Is EVERYTHING meaningless?

[Nihilist]

It seems to me that if one took a ‘global’ perspective of the world, it would be a bunch of people moving around like ants, moving things here and there, doing, scheming, planning, being born, dying…

Viewed from a million miles aways, it just a lump of rock in space. Meaningless.

Now, if one were to view the entire EVERYTHING (the Universe, its Creator, it origin, is final end) from an absolutely transcendent point of view- the WHOLE thing (Creation, Existence, time, space, etc.) is totally pointless. A trillion years of time, a billion universes, millions of people being born, laboring, suffering and dying, all human efforts eventually reduced to dust. And this is just one planet out of billions. In the end, happiness and sorrow are the same. One fate comes to all. Everything seems futile…

So it feels to me, right now. How can we look at infinity without feeling sick- or consider existence without nausea?

Is this philosophy, or just a feeling?

Is there a philosophical answer to this feeling I have…

 

[SoulSolace]

Sure. You’re a Nihilist.

Seriously, it only doesn’t have meaning if one doesn’t consider the eternal.
Without the eternal, it all is pointless.

Your description closely resembles the same imagery I’ve had in my own mind quite often. And that is what drew me to the conclusion that there must be more to it than just this life here on Earth.

God bless.

 

[faithfulwannabe]

There’s eternal love of God. And it’s never meaningless.

 

[RedFox0456]

It’s meaningless if physicality is all there is to the universe. Fortunately, God has imbued within us an eternal soul.

 

[losh14]

Let me go in the opposite direction of your continuum.

You take two people, one my age, one very young, and the one who is very young is only sleeping. Simple breaths, fluttering eyelids, calm. The one my age is looking at the child with nothing short of wonder at this perfect little person. Not wanting to put the baby down, for fear of waking her, and not wanting to lose the preciousness of this moment, because she’ll never be as little as she is now. Neither of them move. It is a moment of profound meaning, even if it is only a moment, unobservable if you are not in the room right then.

We aren’t universal beings. I’d argue we are spiritual beings having a human experience, and that is where our domain lies. Billions of years is meaningless to us, because we exist for only a fraction, so what matters to us is the 50 or 70 or 100 years allowed us. For the friends I have buried, their 30 years, 26 years, 22 years, 11 years … meant everything to them and to those who love them, who keep a picture on their desks and their names in their prayers.

This is why you don’t find meaning on that far end of the continuum where time is measured in eons and space in light-years. Infinity is not our habitat, and can only be digested with a sense of awe or of fear, but it has to be left alone because we don’t live nor do our work there. Our work is here and now - my typing to you, your reading it, and my going outside to breathe the air, call my friends, play with my children.

 

[empther]

Did you ever see a movie that made you cheer, or cry, or both?

You wouldn’t have done that if life was meaningless. You’re cheering or crying because of the promising future shown in the movie. You know it isn’t all meaningless.

 

[schaeffer]

It’s not meaningless to me.

No one can imbue meaning for another person.

I like the earth, the Sun, the stars, my pets, a good meal, the pretty clouds in the sky, all sorts of things.

What sort of meaning do you need? What sort of outside validation before you allow yourself to truly live and enjoy life?

I don’t believe in eternal life etc, but that doesn’t keep me from experiencing life and putting my whole self into it. That would be like having an ice cream cone and instead of eating it watching it melt and being sad because it’s not going to last forever.

I do know many people live their life that way though.

 

[Bahman]

Everything is meaningless in regards to thought but not feeling.

 

[Nihilist]

There’s eternal love of God. And it’s never meaningless.

Sure. Love is not meaningless- from the point of view of those loving, and being loved. Joy, sorrow, etc., must necessarily mean something to the person experiencing them.

And, by empathy, to others…

 

[Nihilist]

.

We aren’t universal beings. I’d argue we are spiritual beings having a human experience, and that is where our domain lies. Billions of years is meaningless to us, because we exist for only a fraction, so what matters to us is the 50 or 70 or 100 years allowed us. For the friends I have buried, their 30 years, 26 years, 22 years, 11 years … meant everything to them and to those who love them, who keep a picture on their desks and their names in their prayers.

This is why you don’t find meaning on that far end of the continuum where time is measured in eons and space in light-years. Infinity is not our habitat, and can only be digested with a sense of awe or of fear, but it has to be left alone because we don’t live nor do our work there. Our work is here and now - my typing to you, your reading it, and my going outside to breathe the air, call my friends, play with my children.

It’s not meaningless to me.

No one can imbue meaning for another person.

I like the earth, the Sun, the stars, my pets, a good meal, the pretty clouds in the sky, all sorts of things.

What sort of meaning do you need? What sort of outside validation before you allow yourself to truly live and enjoy life?

I.

Thank you.

I believe, correct me if I am wrong, that you are both saying that the senation of ‘meaninglessness’ arises from taking a wrong or artifical perspective- either of looking at a vast time frame, or seeking some external validation- in other words, of trying to evaluate life ‘outside’ of life.

On the other hand, such an approach (stepping artificially into a ‘non-human’ perspective) can also be a source of consolation. The Stoic saying, “Everything passes”, is double-edged sword. It makes suffering tolerable, yet it also makes all efforts, in a sense, meaningless.

Does this seem like a true assessment?

 

[oldcelt]

Thank you.

I believe, correct me if I am wrong, that you are both saying that the senation of ‘meaninglessness’ arises from taking a wrong or artifical perspective- either of looking at a vast time frame, or seeking some external validation- in other words, of trying to evaluate life ‘outside’ of life.

On the other hand, such an approach (stepping artificially into a ‘non-human’ perspective) can also be a source of consolation. The Stoic saying, “Everything passes”, is double-edged sword. It makes suffering tolerable, yet it also makes all efforts, in a sense, meaningless.

Does this seem like a true assessment?

The meaning in life is finding the joy that is here with our fellow creatures.If there is no eternal life, then this what we have to work with and I try to leave a positive mark every day.I don’t always succeed, but there is much to be said for the effort.

 

[Nihilist]

The meaning in life is finding the joy that is here with our fellow creatures.If there is no eternal life, then this what we have to work with and I try to leave a positive mark every day.I don’t always succeed, but there is much to be said for the effort.

If there is no eternal life, do we really"have to work" on joy in the here and now?

Wouldn’t it be just a reasonable simply to fold our arms and say “#$@ it!”?

I don’t raise this question just to be perverse- it’s how I generally feel, and lots of others surely…

 

[oldcelt]

If there is no eternal life, do we really"have to work" on joy in the here and now?

Wouldn’t it be just a reasonable simply to fold our arms and say “#$@ it!”?

I don’t raise this question just to be perverse- it’s how I generally feel, and lots of others surely…

I understand your point, truly. I have just made a conscious choice to find the good of this life.

 

[Oreoracle]

It seems to me that nihilists always get hung up on the pointless tautology: “If I ignore my own passions, there is no value to life”. Well of course there isn’t, because value is subjective; that is, your passions are what supply the value to begin with. “My life is valuable” is just a shorthand for “I cherish my own existence to the extent that I am willing to go to great lengths to preserve it, including thwarting others when they attempt to end it”.

In short, your reasoning only leads to nihilism if you try to imagine that morality must be objective. Then you reach the inevitable conclusion that that assumption doesn’t make sense, hence the problem.

 

[oldcelt]

It seems to me that nihilists always get hung up on the pointless tautology: “If I ignore my own passions, there is no value to life”. Well of course there isn’t, because value is subjective; that is, your passions are what supply the value to begin with. “My life is valuable” is just a shorthand for “I cherish my own existence to the extent that I am willing to go to great lengths to preserve it, including thwarting others when they attempt to end it”.

In short, your reasoning only leads to nihilism if you try to imagine that morality must be objective. Then you reach the inevitable conclusion that that assumption doesn’t make sense, hence the problem.

Agreed. There are many true wonders and joys in this life…a precious few even worth fighting for. I am in constant severe pain, and some days are difficult, even to the point of considering the ultimate solution. But I still try to look hopefully on each new day and hope that I can accomplish something that will make out little blue ball just a bit better.

 

[schaeffer]

If there is no eternal life, do we really"have to work" on joy in the here and now?

Wouldn’t it be just a reasonable simply to fold our arms and say “#$@ it!”?

I don’t raise this question just to be perverse- it’s how I generally feel, and lots of others surely…

It would be reasonable, but it would be less fun and purposeful.

Evolution gave me a will to live, keep my body alive, seek pleasure, avoid unnecessary pain, seek company and cooperation of other humans, be creative, all sorts of things.

Yes, also the trait of thinking, pondering etc.

When my brain dies, that’s the end of my consciousness, it won’t be needed anymore to keep this body alive. Meanwhile, evolution gave me a personality to interact with the things and people around me, often enjoyably.

It makes way less sense to ME, given this life is basically it for me, to spend it being dissapointed that this life is it for me.

I am not sure what YOU mean by “f*** it!” or how much effort it would take for you to enjoy life, I think that varies a lot in different people.

I have found that for me to say “f*** it” has led to a lower quality of life experience for me. I think that evolution gave my brain that function too, to realize that certain behaviors and choices lower quality of life. In the end, whether we believe in eternity or not each person decides what they are willing to do to have the experience they value.

My ex called me a nihilist because I don’t believe there is an ultimate purpose or meaning to everything that is on any level I can (or need to) understand. But that doesn’t leave me depressed or despondent. My function is to live my life, and I can do that without having the Universe all figured out. I am comfortable with my very day to day, practical, down to earth “meaning”.

When I spent too much time and energy on the “meaning of it all” it made me nuts and I didn’t enjoy life at all.

I really identify with the guy who wrote (or narrates?) Ecclesiastes

 

[tonyrey]

The meaning in life is finding the joy that is here with our fellow creatures.If there is no eternal life, then this what we have to work with and I try to leave a positive mark every day.I don’t always succeed, but there is much to be said for the effort.

Believing there is no eternal life is negative, not positive. It also implies that “positive marks” are illusions because efforts are also illusions! As Lear said, nothing shall come of nothing…

 

[tonyrey]

It would be reasonable, but it would be less fun and purposeful.

Evolution gave me a will to live, keep my body alive, seek pleasure, avoid unnecessary pain, seek company and cooperation of other humans, be creative, all sorts of things.

How could a blind force possibly give you “a will to live” and “be creative”? There is no such thing as “you” in a purposeless world. From the scientific point of view you are no more than a biological organism functioning according to the laws of nature.

Yes, also the trait of thinking, pondering etc.

From the scientific point of view there are only electrical impulses in the brain…

When my brain dies, that’s the end of my consciousness, it won’t be needed anymore to keep this body alive. Meanwhile, evolution gave me a personality to interact with the things and people around me, often enjoyably.

How could an **impersonal **process possibly create a personality? It would be a miracle!

It makes way less sense to ME, given this life is basically it for me, to spend it being dissapointed that this life is it for me.

In a senseless world **nothing **makes sense…

I am not sure what YOU mean by “f*** it!” or how much effort it would take for you to enjoy life, I think that varies a lot in different people. I have found that for me to say “f*** it” has led to a lower quality of life experience for me. I think that evolution gave my brain that function too, to realize that certain behaviors and choices lower quality of life. In the end, whether we believe in eternity or not each person decides what they are willing to do to have the experience they value.

The miraculous power of a blind process seems inexhaustible! It is even supposed to endow biological organisms with free will…

My ex called me a nihilist because I don’t believe there is an ultimate purpose or meaning to everything that is on any level I can (or need to) understand. But that doesn’t leave me depressed or despondent. My function is to live my life, and I can do that without having the Universe all figured out. I am comfortable with my very day to day, practical, down to earth “meaning”.

Self-deception is obviously widespread!

When I spent too much time and energy on the “meaning of it all” it made me nuts and I didn’t enjoy life at all.

I really identify with the guy who wrote (or narrates?) Ecclesiastes

Without taking “All is vanity” to its logical conclusion. :ehh:

 

[tonyrey]

Agreed. There are many true wonders and joys in this life…a precious few even worth fighting for. I am in constant severe pain, and some days are difficult, even to the point of considering the ultimate solution. But I still try to look hopefully on each new day and hope that I can accomplish something that will make out little blue ball just a bit better.

There is no reason why anyone should be in constant severe pain except in a backward society.

 

[oldcelt]

There is no reason why anyone should be in constant severe pain except in a backward society.

Psoriatic arthritis throughout my body. If they would drug me enough to stop the pain, I would be non-functional. There is no way to stop it, since it is auto immune, but it can be slowed and controlled to a degree. I’m thankful to still be walking and using my hands to a degree.
Maybe in time, they’ll come up with something better.