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- Status
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WanderAimlessly
Guest
Maybe short term, but we need to find other ways to power automobiles.
K
KathleenElsie
Guest
My questions are:
Is it moraly right to take food and use it as an energy source?
Will this impact the cost of food for the poor nations?
Is it moraly right to take food and use it as an energy source?
Will this impact the cost of food for the poor nations?
O
Orogeny
Guest
No. Ethanol is a political solution, not a technical solution.
Peace
Tim
Peace
Tim
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amills
Guest
Zero - the field corn isn’t used as food for other nations. But it sure is helping the farmers in the midwest to have another market for their product. Higher prices are enabling farmers to actually make money.
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tvdxer
Guest
We also need to increase our use of alternative forms of transportation when possible, such as bicycling and public transit.
K
KathleenElsie
Guest
Field corn is used in feed for the animals that provide meat on our tables. Corn is not the only biological that is going to be used for fuel. I believe that field corn planted in fields then limits the fields for other food products. There is no magic button to cure the energy situation.
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KathleenElsie
Guest
Here is Western PA we have just had public transportation cuts again and more are expected in Aug.
J
Jeffrey
Guest
IMO no… it cost more to make,
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stbruno
Guest
Personally, automobile engineers need and probably have already designed a motor that gets better mpg, however, many people believe there is a conspiracy with auto makers and oil companies to keep that information under raps, so their profits stay waaaayyy up!
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Ridgerunner
Guest
I am not a technically savvy person. I only know what I read that better informed people have said. It seems (1) There is not enough corn in the whole world to produce the same amount of fuel that fossil fuels provide. (2) Using current technology, production of fuel ethanol from corn uses about as much energy as it produces. (3) Government subsidies of corn ethanol are necessary in order to induce anyone to produce it. (4) Those subsidies have increased corn usage for fuel production, correspondingly reducing its availability for food and increasing its cost.
I can’t help wondering if the following would be better approaches than massive subsidizing of corn ethanol production:
I can’t help wondering if the following would be better approaches than massive subsidizing of corn ethanol production:
- Allow recover of oil wherever it may be found in the U.S., e.g. ANWAR, the Cal coast, the Fla coast, Utah. China is drilling in the Gulf near Fla, but we can’t.
- Unburden nuclear power production from the regulation that makes it essentially impossible to build new plants. After all, if we can’t use nuclear, then we have to use fossil fuels to generate electricity.
- Allow greater coal usage. The U.S. is the Saudi Arabia of coal. I can’t prove it, but I have read there are economical ways of creating motor fuels from coal, but that environmental regulations prevent it. When I was a kid, “coal oil” was quite common and cheap. It was primarily used for heating back then.
- Look for alternative sources of alcohol; e.g., grasses, wood; things that can be produced more cheaply or are not human food sources.
- Try to improve vehicle mileage to a reasonable level. Of course, that’s tough with big trucks that carry most cargo.
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Al_Masetti
Guest
I agree.
However, in addition, anytime anyone wants to build a new gasoline refinery in the United States, they get tied up in ten years worth of lawsuits. So, the Feds need to cut through that litigation with some kind of blanket permit.
As a result of the United States being short of refinery capacity, the U.S. has to import gasoline from other countries. Because there just isn’t enough gasoline to go around for everyone, the price gets bid up … the “eBay phenomenon”.
The U.S also has a problem with each state and each region requiring special formulations of gasoline, which changes from season to season. All those “small” batches of fuel, with the resultant resetting of the refinery and mixing facilities, cause the cost of production to increase.
Some places require gasoline to be mixed with alcohol (methanol), but while gasoline can be transported by pipeline, the ethanol cannot. So the ethanol has to be trucked from the midwest where it is produced to the various consuming states and then blended and mixed. So, yet another example of hand-work that increases the cost of both transportation of the fuel as well as the cost of producing the final product.
Each time some group or other adds some new restriction or requirement, the cost increases.
What is really curious is this: a group of environmentalists want to decrease our Carbon Dioxide. The way to do that is to increase the cost of fuel to cause consumption to go down.
BUT, those very same environmentalists are now complaining because the very policy they advocate (cost increases for energy) result in higher prices for gasoline.
Do they not see the contradiction in their own political solution to an economic problem (as well as to an alleged environmental problem)?
However, in addition, anytime anyone wants to build a new gasoline refinery in the United States, they get tied up in ten years worth of lawsuits. So, the Feds need to cut through that litigation with some kind of blanket permit.
As a result of the United States being short of refinery capacity, the U.S. has to import gasoline from other countries. Because there just isn’t enough gasoline to go around for everyone, the price gets bid up … the “eBay phenomenon”.
The U.S also has a problem with each state and each region requiring special formulations of gasoline, which changes from season to season. All those “small” batches of fuel, with the resultant resetting of the refinery and mixing facilities, cause the cost of production to increase.
Some places require gasoline to be mixed with alcohol (methanol), but while gasoline can be transported by pipeline, the ethanol cannot. So the ethanol has to be trucked from the midwest where it is produced to the various consuming states and then blended and mixed. So, yet another example of hand-work that increases the cost of both transportation of the fuel as well as the cost of producing the final product.
Each time some group or other adds some new restriction or requirement, the cost increases.
What is really curious is this: a group of environmentalists want to decrease our Carbon Dioxide. The way to do that is to increase the cost of fuel to cause consumption to go down.
BUT, those very same environmentalists are now complaining because the very policy they advocate (cost increases for energy) result in higher prices for gasoline.
Do they not see the contradiction in their own political solution to an economic problem (as well as to an alleged environmental problem)?
J
Jennifer123
Guest
Brazil has spent nine billion in subsidies for ethanol production, which needless to say, is a lot of money in such a poor country.
The farming needs for ethanol production are staggering and are contributing to even greater land losses and pollution in their country.
It is an ineffective alcohol from what I’ve heard and may not work well in our much colder climates.
The ethanol revolution in Brazil isn’t as successful as it is touted to be, but what can we expect to hear from the MSM these days? Certainly not objectivity.
We need more efficient refineries and more of them. We haven’t built a new refinery since the mid-70’s in large part due to oppressive environmental regulation and the hysteria they promote to the communities surrounding any new proposal.
:twocents:
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Nohome
Guest
Is ethanol the solution? No, just like all the rest of the alternative energies, it falls short of what petroleum can deliver.
A better question: Is ethanol part of the solution? Yes, but it is just one thin slice of the whole energy pie. There will not be one simple solution to the world’s energy needs. Different solutions will work better in different regions of the world. We need to think past 20th century “one size fits all” mass production and look to taylor made solutions to regional problems. That said, I’m sure ethanol will play a role in some places, but it isn’t sustainable in the current production and distribution model.
Nohome
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gallo
Guest
My wife’s family is in Iowa so we make a few road trips in that direction and the car gets filled with ethanol while we are there. However, I was surprised to see how little actual corn produced ethanol and other non-petrol products were in the fuel. It was just 10% maximum. Plus, the mpg dropped so that means one would have to burn more of it to cover the same amount of miles as full petrol, thus producing at least the same amount of pollution. This is only a temporary substitute at best IMHO. It could be a good starter for further studies, though.
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anthony022071
Guest
I think the real solution is for Americans to lay off the Mexican food for awhile.
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Nohome
Guest
Have you been to Iowa lately? E85, (85% ethanol) is available at nearly every outlet in Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois and missouri. It may be as little as one pump per store, but if you look, it is there. It gets lower mileage, but mile for mile is significantly less polluting than full petrol. Right now, E85 cost more to run but eventually will eventually cost much less than gas making it a good choice by the mile.
Nohome
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Orogeny
Guest
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WanderAimlessly
Guest
Didn’t they also raise prices again? You can tell the major metropolitan areas of PA is ran by Democrats. They raise fares (a form of taxation) and wonder why ridership falls. The same thing happens every time in Philadelphia too.Here is Western PA we have just had public transportation cuts again and more are expected in Aug.
LOWER THE PRICES, MAYBE INCREASE SERVICE. MAYBE THEN RIDERSHIP AND REVENUES WILL GO UP.
BTW: I heard on the auto news yesterday that GM has hybrid buses and Seattle is buying a bunch of them. - Link
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vern_humphrey
Guest
There is no shortage of food in the world. People are hungry because the food doesn’t reach them – often because brutal dictators use hunger as a weapon.
That’s true. But here are some things we can do:
Drill for more oil. Most of our coasts and the arctic are 'locked up" and we cannot look for oil there. (The Chinese, however, can – they are now drilling in the Gulf of Mexico on permits issued by Cuba.)
Build refineries. We haven’t built a new refinery in this country in about 30 years.
Build more nuclear plants. We haven’t built a new one in about 30 years. Some 80% of our power is generated by burning coal and oil (in contrast to France, which is almost 80% nuclear.)
Use biofuels more – the most sensible approach is bio-diesel, whch can be produced from algae. We could convert our entire over-the-road truck fleet to bio diesel.
- Status