Is faith a gift?

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If faith is a gift why is it so hard to give away? Or is it a gift from God not actually given to some? Does everyone have this gift or no? What does this gift comprise of to those who are not Christian? What does it mean?

Must it be supernaturally infused into a individual?

What does faith mean to one who doesn’t have faith in the supernatural? Is it a lack of something others have more of?
 
Well, if it is not God who works in us “both to will and to do of his good pleasure” (Philippians 2:13), then Paul and James clearly contradict each other.

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9

“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” James 2:24
To quote a little Hispanic girl when asked about some particular taco shells:

“Why not both?”
 
What you are failing to acknowledge is that God is also employing the “election” to display his wrath.

“What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: and that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory” Romans 9:22-23
Those verses of chapter 9 can be made meaningful by the ones that follow it…

As he says in Hosea:

“I will call them ‘my people’ who are not my people;
and I will call her ‘my loved one’ who is not my loved one,”

and,

“In the very place where it was said to them,
‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called ‘children of the living God.’” -Rom 9 25-26

Paul is telling the people that the way they defined ‘election’ before was only a little part of the story of human salvation. But now by the light of Christ and divine adoption, ‘children of the living God’ are not limited to physical descent.
Well, if it is not God who works in us “both to will and to do of his good pleasure” (Philippians 2:13), then Paul and James clearly contradict each other.
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9
“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” James 2:24
Ok so we all know the Word of God could never ‘contradict’ itself and therefore we, by striving to understand who the speaker is and the audience he speaks to, we are able to hear God most clearly.

Paul adressing the Ephesians is speaking of ‘faith of the people’ or what we call now ‘faith of the Church’. We can know by the following verses where Paul talks about the Jewish practice of circumcision and what that played in defining the ‘chosen people’.

Whereas James is addressing the faith of each person. His personal relationship with God. It’s like the difference in defining the love of parents for their family and the love between a parent and child.

It’s important to read bible verses within the context of the whole chapter or even group of chapters, to glean the overall meaning. It can actually be harmful to our faith to isolate a sentence of a verse and base your relationship with God on that alone.
 
Paul is telling the people that the way they defined ‘election’ before was only a little part of the story of human salvation. But now by the light of Christ and divine adoption, ‘children of the living God’ are not limited to physical descent.
Who are “they?” There is no “they.” God is the one who elects.

You can’t bring yourself to acknowledge that the Scriptures clearly portray a God who is partial - a God who shows “favoritism.”

You want evidence?

“And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (for the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth) it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.” Romans 9:10-13

God loves Jacob, but he hates Esau. Why? Well, it is not based on “any good or evil” each may have done. Neither is is because of any individual works. In fact, he loved Jacob and hated Esau before either were yet born! God loves Jacob and hates Esau because God is partial. He shows favoritism.

“Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.” Romans 9:18

If God hardens hearts (which the Scriptures clearly teach), then we can’t invoke the free will defense.

What about the Jews?

“Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:” Romans 9:29

Only a remnant of Jews will be saved. (It seems to me that you have conveniently ignored that fact.)

Why?

“But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law.” Romans 9:31-32

Because the Jews sought God’s righteousness by works, not faith. Remember, according to Paul, we are saved “by grace through faith” and not of ourselves. It is the “gift of God, not of works.” Ephesians 2:8-9

“Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant [of Jews] according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.” Romans 11:5-6

The election is comprised of only a remnant of Jews. (The vast majority of the elect are Gentiles.) And why have the Jews rejected Christ? Because God has blinded the vast majority of the Jews (so much for your free will theory).

“What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded (according as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear) unto this day.” Romans 11: 7
Ok so we all know the Word of God could never ‘contradict’ itself
To reiterate: “If it is not God who works in us “both to will and to do of his good pleasure” (Philippians 2:13), then Paul and James clearly contradict each other.”
Paul adressing the Ephesians is speaking of ‘faith of the people’ or what we call now ‘faith of the Church’. We can know by the following verses where Paul talks about the Jewish practice of circumcision and what that played in defining the ‘chosen people’.

Whereas James is addressing the faith of each person. His personal relationship with God. It’s like the difference in defining the love of parents for their family and the love between a parent and child.

It’s important to read bible verses within the context of the whole chapter or even group of chapters, to glean the overall meaning. It can actually be harmful to our faith to isolate a sentence of a verse and base your relationship with God on that alone.
I have just provided you with numerous verses where Paul clearly states that salvation is due to faith, not works. I have also furnished you with several verses where God is portrayed as manipulating hearts in order to accomplish his will. I’m afraid you don’t have the luxury of simply ignoring these facts.
 
God is the one who elects.
And their trials are the greatest as they serve the servants. So God is serving His servants through His elect. As Paul states 1-Corinthians 3

The Role of God’s Ministers.*
5
What is Apollos, after all, and what is Paul? Ministers* through whom you became believers, just as the Lord assigned each one.
6
I planted, Apollos watered, but God caused the growth.d
7
Therefore, neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who causes the growth.

usccb.org/bible/1corinthians/3/
 
Who are “they?” There is no “they.” God is the one who elects.

You can’t bring yourself to acknowledge that the Scriptures clearly portray a God who is partial - a God who shows “favoritism.”

You want evidence?

“And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (for the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth) it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.” Romans 9:10-13

God loves Jacob, but he hates Esau. Why? Well, it is not based on “any good or evil” each may have done. Neither is is because of any individual works. In fact, he loved Jacob and hated Esau before either were yet born! God loves Jacob and hates Esau because God is partial. He shows favoritism.

“Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.” Romans 9:18

If God hardens hearts (which the Scriptures clearly teach), then we can’t invoke the free will defense.

What about the Jews?

“Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:” Romans 9:29

Only a remnant of Jews will be saved. (It seems to me that you have conveniently ignored that fact.)

Why?

“But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law.” Romans 9:31-32

Because the Jews sought God’s righteousness by works, not faith. Remember, according to Paul, we are saved “by grace through faith” and not of ourselves. It is the “gift of God, not of works.” Ephesians 2:8-9

“Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant [of Jews] according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.” Romans 11:5-6

The election is comprised of only a remnant of Jews. (The vast majority of the elect are Gentiles.) And why have the Jews rejected Christ? Because God has blinded the vast majority of the Jews (so much for your free will theory).

“What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded (according as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear) unto this day.” Romans 11: 7

To reiterate: “If it is not God who works in us “both to will and to do of his good pleasure” (Philippians 2:13), then Paul and James clearly contradict each other.”

I have just provided you with numerous verses where Paul clearly states that salvation is due to faith, not works. I have also furnished you with several verses where God is portrayed as manipulating hearts in order to accomplish his will. I’m afraid you don’t have the luxury of simply ignoring these facts.
I don’t really understand what your intent is here? Are you saying that Paul in these verses is to be believed but that James is to be ignored? That there is genuine contradiction in the Bible? How do you understand James?

“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” James 2:24
 
We know that we must go to Jesus Christ to receive this gift of Faith. We also know from Holy Scripture that no one goes to Jesus unless the Father sends him, and no one goes to the Father except through Jesus. It’s God’s move. Of course it is understood that the Father wants the salvation of all men, that’s why He sent His Son, to arrest mankind from the spiritual bondage of Satan, and reinstate mankind in grace that was lost by Adam, the Holy
Spirit. The Father ( in my understanding) disposes one to approach His Son. He can do this by causing events to happen in a person’s life that leads him to seek truth, to suffer, to cause man to seek answers to meaning in life. He may cause man to seek relief from suffering, to seek more happiness. The Father by His providence can cause man to become aware of His Son, and His purpose. He provides the occasions to do this. If the person is humble, sincere he is disposed. Life can make a man humble and sincere, especially if he is seeking the truth. Seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be open. God causes the movement of the will, the desire to go to His Son Lord cause me to love you! God chooses us we don’t choose Him God causes us to will and to accomplish.
 
If faith is a gift why is it so hard to give away?
Faith is not hard to share but for one reason or another not everyone is receptive…
Or is it a gift from God not actually given to some? Does everyone have this gift or no?
Everyone has faith in something but it is often unbalanced.
What does this gift comprise of to those who are not Christian? What does it mean?
Non-Christians have spiritual values which are common to all religions.
Must it be supernaturally infused into a individual?
153 When St. Peter confessed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, Jesus declared to him that this revelation did not come “from flesh and blood”, but from “my Father who is in heaven”.24 Faith is a gift of God, a supernatural virtue infused by him. "Before this faith can be exercised, man must have the grace of God to move and assist him; he must have the interior helps of the Holy Spirit, who moves the heart and converts it to God, who opens the eyes of the mind and ‘makes it easy for all to accept and believe the truth.’"25
What does faith mean to one who doesn’t have faith in the supernatural? Is it a lack of something others have more of?
People without a religion have spiritual values. They recognise the difference between good and evil, right and wrong, justice and injustice…
 
Is the greater good absolutely transcendent, be it what it may be, is it one of relevance or absolute truth and reason. Is the greater good bound to our rationality and reason?
 
If faith is a gift why is it so hard to give away?
Have you concluded for sure that it is yours to give???
Or is it a gift from God not actually given to some?
Does this question have valid semantic content?
Does everyone have this gift or no? What does this gift comprise of to those who are not Christian? What does it mean?
Faith, a I understand its use here, is a subset of the innate necessity and “hard wiring” of humans having to with believing. Each human is born into circumstances not in their control. Some are born in an igloo, a palace, a grass hut, a wigwam, a yurt, something made of mud or bricks, a hut, a shanty, or a home that some few of us think of as a home. Believing is a necessity of survival in any of those circumstances. The contents of that belief are peculiar to the time and tone of that culture, general and familial, and its conditions. “Faith” is a subset of the propensity to and necessity of believing. What one believes, as is easy to figure out, is what one grows up with, as modified by experience and interest.
Must it be supernaturally infused into a individual?
Some people have spiritual experiences, or, more often, emotional experience they mistake for spiritual. Most often, due to lack of due diligence the default position is to explain those in terms of one’s faith. Ask any Shintoist, Chritafarian, Baha’i, cargo cultist, shaman follower, Christian, beleiver i luck, Jew, Muslim, or whatever. If something “spiritual” happens to them, it happens as interpreted through their lens of belief.
What does faith mean to one who doesn’t have faith in the supernatural? Is it a lack of something others have more of?
Some people have spiritual experiences, or emotional experience they mistake for spiritual. Most often, due to lack of due diligence the default position is to explain those in terms of one’s faith. Ask any Shintoist, Chritafarian, Baha’i, cargo cultist, shaman follower, Christian, beleiver i luck, Jew, Muslim, or whatever. If something “spiritual” happens to them, it happens as interpreted through their lens of belief.

What is baffling is that in the face of the clear evidence that not two people believe exactly the same thing for the same reason, why is the hard work of doing a thorough self inquiry and assessment of one’self as a phenomenon so rarely done? I think often it is because the very belief system, whatever it may be, including political, emotional ans social, the very belief system itself acts as a barrier to self examination in terms of a wider or Universal reality. And because that belief system is there originally as a survival mechanism, all of the pre-verbal and pre cognitive injunctions, about the last thing anyone will do is voluntarily subject it to dispassionate scrutiny analysis. This is why so many have said, from experience,
“The search for Reality is the most dangerous undertaking; it will destroy your world.”
Why is that said? It is very simple. The world as each of us perceives it is primarily a construct which has enough symbolic correlation with Reality to allow us to function, despite errors in judgement and perception of astonishing magnitude. It takes a remarkable personal strength and integrity to embark on an inner journey of actual self observation and deal with the consequences of that. Or it takes a shock so significant that one must conclude that they are either no longer in Kansas, or that the looking glass is one freaky adventure. But beyond those is some much greater semblance of Reality, as at least the initial barriers of preconception fall away. How many even ever experientially realize that that their entire world view is heavily, if not completely, influenced by preconceptions that are completely circumstantial? What a gift to see past even some of these!

So for may part, a way more important set of questions is about how to get beyond belief and faith, other than as an initial survival necessity. And how does that bear on religion, especially those on here who might surely react to this view? I submit that in the same way as political views are passed down, so are religious ones. Does this invalidate the religious beliefs? In the sense that they might be rote, yes. In the sense that they might have an ultimate symbolic referent that might be arrived at? Not necessarily. But as Nicoll points out there are a minimum of three levels to the interpretation of the miracles and parables of the Christ. And that idea might be very much more widely distributed over other scriptures and faiths with more useful results than expected.
 
Hi, Sochi, First we have to conclude its a gift-Faith, be it mine or anyone’s. I would think if its true for example Faith, love and hope-gifts, then we can’t keep them unless we give them away. By giving them away we keep them. No semantics, searching is all, and it seems at similar points on a few threads. Interesting point to consider, hard wired, so this is a universal absolute? Is it clear evidence that not two people believe exactly the same thing for the same reason? Or is it true that many believe in comparative principles, for example that we shouldn’t be cannibals or kill. I don’t know about the survival necessity, I would only suggest that may well run full circle to faith and belief.
 
Is the greater good absolutely transcendent, be it what it may be, is it one of relevance or absolute truth and reason. Is the greater good bound to our rationality and reason?
Faith certainly can not be the product of reason, but it is never contrary to reason, it is reasonable. Faith in God is based on the Absolute. God is the Author of reason and truth, God is truth. It is the work of the Holy Spirit, so it does transcend all human effort and this world, and man himself. It is Divine Election. One can receive it no matter their rational capabilities. It is freely given Children receive it, Kings receive it, murderers receive it, poor receive it, rich receive it, the ignorant receive it, the intelligent receive it. God does give grace to the humble, and resists the proud. How can a thief be humble, "Lord remember me when you come into your Kingdom, " How can I be humble, "Lord Forgive me, I am a sinner, I need You.
 
Faith in God is based on the Absolute.
I hear what your saying, the problem is everyone doesn’t believe in God, that you and I do doesn’t make it an absolute for them. So faith in God for them is an absolute?

So what is their Faith based on would you say?

Faith certainly can not be the product of reason, but it is never contrary to reason, here though consider those who don’t believe in God, they don’t know God, are you saying their Faith is not a product of reason?

Consider that if their faith isn’t contrary to reason than what of cannibals and wanton killers? How does this type of faith and reason coincide with tolerance of those who don’t have this sort of faith and reason?
 
I hear what your saying, the problem is everyone doesn’t believe in God, that you and I do doesn’t make it an absolute for them. So faith in God for them is an absolute?

So what is their Faith based on would you say?

Faith certainly can not be the product of reason, but it is never contrary to reason, here though consider those who don’t believe in God, they don’t know God, are you saying their Faith is not a product of reason?

Consider that if their faith isn’t contrary to reason than what of cannibals and wanton killers? How does this type of faith and reason coincide with tolerance of those who don’t have this sort of faith and reason?
It appears to me that that cannibals and wanton killers that their faith is contrary to reason maybe i
I am misunderstanding you… When I said Faith is not contrary to reason, I was speaking of Christian Faith. Primitive cultures have faith, but it is based on ignorance,not necessarily on total ignorance although they do recognize a superior power and they have their false idols, such as animals, our society has false idols too, it is called “the Golden Calf” We all believe in something , in our selves, in others, by necessity, we despite our hates and incapacities are created "social beings by God even if we don’t act socially. Faith in anything that is not God can not be an Absolute. If primitive cultures believe in a superior power, to that degree it is an Absolute. Their interpretation of that power maybe wrong. What ever truth they do perceive belongs to the Absolute It’s in man’s nature to desire the truth
 
Who are “they?” There is no “they.” God is the one who elects.

You can’t bring yourself to acknowledge that the Scriptures clearly portray a God who is partial - a God who shows “favoritism.”

You want evidence?

“And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (for the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth) it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.” Romans 9:10-13

God loves Jacob, but he hates Esau. Why? Well, it is not based on “any good or evil” each may have done. Neither is is because of any individual works. In fact, he loved Jacob and hated Esau before either were yet born! God loves Jacob and hates Esau because God is partial. He shows favoritism.

“Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.” Romans 9:18

If God hardens hearts (which the Scriptures clearly teach), then we can’t invoke the free will defense.

What about the Jews?

“Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:” Romans 9:29

Only a remnant of Jews will be saved. (It seems to me that you have conveniently ignored that fact.)

Why?

“But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law.” Romans 9:31-32

Because the Jews sought God’s righteousness by works, not faith. Remember, according to Paul, we are saved “by grace through faith” and not of ourselves. It is the “gift of God, not of works.” Ephesians 2:8-9

“Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant [of Jews] according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.” Romans 11:5-6

The election is comprised of only a remnant of Jews. (The vast majority of the elect are Gentiles.) And why have the Jews rejected Christ? Because God has blinded the vast majority of the Jews (so much for your free will theory).

“What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded (according as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear) unto this day.” Romans 11: 7

To reiterate: “If it is not God who works in us “both to will and to do of his good pleasure” (Philippians 2:13), then Paul and James clearly contradict each other.”

I have just provided you with numerous verses where Paul clearly states that salvation is due to faith, not works. I have also furnished you with several verses where God is portrayed as manipulating hearts in order to accomplish his will. I’m afraid you don’t have the luxury of simply ignoring these facts.
You have proven no such thing. You have selected one or two verses and banked your interpretation on those only, you read Scriptures selectively. You have to read Scriptures as a whole. But we have a source of truth that is before Scriptures and that is Tradition from which Scriptures, and that Tradition is infallibly taught by the Catholic Church as Christ promised. And the Church has taught, from the beginning that both Faith and Works are required of the followers of Christ.

But just as important, Hope, Love and grace are required. For it is by grace that we are justified, a grace merited for us by the Sacrifice of Christ.

Linus2nd
 
Primitive cultures have faith, but it is based on ignorance,not necessarily on total ignorance although they do recognize a superior power and they have their false idols, such as animals, our society has false idols too, it is called “the Golden Calf” We all believe in something , in our selves, in others, by necessity, we despite our hates and incapacities are created "social beings by God even if we don’t act socially. Faith in anything that is not God can not be an Absolute. If primitive cultures believe in a superior power, to that degree it is an Absolute. Their interpretation of that power maybe wrong. What ever truth they do perceive belongs to the Absolute It’s in man’s nature to desire the truth
Right, so there is one truth-absolute, so when whoever it may be reaches this conclusion how should their understanding and others who come to contrary conclusions reach tolerance when ignorance and feelings of superior power they are embracing exist?
 
Right, so there is one truth-absolute, so when whoever it may be reaches this conclusion how should their understanding and others who come to contrary conclusions reach tolerance when ignorance and feelings of superior power they are embracing exist?
Like Christian Missionaries who go to the primitive cultures and teach the Good News, act with Christian love. Becoming instruments of God’s grace. They can not determine who will be converted, but it’s the Gospel message of the good seed, falling on rocky soil, shallow soil, or good soil. We tolerate because we know that people have different beliefs conditioned by what they experience and what they know, or believe they know we respect their positions, not necessarily their beliefs, their beliefs may be contrary to ours. We try to come to an agreement to what we believe is true, if there is no agreement like St. Paul we move on. I can see their position too. They believe they know the truth. Jesus and St.Paul in order to convince people used the Power of the Holy Spirit, they did supernatural things.like healing, and raising people to life, and they exorcised demons even then some didn’t believe. It’s the curse and the blessing of free will, is the will motivated for good, or is it motivated for evil. The opposition to Jesus was caused by envy and jealousy, lies, and pride. this is not good will, and you can be assured Satan had a lot to do with it.
 
The opposition to Jesus was also call :“ignorance” Father forgive them for they know not what they do"
 
Like Christian Missionaries who go to the primitive cultures and teach the Good News, act with Christian love. Becoming instruments of God’s grace. They can not determine who will be converted, but it’s the Gospel message of the good seed, falling on rocky soil, shallow soil, or good soil. We tolerate because we know that people have different beliefs conditioned by what they experience and what they know, or believe they know we respect their positions, not necessarily their beliefs, their beliefs may be contrary to ours. We try to come to an agreement to what we believe is true, if there is no agreement like St. Paul we move on. I can see their position too. They believe they know the truth. Jesus and St.Paul in order to convince people used the Power of the Holy Spirit, they did supernatural things.like healing, and raising people to life, and they exorcised demons even then some didn’t believe. It’s the curse and the blessing of free will, is the will motivated for good, or is it motivated for evil. The opposition to Jesus was caused by envy and jealousy, lies, and pride. this is not good will, and you can be assured Satan had a lot to do with it.
So the best teacher is a good example also? And so then these virtues which we can’t keep till we give away, such as Faith, Hope, Love-Charity, we unselfishly give away in thought, action and deed? And we do this to reinforce our own, so by giving it away we keep it.

Sounds like music.
 
I don’t really understand what your intent is here? Are you saying that Paul in these verses is to be believed but that James is to be ignored? That there is genuine contradiction in the Bible? How do you understand James?

“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” James 2:24
There is an *apparent *contradiction here between Paul and James. I have furnished you with one possible resolution to this conundrum by proposing that the Scriptures actually refer to different aspects of God’s will (i.e. the decretal will and the prescriptive will); the good works that faith produces in the life of the Christian are the result of God’s decretal will, because it is God who works in the believer both to will and to do of his good pleasure (Philippians 2:13). IOW, we don’t produce the works, God does.

However, you have rejected this resolution; therefore, the onus is upon you to provide another resolution which is more compelling. Unfortunately, you have failed to furnish us with a more compelling resolution, therefore we must conclude that Paul and James contradict each other. That’s the only other option.
 
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