crayfish cannot breed with Slough Crayfish and can reproduce themselves. That makes them a separate species by the standard biological definition.
rossum
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