Is downloading music always sinful?

[rr1213]

well if our government does one thing Catholics don’t agree with, why couldn’t they have other rules Catholics don’t agree with. I’m not implying stealing is ok or anything like that, just trying to see it from both sides. Both sides have strong arguments, it’s tough to prove that downloading music, or even sharing legally bought music with friends, is “stealing.”

It depends on whether what you do is legal or not. If it’s legal and does not violate any of God’s laws, go for it. If it’s illegal and yet does not violate any of God’s laws, God calls on you to not violate the law.

 

[sprout]

CRIMINAL CODE - SECT 371

“Stealing”, definition of
371 . “Stealing”, definition of

(1) A person who fraudulently takes anything capable of being stolen, or fraudulently converts to his own use or to the use of any other person any property, is said to steal that thing or that property.

 

[JesusSaves17]

so if someone buys a CD and burns it for a friend, is that stealing?

 

[bootleggersouth]

so, off topic here, but when people flee Cuba for America, is that a sin? If I go to North Dakota, as an 18 year old, and at the very tip, take a sip of beer. And I sin? Then I take one step over to the Canadian border, take one sip of beer and I’m fine? We’re supposed to obey government, I agree with that. But are we really sinning if we disobey some rule that is established by the same institution that says Abortion is ok?

Let others say what they will…it is apparent to me that the laws of the land are often dominated by financial, rather than spiritual concerns—and often err on the side of the financial.

In fact, one thing that lead me to this very Catholic forum was admiration for some of the American Catholic Church’s decisions to give aid and shelter to illegal immigrants even though this is frowned upon by the laws of the land. This is not to say that I support illegal immigration, for I realize that it brings with it many problems—but at the end of the day, people are people, and moutainous theological citations mean nothing compared to helping a fellow human being who is in need.

All reasonable people realize the need for law and order, but when any church becomes totally submissive to the laws of the land it serves finance, rather than spirituality, and has become a temple of mammon…and has failed in it’s role of leadership.

I do not understand the technical laws concerning the downloading of music…but if Merle Haggard feels like I owe him anything, I’ll put him a check in the mail.

 

[sprout]

God knew this would be a big debate in society, why couldn’t he make a commandment, “Thou Shalt Not Download Music without Paying a Fee”

He did, ever heard of the 10 Commandments?

7. You shall not steal.

2401 The seventh commandment forbids unjustly taking or keeping the goods of one’s neighbor and wronging him in any way with respect to his goods. It commands justice and charity in the care of earthly goods and the fruits of men’s labor. For the sake of the common good, it requires respect for the universal destination of goods and respect for the right to private property. Christian life strives to order this world’s goods to God and to fraternal charity.
christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/seventh.html

10. You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.

You shall not covet . . . anything that is your neighbor’s. . . . You shall not desire your neighbor’s house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, or his ox, or his ***, or anything that is your neighbor’s.316

*For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.*317

2534 The tenth commandment unfolds and completes the ninth, which is concerned with concupiscence of the flesh. It forbids coveting the goods of another, as the root of theft, robbery, and fraud, which the seventh commandment forbids.

2544 Jesus enjoins his disciples to prefer him to everything and everyone, and bids them “renounce all that [they have]” for his sake and that of the Gospel.334 Shortly before his passion he gave them the example of the poor widow of Jerusalem who, out of her poverty, gave all that she had to live on.335 The precept of detachment from riches is obligatory for entrance into the Kingdom of heaven.

2545 All Christ’s faithful are to "direct their affections rightly, lest they be hindered in their pursuit of perfect charity by the use of worldly things and by an adherence to riches which is contrary to the spirit of evangelical poverty."336

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a0.htm

 

[JesusSaves17]

He did, ever heard of the 10 Commandments?

7. You shall not steal.

10. You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.

gee thanks sprout, I know what the 10 commandments are. I’m not arguing the morality of stealing. I’m suggesting, WHERE do you draw the line. Downloading music from the internet without paying, VERY WRONG. Getting songs from a friend who downloaded them illegally off the internet, VERY WRONG. Ripping a song from a friend who purchased it, WRONG? Having a CD burned from a friend who purchased the CD, WRONG? What about family? My sister buys a CD, am I allowed to put the songs on my computer, as well as my other siblings? Or is every child in my family morally required to go out and buy the same exact CD so we can all share the same music and the artist can get the appropriate royalties. What about cousins, neighbors, or best friends? Where do you draw the line. It’s not as cut and dry as you might think.

 

[dazzi]

Oh…
Ive had enough of this debating we should go on beliveing watever we do i know i still belive its not wrong and there is not enough proof either way to say if it is or not ok?
I need office over openoffice because open office does not have publisher so how am i meant to make Brouchoures and pamphlets when needed at school.
Stealing is stealing donwloading is something else. i belive downloading is stealing when you sell it or hack into a computer and take itwith force but downloading something someone bought and put it on the net is sharing.
Enough from me im going to keep doing so until proof comes and more people belive it but until then i find there is nothing wrong and not enough proof.

 

[sprout]

Oh…
there is not enough proof either way to say if it is or not ok?

… i belive downloading is stealing when you sell it or hack into a computer and take itwith force but downloading something someone bought and put it on the net is sharing.

… so until proof comes and more people belive it but until then i find there is nothing wrong and not enough proof.

Makes me wonder what kind of “proof” you would require.

Federal law provides severe civil and criminal penalties for the unauthorized reproduction, distribution, rental or digital transmission of copyrighted sound recordings. (Title 17, United States Code, Sections 501 and 506). The FBI investigates allegations of criminal copyright infringement and violators will be prosecuted.

Individuals who download and/or share protected media may be prosecuted in criminal court and/or sued in civil court for damages. Criminal penalties can run up to 5 years in prison and/or $250,000 in fines.

As of May 2005, the recording industry has filed over 11,000 lawsuits nationwide. One Chicago woman was ordered to pay $22,500 for downloading 30 songs!! And one parent who was sued civilly for his daughter’s downloading must choose to settle with the record company or take the case to trial - which could cost him more than $450,000!!
uc.edu/conduct/Copyright_Infringement.html

 

[sprout]

gee thanks sprout, I know what the 10 commandments are. I’m not arguing the morality of stealing. I’m suggesting, WHERE do you draw the line. Downloading music from the internet without paying, VERY WRONG. Getting songs from a friend who downloaded them illegally off the internet, VERY WRONG. Ripping a song from a friend who purchased it, WRONG? Having a CD burned from a friend who purchased the CD, WRONG? What about family? My sister buys a CD, am I allowed to put the songs on my computer, as well as my other siblings? Or is every child in my family morally required to go out and buy the same exact CD so we can all share the same music and the artist can get the appropriate royalties. What about cousins, neighbors, or best friends? Where do you draw the line. It’s not as cut and dry as you might think.

sorry. I was resonding to your question *"why couldn’t he make a commandment, “Thou Shalt Not Download Music without Paying a Fee”
*

If you follow the links I gave and read the Catechism I think it will give you the answers to your questions.

Whenever you “copy” or digitally reproduce copyrighted music you have not purchased or own (as in a gift) then you are violating copyright laws. Let’s say your sister bought a movie and you wanted to watch it, you would not need to make an illegal copy of that movie in order to watch it. If you made an illegal copy, it would be so that you could “own” your own copy. This desire to “possess” your own copy would then fall under “coveting” another’s goods that resulted in theft. The moral thing to do if you desired your own copy would be to purchase it, thus compensating the artists for their goods.

 

[cranster]

A Typical Teen’s Answer:
Music should be free. That record companys should be thankful that we want to listen to their music.

According to who? Should houses or cars be free? of course not. Being a recording musician myself I can say that the cost of recording equipment is very exspensive! even for a modest home studio.

Should the burden fall on musicians and engineers to have to pay for the equipment to record so you can have free music? The truth is that there are alot of people that record out of their homes and try to make a living at it. Stealing from them is no different than stealing from walmart of home depot.

Not only do recording musicians have to pay for the instruments, and the equipment to record, they have to pay for insurance on all that equipment, air conditioning to keep it cool, maintenance when equipment breaks down. Then there is the time involved in recording, mixing, and mastering. Should your employer expect your labor for free?

I think a very good rule of thumb is to think before you download, that the God sho sees in secret is right there. If He were sitting there physically would you do it?

Stealing is a mortal sin, let’s not forget that. Unless the musician has put their music on the internet for free then it’s not free, and they have the right to be compensated for it.

 

[zemi]

Hey, I’m not from US, so I’d like to ask you if downloading music/movies is alway illegal there. In most European countries I think it’s illegal only to UPLOAD things like music etc and to make them accessible to others. So from the legal point of view, the culpable person is not the one who downloads it but the one who put it on a server.

Consequently, as for Peer to Peer downloading - this would be illegal almost in every case as you have to share your files as well.

 

[Julian_Peters]

Thank you to all who have participated. This thread is now closed.