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CapitalistCatholic
Guest
I do believe so. It’s the only thing I agree with Pope Francis on.
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Aloysium
Guest
Identical in structure. You missed the point, poorly stated I suppose. They are separate chemicals as are all of them in our bodies. The question as to what is an organism has to do with the cohesive property brings together the Cytochrome-C molecules together with the other myriad of others that come together as a body, which is one person, or one ape. I’m pretty sure I’m talking to myself at this point.
OK. We are not Homindae. I hope that helps.
Wow. The Internet is truly a tower of Babel. I was referring to you and your physical make-up. There is nothing left in you of the molecules that your parents contributed to your physical make-up. But, I suppose it is also true of your parents’ bodies. The atoms that form our bodies are continuously being recycled as cells die and are replaced and the metabolic processes which keep them alive and define their function proceed through life. We apparently grow a new skin every seven years. Even our stem cells did not exist at conception. Our physical existence in time and space began with one single cell, one person in the making, incorporating external matter, in its initial formation and throughout life.
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Aloysium
Guest
I think you misunderstand what is being conveyed by the quote.
Dhammapada 20:275- 289
Walking upon this path you will make an end of suffering. Having discovered how to pull out the thorn of lust, I make known the path.
You yourselves must strive; the Buddhas only point the way. Those meditative ones who tread the path are released from the bonds of Mara.
“All conditioned things are impermanent” — when one sees this with wisdom, one turns away from suffering. This is the path to purification.
“All conditioned things are unsatisfactory” — when one sees this with wisdom, one turns away from suffering. This is the path to purification.
“All things are not-self” — when one sees this with wisdom, one turns away from suffering. This is the path to purification.
The idler who does not exert himself when he should, who though young and strong is full of sloth, with a mind full of vain thoughts — such an indolent man does not find the path to wisdom.
Let a man be watchful of speech, well controlled in mind, and not commit evil in bodily action. Let him purify these three courses of action, and win the path made known by the Great Sage.
Wisdom springs from meditation; without meditation wisdom wanes. Having known these two paths of progress and decline, let a man so conduct himself that his wisdom may increase.
Cut down the forest (lust), but not the tree; from the forest springs fear. Having cut down the forest and the underbrush (desire), be passionless, O monks! [20]
For so long as the underbrush of desire, even the most subtle, of a man towards a woman is not cut down, his mind is in bondage, like the sucking calf to its mother.
Cut off your affection in the manner of a man who plucks with his hand an autumn lotus. Cultivate only the path to peace, Nibbana, as made known by the Exalted One.
“Here shall I live during the rains, here in winter and summer” — thus thinks the fool. He does not realize the danger (that death might intervene).
As a great flood carries away a sleeping village, so death seizes and carries away the man with a clinging mind, doting on his children and cattle.
For him who is assailed by death there is no protection by kinsmen. None there are to save him — no sons, nor father, nor relatives.
Realizing this fact, let the wise man, restrained by morality, hasten to clear the path leading to Nibbana.
It is pointless to conceptualize what is meant by I, you, one, none, a wise man, the Exalted one. Disconnected from the Truth there will be only endless thoughts, meaningless, ungrounded illusion.
Dhammapada 20:275- 289
Walking upon this path you will make an end of suffering. Having discovered how to pull out the thorn of lust, I make known the path.
You yourselves must strive; the Buddhas only point the way. Those meditative ones who tread the path are released from the bonds of Mara.
“All conditioned things are impermanent” — when one sees this with wisdom, one turns away from suffering. This is the path to purification.
“All conditioned things are unsatisfactory” — when one sees this with wisdom, one turns away from suffering. This is the path to purification.
“All things are not-self” — when one sees this with wisdom, one turns away from suffering. This is the path to purification.
The idler who does not exert himself when he should, who though young and strong is full of sloth, with a mind full of vain thoughts — such an indolent man does not find the path to wisdom.
Let a man be watchful of speech, well controlled in mind, and not commit evil in bodily action. Let him purify these three courses of action, and win the path made known by the Great Sage.
Wisdom springs from meditation; without meditation wisdom wanes. Having known these two paths of progress and decline, let a man so conduct himself that his wisdom may increase.
Cut down the forest (lust), but not the tree; from the forest springs fear. Having cut down the forest and the underbrush (desire), be passionless, O monks! [20]
For so long as the underbrush of desire, even the most subtle, of a man towards a woman is not cut down, his mind is in bondage, like the sucking calf to its mother.
Cut off your affection in the manner of a man who plucks with his hand an autumn lotus. Cultivate only the path to peace, Nibbana, as made known by the Exalted One.
“Here shall I live during the rains, here in winter and summer” — thus thinks the fool. He does not realize the danger (that death might intervene).
As a great flood carries away a sleeping village, so death seizes and carries away the man with a clinging mind, doting on his children and cattle.
For him who is assailed by death there is no protection by kinsmen. None there are to save him — no sons, nor father, nor relatives.
Realizing this fact, let the wise man, restrained by morality, hasten to clear the path leading to Nibbana.
It is pointless to conceptualize what is meant by I, you, one, none, a wise man, the Exalted one. Disconnected from the Truth there will be only endless thoughts, meaningless, ungrounded illusion.
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buffalo
Guest
Design is a much better argument. A designer often uses preexisting common building blocks. Why re-invent the wheel each time as evolution does?
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ChunkMonk
Guest
And for some reason this land based creature was benefited by mutations that shortened and weakened its legs. The same thing with snakes. The nub-legs of hundreds of generatioms were by themselves an improvement on legs that allowed for greater survivability.
It is so stupid it boggles the mind.
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mhmtas63
Guest
That six days point phases through which universe and world get formed. Otherwise there are always acting or for our topic “act of evolution”. For instance silkworm evolves. What you do not see is that it cannot be by unconscious forces and laws. Can you indicate a force or a law as physical presence. For instance could you show “gravity”. What gravity consist of? Or could you show growing up programe as force and law? I mean which force and law make alives so wonderful and very beautiful? Do gravity or four basic forces have mind? That forces affect in one side. So how could unconscious forces build up so complicated even miraculous (because human cannot do) bodies? Just think cells and other organs if you are a bit aware of biology and chemistry. How could mindless forces know all sciences? That is the point of faith. Otherwise faith is not a math formula to prove.
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edwest211
Guest
A series of events is assumed as if one could literally stretch back millions of years and actually observe. God created, no doubt. But longer ears or shorter tusks are examples of adaptation. And there’s no reason to believe they did not already exist among elephants but were rare, so now, short tusks or even no tusks are becoming more common. The question of the development of novel organs totally ignores the fact that the body is an interlocking mechanism. A new organ is not an appliance one just plugs in. For the novel organ to work, brain circuitry has to be developed, along with adjusting blood flow, blood pressure and so on. It also has to fit the body frame. Human beings are not walking around with bulging sacs on the outside that allow for different, novel functions, like alternative lungs that allow us to breathe in carbon dioxide and turn it into air, while our “regular” lungs do the opposite.
The flaws are there but they are denied. It is clear that these threads are not about science but about promoting a materialistic only interpretation of reality. It is distorted because scientific inquiry is limited and cannot include the fullness of who human beings are. Each of us was willed by God. Doing away with God leaves a Communist atheism in its wake.
The flaws are there but they are denied. It is clear that these threads are not about science but about promoting a materialistic only interpretation of reality. It is distorted because scientific inquiry is limited and cannot include the fullness of who human beings are. Each of us was willed by God. Doing away with God leaves a Communist atheism in its wake.
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edwest211
Guest
Exactly. So in order to create an alternative, man becomes god, and a great many like-minded tribes are formed around different principles, leading to social fragmentation. A very desirable result because anarchy is more likely to create internal conflicts that require correction in some way. There’s money in that. In stable societies with a universally agreed upon order, there is a network of people who know what is good and right, and who are less likely to find themselves in self-destructive or socially destructive tribes. But such stability angers anarchists who insist on their (many different) ways.
How shall we live then? Stable, friendly, concerned for the other and respecting certain boundaries, or just making things up for the sake of novelty and a rejection of the good and true?
How shall we live then? Stable, friendly, concerned for the other and respecting certain boundaries, or just making things up for the sake of novelty and a rejection of the good and true?
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mhmtas63
Guest
Yes. Body is in an unity which one system do not work without other or others. All systems must be exist in unity and were designed originally.
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Techno2000
Guest
The Emperor’s New Clothes
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Glark
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Lewontin the evolutionary biologist is also an atheist - gosh, how unusual! He wouid probably claim it is also a “fact” that God doesn’t exist.
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Glark
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It’s not a matter of historical science - you confirm you have cracked the secret of knowing how life arose from inanimate matter by going into a laboratory and making life arise from inanimate matter. Anything less than that is just empty takm wishful thinking and space-cadetery.
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Glark
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Atheists don’t need a cause as they rely on blind faith in sheer, dumb luck - which, in effect, is really just old-fashioned magic and superstition.
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Glark
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Fair point. After all, God will create “a new heaven and a new earth” one day (Rev 21).
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rossum
Guest
Your designer re-invents the wheel whenever evolution would require it as well: pterosaur wings are different from bird wings which are different from bat wings. Evolution can easily explain why that particular wheel was reinvented three times. Why didn’t your designer re-use an already invented wheel?
Because design can explain anything, it explains nothing and is unfalsifiable. Evolution can be falsified by a living pegasus or a Precambrian rabbit. Tell us how to falsify design please. What object or animal could your designer not design?
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PickyPicky
Guest
And geologists have to go into the lab and create the Rockies. No, Glark, science doesn’t have to recreate anything: it has to make testable predictions.
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Aloysium
Guest
Testable means we do something. We manipulate a variable and see if the effect is what we predicted. Implicit in the proof is that something intervened to result in an effect. Atheists have it that it was Chaos, the god of randomness. Stuff happens, because it does, and some are satisfied with that “explanation”.
Fact is that while we can deconstruct life into its material components, we cannot create it since it is greater than the parts. We cannot create matter, but we can rearrange it and smash it into subatomic bits. Same thing.
Fact is that while we can deconstruct life into its material components, we cannot create it since it is greater than the parts. We cannot create matter, but we can rearrange it and smash it into subatomic bits. Same thing.
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PickyPicky
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Not quite. Newton’s theory of gravity produced predictions confirmed by the discovery of Neptune. The deflection of light by cosmic bodies confirmed predictions from Einstein’s theory of general relativity. Predictions can be made and tested without creating things in a lab.
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Techno2000
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Gravity is an invisible force, Darwin"s theory is biological speculation, two completely different things.
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Vouthon
Guest
Yes, of course it’s “true”.
Natural reason and divine faith are not at odds (indeed I view them as complementary, I am a Christian) but they are very different means of pursuing knowledge based upon distinct “methods”.
What distinguishes science from faith is falsifiability, empiricism and the ability to make testable predictions. This is the fundamental difference between science and other belief systems: that a scientist can predict something in advance (we don’t know whether its true or not), then when we make an experiment and its confirmed, that then gives us reason to believe it.
Since you raised it first, let’s consider a paradigmatic example - one among many - from the Theory of Evolution to illustrate this. Darwin was fascinated by orchid pollination strategies and actually discovered a special kind of orchid known as Angraecum sesquipedale. It had an uncharacteristically long pipe-like “nectar reservoir”.
Now, on the basis of this discovery Darwin predicted the existence of an insect with a proboscis that would be able to get “in there” and retrieve the deeply-hidden nectar.
And not long after, biologists found one -exactly as he had predicted. So the theory of the mutual evolution of pollinators and plants successfully made the prediction that if there was a plant that could only be pollinated in this way, there must be some insect that did it. And this is what you call a “testable prediction” in science.
Einstein’s theory of General Relativity, likewise, has made innumerable correct predictions - from the gravitational bending of light to the time dilation measured by our GPS phones.
Natural reason and divine faith are not at odds (indeed I view them as complementary, I am a Christian) but they are very different means of pursuing knowledge based upon distinct “methods”.
What distinguishes science from faith is falsifiability, empiricism and the ability to make testable predictions. This is the fundamental difference between science and other belief systems: that a scientist can predict something in advance (we don’t know whether its true or not), then when we make an experiment and its confirmed, that then gives us reason to believe it.
Since you raised it first, let’s consider a paradigmatic example - one among many - from the Theory of Evolution to illustrate this. Darwin was fascinated by orchid pollination strategies and actually discovered a special kind of orchid known as Angraecum sesquipedale. It had an uncharacteristically long pipe-like “nectar reservoir”.
Now, on the basis of this discovery Darwin predicted the existence of an insect with a proboscis that would be able to get “in there” and retrieve the deeply-hidden nectar.
And not long after, biologists found one -exactly as he had predicted. So the theory of the mutual evolution of pollinators and plants successfully made the prediction that if there was a plant that could only be pollinated in this way, there must be some insect that did it. And this is what you call a “testable prediction” in science.
Einstein’s theory of General Relativity, likewise, has made innumerable correct predictions - from the gravitational bending of light to the time dilation measured by our GPS phones.
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