Is Ecclesiastical Latin Gods language?

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triumphguy said:
There is a reason why Vatican II promoted the vernacular.
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Indeed… Ecumenism.

I remember my older sister telling me that when she was growing up in the 70s, she could remember attending Slovak Masses with my grandma, because we were all Slovak, and we lived in a predominantly Slovak area. But my father told me that back in the 50s, his Masses were all in Latin. Mine from the 80s were all in English, because by then, most of the Slovak speaking family members had died off, and we were all fluent English speakers at that point.

…But, I think today, the U.S. is generally almost all English and Spanish speaking, so those temporary traditions from my family have come and gone, having lived only a decade for my sister and grandma. Not much of a tradition at all actually.

Before my sister decided to leave the Church entirely several years ago, she gave the Charismatic Mass a shot, and was actually able to drag the whole family into it for a while -my brother and I were repulsed by the whole thing. We had all just started a new life in the Western States together, and I suppose we were looking for some kind of new tradition to get involved with together as a family. It was short lived. we all parted ways, and now we meet together on Holidays.

But when I look back on it now, I remember the band, the clapping, the girl Altar servers, the arm swinging, and and all the singing and it brings back good memories. I also have memories of of other Churches Ive frequented on my travels since then including the Latin Masses, and the Churches overlooking the ocean, the Mexican Churches with the traveling Mary statue, the ones from San Francisco, the ones with the pipe Organs (that were actually used), and I think My tradition holds a whole lot of diversity… Surely there is much much more to come, because I haven’t seen the Sedlec Ossuary, or St. Peters, or any Gothic Churches yet -so I’ll need to do a bit of traveling before my time expires… But either way, the language has never had a whole lot to do with my faith, it’s always been about the Priests and Bishops and parishioners I’ve met who have made the experience Stand out, that along with the Church itself and it’s architecture and detail. As long as the validity of the Sacraments keep these things united under our living Magesterium, then at least I know I’m kept safe in Gods Holy Church.

Just thought I’d share this all with you, not sure if it has any relevance here though…🤷😃
 
Publisher said:
If Latin is “God’s language”…He was quite mute for millenia prior to Latin being a recognized language.
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Okay, you got me there… But Latin is the official language of the Roman Catholic Church in terms of documents and what not. Since nobody else is claiming it, it makes for the perfect religious language of the Church. So it’s the “Church’s language”.
 
TEPO said:
Okay, you got me there… But Latin is the official language of the Roman Catholic Church in terms of documents and what not. Since nobody else is claiming it, it makes for the perfect religious language of the Church. So it’s the “Church’s language”.
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Different Churches have different traditional languages. And it is always the common language of where the Church was founded, when it was founded.
 
TEPO said:
Okay, you got me there… But Latin is the official language of the Roman Catholic Church in terms of documents and what not. Since nobody else is claiming it, it makes for the perfect religious language of the Church. So it’s the “Church’s language”.
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It has become the “perfect religious language;” it is not inherently the perfect religious language. If the official language were to change, that language would probably be adapted to religious purposes as well.
 
Baelor said:
It has become the “perfect religious language;” it is not inherently the perfect religious language. If the official language were to change, that language would probably be adapted to religious purposes as well.
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I agree Latin is not perfect, but the Church has adopted it since it was a predominant language in use when the Church fathers started writing doctrines… But what makes it “special” is the fact that it is dead to all current cultures and nations -so it can be manipulated, and is encouraged to be manipulated by the Church according to Pope John XXIII. Now it belongs exclusively to the Church like no other language could.
 
TEPO said:
I agree Latin is not perfect, but the Church has adopted it since it was a predominant language in use when the Church fathers started writing doctrines… But what makes it “special” is the fact that it is dead to all current cultures and nations -so it can be manipulated, and is encouraged to be manipulated by the Church according to Pope John XXIII. Now it belongs exclusively to the Church like no other language could.
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I agree entirely. I was just saying that the causality is worth emphasizing: its use as the liturgical language permitted it to develop as such, and not the reverse (i.e. it was selected because it had everything that was needed).

It is worth noting that there are people who use and speak Latin who are not Catholics.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Different Churches have different traditional languages. And it is always the common language of where the Church was founded, when it was founded.
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This is not entirely true. The Armenians worshiped in Syriac prior to the time of St. Mesrop, as he gave them the means of translating the liturgy into their language in 406 AD with the invention of the Armenian alphabet. The Malayali in India also worshiped in Syriac, though I have no idea when the liturgy was translated to Malayalam (probably quite early). It is still partially, sometimes completely, celebrated in Syriac there.
 
I think one or both of you are confused. Constantine seems to be talking about the traditional liturgical languages of the Church, not modern languages used for discussion between patriarchs or clergy of different churches. For instance, both the Syriac Orthodox and Maronite Churches use classical Syriac as a liturgical language, but if HH Mor Ignatius Zakka I Iwas met with Patriarch Bishara Raei of the Maronites, they wouldn’t speak to one another in Syriac, but in Arabic most likely, since it’s what they both speak.

If I remember correctly, last time Pope Benedict met with an Orthodox Patriarch (I think it was the EP, but it might’ve been someone else), they communicated in French…or at any rate, not in Latin. 😃
 
dzheremi said:
I think one or both of you are confused. Constantine seems to be talking about the traditional liturgical languages of the Church, not modern languages used for discussion between patriarchs or clergy of different churches. For instance, both the Syriac Orthodox and Maronite Churches use classical Syriac as a liturgical language, but if HH Mor Ignatius Zakka I Iwas met with Patriarch Bishara Raei of the Maronites, they wouldn’t speak to one another in Syriac, but in Arabic most likely, since it’s what they both speak.

If I remember correctly, last time Pope Benedict met with an Orthodox Patriarch (I think it was the EP, but it might’ve been someone else), they communicated in French…or at any rate, not in Latin. 😃
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What about the first four counsels, can every priest and clergy member read them in Greek?
 
TEPO said:
I agree Latin is not perfect, but the Church has adopted it since it was a predominant language in use when the Church fathers started writing doctrines… But what makes it “special” is the fact that it is dead to all current cultures and nations -so it can be manipulated, and is encouraged to be manipulated by the Church according to Pope John XXIII. Now it belongs exclusively to the Church like no other language could.
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Pope John XXIII said that the Church should create “new” Latin terms as needed -to me this suggests an openness to change from within the living Magesterium of the Holy Church.
 
TEPO said:
Pope John XXIII said that the Church should create “new” Latin terms as needed -to me this suggests an openness to change from within the living Magesterium of the Holy Church.
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I wonder if the Pope has to approve each Latin word so created.
 
TEPO said:
What about the first four counsels, can every priest and clergy member read them in Greek?
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Probably not. The acts of the Councils, those which survive in Greek (not all have), are probably written in an Atticized style of Greek that would be difficult for most people who have not studied Attic and Koine Greek to understand. Most people probably read the acts of the councils in translation or read about them in a book on dogmatics.
 
Cavaradossi said:
Probably not. The acts of the Councils, those which survive in Greek (not all have), are probably written in an Atticized style of Greek that would be difficult for most people who have not studied Attic and Koine Greek to understand. Most people probably read the acts of the councils in translation or read about them in a book on dogmatics.
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I wonder who holds the originals, and I would hope that the words would still be able to be understood by someone who is competent in that dialect. That way we know we’re not just following traditions and word of mouth… :eek: …because we do believe the Holy Soirit was present in creating those exact words, and not all languages or dialects translate exactly the same… Unless new words are created.
 
TEPO said:
I would think so, or at least approve its use.
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I do not think so at all. First, there are those who write in Latin but are not Catholic, as I mentioned. Second, are there any Latin dictionaries with an imprimatur? If so, then that does not mean the Pope himself approves it, but rather the Vatican more broadly. If not, then that answers the question in a different way.
 
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