Is Darwin's Theory Of Evolution True?

[buffalo]

Yet all the different variations of hammers fulfill the same purpose, to hammer.

It illustrates perfectly a basic design building block concept.

Design explains convergent evolution very well.

 

[edwest211]

Which strongly supports design. Otherwise, various things get spit out and die, including creatures that are hit with a natural catastrophe but were otherwise perfectly suited for their environment. “A lot of time” just does not cut it.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

A good example of this process is a demonstration project on how machines can learn.

Machine learning presumes a machine.

Yes, but purpose of the demonstration was to show that information and ability can be acquired through random processes subjected to experiential selection.

The video is not convincing. It provides no insights as to how living things in a dynamic/variable environment survive, much less ‘upgrade.’ I’ve see extremely primitive, compared to humans, machine self-learning systems. They do not model the real world, and those that try to, in very limited ways, require sophisticated to highly sophisticated sensors and feedback mechanisms. Too simple.

The demonstration was not meant to have a comparable scale as living evolution. It was meant to illustrate a principle which you and buffalo deny.

Exactly Ed. The system learned to play a game with predefined rules.

No, it did not. The system started out with no knowledge of the rules of tic-tac-toe. Those rules, as well as the winning strategy, were learned though interactions with the players. Those interactions were like natural selection.

The search space was very small compared to the search space of evolution.

A difference in degree only.

Techno2000:

Is Darwin’s Theory Of Evolution True ?

So the giraffe’s neck got longer so it could find food ?

You are repeating arguments that have already been dealt with earlier in this thread. In fact I answered this specific question already.

 

[buffalo]

A giraffe neck is a perfect example of built in design. They ear both from high branches and the ground. They have long legs and need a long neck to reach the ground. They have sensors in their neck that regulate regulate blood pressure so the strong heart does not rupture their blood vessels. If the complex systems did not happen at the same time, the giraffe dies.

 

[Techno2000]

So the Polar bear’s fur turn white so it could survive in the snow ?

 

[buffalo]

No, it did not. The system started out with no knowledge of the rules of tic-tac-toe. Those rules, as well as the winning strategy, were learned though interactions with the players. Those interactions were like natural selection.

Did you watch your own video? Right at the beginning the rules were laid out.

Natural selection has no foresight.

 

[Techno2000]

A giraffe neck is a perfect example of built in design. They ear both from high branches and the ground. They have long legs and need a long neck to reach the ground. They have sensors in their neck that regulate regulate blood pressure so the strong heart does not rupture their blood vessels. If the complex systems did not happen at the same time, the giraffe dies.

I guess the food kept getting higher and higher.

 

[buffalo]

A difference in degree only.

It is easy to poo poo this difference. The difference in search space is astronomical and why the odds of evolution are so bad.

 

[rossum]

Yet all the different variations of hammers fulfill the same purpose, to hammer.

So the manufacturer was wrong to make the hammer for the purpose of making a profit?

The original hammer designer didn’t have nails, so the original purpose was probably to smash long bones to get at the marrow, no nails at all.

So many people misusing hammers. Judge Roy Moore would probably want them stoned to death or something.

rossum

 

[rossum]

So the Polar bear’s fur turn white so it could survive in the snow ?

No. Bears with pale fur survived better and had more cubs. Repeat over many generations and you get white fur, and the same for many Arctic animals.

rossum

 

[rossum]

It is easy to poo poo this difference. The difference in search space is astronomical and why the odds of evolution are so bad.

Odds is a number. Show us your calculation please. If your calculation does not include the effect of natural selection then your number is not relevant. Evolution includes natural selection; any calculation which does not include natural selection cannot correctly represent evolution.

All too often YEC websites show spurious calculations which omit natural selection, so we have learned to be suspicious of any such claims which do not show their working. Those spurious calculations are just one way YEC websites lie.

rossum

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

No, it did not. The system started out with no knowledge of the rules of tic-tac-toe. Those rules, as well as the winning strategy, were learned though interactions with the players. Those interactions were like natural selection.

Did you watch your own video? Right at the beginning the rules were laid out.

The rules for playing the Menace machine were laid out, but those rules were not imbedded into the machine itself. If you want to form an analogy with life, consider that God has laid out the rules for how life works, but he has not embedded those rules into the organisms themselves. So from the point of view of what we can learn from the DNA of the organisms, they do not “know” what future generations should evolve into, just like the Menace machine did not “know” what the makeup of the colored beads would be after playing many games. It really is quite a good analogy, if on a much smaller scale.

LeafByNiggle:

A difference in degree only.

It is easy to poo poo this difference. The difference in search space is astronomical and why the odds of evolution are so bad.

Well, I guess it is easy since you seem to be doing it so much. The question is not is it easy. The question is, is it right. Yes, the search space is hugely bigger than the number of ways of arranging C, T, A, and G proteins in DNA strands. But it really is only a difference in degree. The Menace machine shows the process operating on a very tiny level. We have seen biological changes operate the same way on a somewhat larger scale that you call “adaptation” but which I call “evolution on a small scale.” All you have is the claim that what we see happening on a small scale just could not happen on a larger scale. It is hard to grasp that intuitively because the scale is beyond your normal everyday experience. But scientists deal with huge differences in scale all the time, as when they calculate the size of our galaxy, or the radius of an atom. And they don’t do it with intuition. They do it with numbers.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

A giraffe neck is a perfect example of built in design. They ear both from high branches and the ground. They have long legs and need a long neck to reach the ground. They have sensors in their neck that regulate regulate blood pressure so the strong heart does not rupture their blood vessels. If the complex systems did not happen at the same time, the giraffe dies.

An example of interpretive overlay.

 

[IWantGod]

I have philosophical reasons for thinking that physical reality was created for a purpose and also i have reason to believe that physical reality acts to specific ends that only makes sense if the first cause is intelligent. However i don’t hold to this kind of mechanistic intelligent design that you are espousing. .

 

[Techno2000]

Techno2000:

So the Polar bear’s fur turn white so it could survive in the snow ?

No. Bears with pale fur survived better and had more cubs. Repeat over many generations and you get white fur, and the same for many Arctic animals.

rossum

How do you know Polar bears had pale fur at one time?And pale fur animals mating for generations doesn’t mean it’s going to turn white.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

rossum:

Techno2000:

So the Polar bear’s fur turn white so it could survive in the snow ?

No. Bears with pale fur survived better and had more cubs. Repeat over many generations and you get white fur, and the same for many Arctic animals.

rossum

How do you know Polar bears had pale fur at one time?And pale fur animals mating for generations doesn’t mean it’s going to turn white.

The number of questions you ask far outpaces the number of actual arguments you make - as if asking a question is an argument all on its own. It isn’t. It seems like you are just testing everyone’s knowledge of biology with no real purpose in mind. Maybe this is your idea of random variation with natural selection? If you ask enough random questions, eventually you will ask a really clever one?

 

[Techno2000]

The anglerfish has a specialized illuminated fishing lure that it uses to attract prey… how did the anglerfish survive waiting for evolution to evolve this lure ?

 

[Techno2000]

If you ask enough random questions, eventually you will ask a really clever one?

I like to keep the ball rolling

 

[edwest211]

That is an excellent, excellent example of design, including the teeth. I’ve seen other photos of this fish.

It seems the equation is “enough time equals getting it right,” while discarding all the failures. Or it’s just like they never happened, because life doesn’t matter. It just is. Like grass, which we cut and have around cause we like it. I’d never want to hang out with the guy who wrote this:

“Out, out, brief candle. Life is nothing more than an illusion. It’s like a poor actor who struts and worries for his hour on the stage and then is never heard from again. Life is a story told by an idiot, full of noise and emotional disturbance but devoid of meaning.” Macbeth

Life is meant to be lived to the fullest with every consideration for the other and generations to come.

 

[Techno2000]

It seems the equation is “enough time equals getting it right,” while discarding all the failures.

Right, this creature has to be ready from the git-go, there’s no time to goof around with prototypes and trial and error in the vicious world of nature.