Is Darwin's Theory Of Evolution True?

[edwest211]

Interbreeding. …

 

[buffalo]

Table 1.
Expected persistence of biomolecules at temperatures of 0C,
10C and 20C
Concentration in Ea Detection limit (years10^3 BP) bone (by weight) Method (kJ•mol 1 ) 0C 10C 20C
t
1/2 DNA 0.001% Estimated based upon limit of amplification
using Ea for DNA depurination in solution7 127 125 17.5 2.5
t
1/2 Collagen 22% Estimated based upon laboratory
measured rates of gelatinization
(M. Collins et al., unpublished work) 173 2700 180 15 (2,700,000, 180,000, 15,000 years before present)
t
1/2 Osteocalcin 0.2% Estimated based upon laboratory measured
rates loss of epitope for the Gla-rich mid-region
(M. Collins et al., unpublished work) 175 110000 7500 580 http://www.biochemist.org/bio/02403/0012/024030012.pdf

 

[Glark]

If evil exists, and God created everything (except Himself), then what Isaiah says is correct: “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.” Isaiah 45:7.

When God says He creates “evil” He means He can create circumstances that humans find very unpleasant, calamitous or deadly - a couple of examples: the Ten Plagues visited on Pharaoh and the Egyptians in the book of Exodus, and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. That is completely different to the evil committed by humans, such as stealing, murder, rape, adultery, lying, etc.

 

[Glark]

Jews knew that the word (yom) meant age, which is longer than 24 hours. So Jews were interpreting it differently before Darwin.

Thomas Aquinas had multiple interpretations, because he read the Fathers and saw that they did not all agree on the interpretation.
[/quote]

 

[buffalo]

Keep in mind the dino bones were only 3 feet down.

Armitage found osteocyte cells and you can see them too by watching the video I posted.

 

[Glark]

Jews knew that the word (yom) meant age, which is longer than 24 hours. So Jews were interpreting it differently before Darwin.

You’re half correct. Jews knew that “yom” can mean either a literal day or an indefinite period of time, depending on the context. I would say the vast majority of pre-Darwin Jews believed in a literal six days of creation - hence the fact that even today, the date 5778 (which is based on a literal interpretation of Genesis) appears on the front page of many Jewish publications.

Thomas Aquinas had multiple interpretations, because he read the Fathers and saw that they did not all agree on the interpretation.

Another half-truth. The vast majority of the Fathers believed in a literal six days of creation. Augustine was a noted exception and was open to the possibility of different interpretations, but he himself favoured creation in an instant, which doesn’t leave much room for billions of years of evolution.

how does that mesh with Hebrew literary forms? You are interpreting the Greco-Latin way.

I know next to nothing about Hebrew literary forms. Which Hebrews believed Adam and Eve weren’t created instantly? And it’s my understanding that Catholic are required to believe that Eve was created from Adam’s rib.

The “Greco-Latin way”? Here we are talking about the Bible, and you want to talk about wrestling.

 

[Glark]

Data as fact is confirmed so strongly that it would be perverse to not give assent.

Your Gould-esque rhetoric doesn’t impress me.

Now, science is not dogmatic and set in stone … something could be discovered which throws off the theory, or a better theory may explain the facts better

So, do you think the Catechism is correct when it implies that the untestable theory that man evolved from microbes over billions of years is fact and infallible knowledge?

 

[rossum]

How can we claim proof for something that is really a subjective judgement?

It is not subjective, it is objective. You can look at the genetic sequences in DNA or in proteins and compare them. For example, here are the amino acid sequences for Cytochrome-C in humans [H] and chimps [C]:

H: mgdvekgkki fimkcsqcht vekggkhktg pnlhglfgrk tgqapgysyt aanknkgiiw gedtlmeyle npkkyipgtk mifvgikkke eradliaylk katne
C: mgdvekgkki fimkcsqcht vekggkhktg pnlhglfgrk tgqapgysyt aanknkgiiw gedtlmeyle npkkyipgtk mifvgikkke eradliaylk katne

The two are identical. Rhesus monkeys (a primate) have one difference. Mice (a mammal, but not a primate) have 8 differences.

It is this sort of very detailed low-level information that leads scientists to the conclusion that humans are most closely related to Hominid primates.

rossum

 

[anon65111186]

Front loading is creating the initial conditions and (name removed by moderator)utting the necessary information to achieve a desired outcome.

Unfortunately you will run into a bigger problem in gathering data for that. First you will have to scientifically prove that God exists, then you can have him as the “front loader”.

Otherwise it is philosophy commenting on scientific data.

 

[rossum]

A few years ago they found a pregnant dino with DNA. Stay tuned.

Reference for the DNA please. I am aware of a pregnant dino with fragmentary collagen.

rossum

 

[anon65111186]

Neandertals are us, an isolated group of humans.

Well, some (very few and rarely) consider them a subspecies, most consider them a separate species.

The Neanderthal genome project revealed in 2010 that, through interbreeding, Neanderthals contributed to the DNA of modern humans, likely between 50,000 and 60,000 years ago

 

[rossum]

When God says He creates “evil” He means…

When God says something, I think that I will accept what God says, not what God’s self-appointed spokesman says that God really meant to say, but didn’t.

rossum

 

[anon65111186]

Your Gould-esque rhetoric doesn’t impress me.

Not familiar with that term, sorry. That is a standard definition of facts in the scientific world though, sorry it doesn’t impress.

So, do you think the Catechism is correct when it implies that the untestable theory that man evolved from microbes over billions of years is fact and infallible knowledge?

I believe you are repeating yourself Glark. Didn’t you already ask this like 2 times already? I asked for a quote from the Catechism last time where you got that. Did you provide that source?

Like I said, theory is not fact, even the theory of plate tectonics is not a fact, though we see that the earth’s plates shift and cause earthquakes and tsunamis.

 

[rossum]

Well, some (very few and rarely) consider them a subspecies, most consider them a separate species.

Mitochondrial DNA sequencing tends to confirm them as a separate subspecies. See chart here.

rossum

 

[Glark]

Mind backing up your claim with sources about voodoo and other praise of other religions?

As reported in L’Osservatore Romano, Feb 6, 1993, p.4, Pope John Paul II wrote a letter of greeting to a voodoo high-priest he meet during a visit to Benin, Africa. In part it says, “You are strongly attached to the traditions which your ancestors transmitted to you. It is legitimate to be grateful to the ancestors who transmitted to you the sense of the sacred, faith in a one and good god, the taste for celebrations, for
esteem of moral life and harmony in society.”

Who knew that voodoo was such a lovely and admirable religion? Certainly not Saint Francis Xavier, who said, “All the invocations of the pagans are hateful to God, because all their gods are devils.”

From the Catholic Encyclopedia, 1913 edition, Vol. 6 page 57: “Voodooism is simply African fetishism transplanted to American soil. Authentic records are procurable of midnight meetings held in Haiti, as late as 1888, at which human beings, especially children, were killed and eaten at the secret feasts. European governments in Africa have put down the practice of the black art, yet so deeply is it implanted in the belief of the natives that Dr. Norris does not hesitate to say it would revive if the whites were to withdraw.”
The same Encyclopedia, on fetishism in Africa, says on the previous page: “The fetish is used not only as a preventive of or defense against evil (i.e. white art'), but also as a means of offence, i.e. black art’ or witchcraft in the full sense, which always connotes a possible taking of life… Those who practice the black art are all “wizards” or “witches”– names never given to practitioners of the white art. The user of the white art uses no concealment; a practitioner of the black art denies it, and carries on its practice secretly. The black art is supposed to consist of evil practices to cause sickness and death… Only a wizard can cause sickness or death. Hence witchcraft belief includes witchcraft murder.”

As for other false religions, have you never heard of the World Prayer for Peace meetings held at the cathedral in Assisi, Italy in 1986 and 1993? JP II invited 160 leaders from just about every false religion under the sun. According to reports, he allowed a statue of Buddha to be placed on the altar in the cathedral in order to allow Buddhists to worship. For a Catholic, JP II did a very good impression of a Freemason.

“Be brave, now…for the Church has already been invaded by Freemasonry. Freemasonry has already made it into the loafers (shoes) of the Pope!” - Saint (Padre) Pio to Fr. Luigi Villa, 1963

These are just a few instances of the many inter-faith activities of JP II.

 

[anon65111186]

I would say the vast majority of pre-Darwin Jews believed in a literal six days of creation - hence the fact that even today, the date 5778 (which is based on a literal interpretation of Genesis) appears on the front page of many Jewish publications.

the date 5778 (which is based on a literal interpretation of Genesis) appears on the front page of many Jewish publications.

We know from pure data that the earth and the universe are much, much older. This has nothing to do with evolution mind you.

The vast majority of the Fathers believed in a literal six days of creation

Do you have a concrete number of that “vast majority”?

The “Greco-Latin way”?

This is from the Pope Pius XII

The question of the literary forms of the eleven first chapters of Genesis is more obscure and more complicated. These literary forms do not correspond exactly with any classical category, and are not to be judged according to Greco-Latin or modern literary forms. Hence the historicity of these chapters can neither be denied nor affirmed simply, without undue application to them of the norms of a literary form under which they cannot be classed.

 

[Glark]

They claim it’s a human skull, but they couldn’t figure out why its arm bones are longer than its leg bones.

 

[anon65111186]

You are strongly attached to the traditions which your ancestors transmitted to you. It is legitimate to be grateful to the ancestors who transmitted to you the sense of the sacred, faith in a one and good god, the taste for celebrations, for esteem of moral life and harmony in society

He is saying it is legitimate to be grateful to your ancestors, that they at least gave you a sense that some things are holy, that there is one god and he is good.

He was trying to dialogue with them, just like St. Paul did with the altar to the unknown god in Athens.

We believe as Catholics there is one God and he is good, do we not? Though they don’t know the one true God fully, Saint JPII was emphasizing what we have in common.

 

[anon65111186]

They claim it’s a human skull, but they couldn’t figure out why its arm bones are longer than its leg bones.

Source of that story?

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Front loading is creating the initial conditions and (name removed by moderator)utting the necessary information to achieve a desired outcome.

What is IDvolution?
IDvolution - God “breathed” the super language of DNA into the “kinds” in the creative act.

This accounts for the diversity of life we see. The core makeup shared by all living things have the necessary complex information built in that facilitates rapid and responsive adaptation of features and variation while being able to preserve the “kind” that they began as. Life has been created with the creativity built in ready to respond to triggering events.
Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on Earth have the same core, it is virtually certain that living organisms have been thought of AT ONCE by the One and the same Creator endowed with the super language we know as DNA that switched on the formation of the various kinds, the cattle, the swimming creatures, the flying creatures, etc… in a pristine harmonious state and superb adaptability and responsiveness to their environment for the purpose of populating the earth that became subject to the ravages of corruption by the sin of one man (deleterious mutations).
IDvolution considers the latest science and is consistent with the continuous teaching of the Church.

This is more of an emotional impression than a scientific description. An evolutionary biologist who is also a Christian could say the say thing - that God, through His marvelous creation, “front loaded” all the possibilities of living things through the way in which He established the laws of nature. This was all done for God’s marvelous purpose, so nothing that comes to be was not already existing in the mind of God before the world was formed.

But ID goes a step further with this “front loading” concept by implying that the mechanism by which God anticipated things like the long necks of giraffes could be found by scientists in animals without long necks. And most specifically that the detection of the “front loading” mechanism invalidates the role of random variation and therefor of macro evolution.