Is french kissing ok?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Harmony1988
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes." Catechism (Church approved)
vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm

Any persuit of pleasure between intimates outside of marriage (procreative and unitive) is disordered, seeking unity, like hugs, normal kisses, etc is NOT pursuit of pleasure, or it would be lust.

Lust is always persuit of sexual pleasure missing one or both aspects, in any circumstance!

p.s. Applejuice, I’m glad to make aquaintance, marc.👍
I’m a bit thrown by what you mean by “normal kisses.” Are you refering to non-tongue involved kissing? Because french kissing isn’t wrong in itself. The application of it and each person’s intention is where the sin comes from.

Sorry if I’m poking at this. I just want to be sure. When I french kiss my gf, soon to be fiance, I don’t do so with intention of being unchaste. Nor do I envision the act. I simply feel a loving desire towards her.
 
Aquinas condemned every form of kissing, except where it has a ceremonial or societal importance- he did so in that it is seeking sexual enjoyment apart from an opportunity to make children and with this create stronger bonds.

French kissing is foreplay.

Now, we know his reason for excluding ceremony is that kissing itself is neutral, but is often an acting of lust on one side or the other, if the pleasure is not sought- but rather a sign of love- then kissing is no sin at all- but if either side is acting out of lust- then it is sin- so maybe ask her why she kisses you, it must be as a sign, or such or it is a mortal sin, one you share in her sin, that you allow. Otherwise it is foreplay- which is meant for marriage (Humane Vitae), yet you should be very careful here. www.chastity.com (Catholic Answers chastity site) warns that is is a place of danger and we know it can influence how easy it is to do some other things, or too early physical contact can affect a relationship. Generally- if another is prepared to forfeit this, then it is sign of real love, and not simply lust. Even non-catholics are under every rule we are, except ceremonial laws perhaps, which falls under their already rejection, which Augustine calls the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost (unless unintentional). Of course Aquinas, also allows for deliberate sin also to fall into this- sinning for the pleasure of sin.

The point is, I think for the relationship- wait til marriage.

And in most cases- it is

“I answer that, A thing is said to be a mortal works. sin in two ways. First, by reason of its species, and in this way a kiss, caress, or touch does not, of its very nature, imply a mortal sin, for it is possible to do such things without lustful pleasure, either as being the custom of one’s country, or on account of some obligation or reasonable cause. Secondly, a thing is said to be a mortal sin by reason of its cause: thus he who gives an alms, in order to lead someone into heresy, sins mortally on account of his corrupt intention. Now it has been stated above (I-II, 74, 8), that it is a mortal sin not only to consent to the act, but also to the delectation of a mortal sin. Wherefore since fornication is a mortal sin, and much more so the other kinds of lust, it follows that in such like sins not only consent to the act but also consent to the pleasure is a mortal sin. Consequently, when these kisses and caresses are done for this delectation, it follows that they are mortal sins, and only in this way are they said to be lustful. Therefore in so far as they are lustful, they are mortal sins.”
Imprimatur, Summa Theologica; Saint Thomas Aquinas (the basic Christian basis)
newadvent.org/summa/3154.htm#article4

So, I think we mostly believe we can handle things, but are putting our partner at risk also, and the sin is theres whether they are Catholic or not, so ours is their share in it- that said- I strongly advise to stop, and avoid this- the only speech of the church on this matter condemns it, and this is in line with the CCC-

Lust is all pursuit of sexual pleasure- apart from both the unitive, and the pro-creative properties. This is the definition of lust, therefore if this kissing is in any way a pursuit of sexual pleasure- which it is, then it is lust, and lust is the form of mortal sin, if not the actuality.
 
I’ve been thinking a lot about this myself, and something I came up with was: Should we be expected to live as brothers and sisters until the day we marry? If so, dating is impossible. Hugging, holding hands, kissing are social practices used to show affection towards each other. Lets suppose person X has a boyfriend, person Y. Person X has lots of other really close friends who are also male. If person X can’t even hold person Y’s hand, exactly what is the difference between the relationship of person X and Y and the relationship of person X and her friends? Nothing, really. Because person X also laughs and enjoys herself with all of her friends, just like she does with person Y.
So in this case are we saying that you should just marry as good friends? If every sign of affection is prohibited, a relationship can hardly get past the “really good friends” stage, I think.
 
I’ve been thinking a lot about this myself, and something I came up with was: Should we be expected to live as brothers and sisters until the day we marry? If so, dating is impossible. Hugging, holding hands, kissing are social practices used to show affection towards each other. Lets suppose person X has a boyfriend, person Y. Person X has lots of other really close friends who are also male. If person X can’t even hold person Y’s hand, exactly what is the difference between the relationship of person X and Y and the relationship of person X and her friends? Nothing, really. Because person X also laughs and enjoys herself with all of her friends, just like she does with person Y.
So in this case are we saying that you should just marry as good friends? If every sign of affection is prohibited, a relationship can hardly get past the “really good friends” stage, I think.
There is a big difference between that given relationship between X and Y and the rest of X’s close male friends. X chose Y to be her boyfriend. She didn’t choose anyone else from her closest male friends. Voluntary choice makes all the difference.

And why does it makes a big difference? Because X, given the fact that she is a good catholic, looking out for the right companion to marry her and build a Catholic home and family, chose Y because Y has the same set of ideas and plans of life as she does; because Y is probably as devout Catholic as X is, because Y is willing to live chastly before and after marriage, wants to have a numerous family, and probably, because Y has the right set of personality characteristics which X thinks will perfectly match her needs and own personality characteristics.

So, as you can see, voluntary choice and the reasons behind that voluntary choice/decision make all the difference. X didn’t choose any of her other close male friends because they didn’t fit the profile X is looking for. Apart from that, the relationship that X and Y have between each other is established over a common, primary objective - to get married, to see if it is possible, and wanted by God, for them to get married with each other, and live their lifes together for the rest of their lives. The voluntary choice X made concerning Y and eliminating all of her other close male friends was all about that aspect, too. You choose someone you would marry as a boyfriend/girlfriend - and believe me, it takes time for you to learn from God about what do you need and what God wants for you, and of course, it also takes time and its hard to find a person who is the perfect match, according to all your personal specifications.
 
Marc Aupiasis:

From what I can tell, kissing in the form of lust is condemned. French kissing is probably better reserved for married couples because they are married and committed. However, I’m dragging this on to help answer my own question (didn’t mean to divert thread to help me instead of OP): I’m with a girl who is committed to me and I am to her. We are planned to marry in two-ish years. We understand our love and our thoughts. When we kiss, we aren’t kissing to incite the thought of sex in the other. Also, when we kiss, we aren’t attempting to lead the other into an immoral act. We feel love and unity in kissing. We express how we miss each other and how we care about each other. The kisses mean a lot.

Moreover, we are not just spirits. We are bodies and spirits. Thus when we choose someone, we aren’t just choosing ideas and thoughts and personality, we are choosing body and soul. We worship with body and soul, doesn’t that apply elsewhere?

I’m not asking “how far can we go” or trying to justify something I think is wrong but want to do anyways. I’m trying to understand sin and purity more.
 
I am glad for that brother!

When I seek such- I seek only what God desires for me- and it is sweet and beautiful- we seek more than body and more than soul- we seek the body and soul God wants to combine with us!

God’s blessing

Pax et Catholici,

Marc
 
That said- I know- when we kiss a beautiful girl- we think of nothing but her-

I do of course advise normal kissing instead- the dryness will cause you to push beyond your current relationship into one so much deeper- have you considered praying to saints with her instead of french kissing- or reading together- or else simply sitting together and sharing- the reason we save foreplay like french kissing for marriage- to to build the foundation of our house- that way we are set in stone for success- being so much more than physical partners-

Keep this in mind, and consider praying the rosary with her in this time instead.

God bless, Philomena, and Therese Bless,
Aquinas Bless,

Marc
 
You have permission to private message me if you want- we can continue this discussion here- where others may benefit- or where I can aid you personally- I understand how hard such things can be- not french kissing itself- I never have french kissed- but rather people and relationships- I always try to give these to God’s hands and try my hardest here!

Marc:thumbsup:
 
Wow! Thanks a great deal for the support 🙂

Actually, we have prayed the rosary and done various other prayers together. We attend mass together and are going through RCIA together. Sometimes we do sit close and she’ll do homework or read and I’ll read and such.

I’ll get back to you in more detail in a private message. But as for the public portion of this, I think it’s greatly important to understand one’s feelings and the words attached to those feelings. Words have a great power, and to misuse the words sexual desire and lust can send a person down a very confusing, unfortunate path.
 
Cool- look forward to it- glad you have that!!!

marc:thumbsup:
 
I was told by a very traditional, very orthodox priest that there is no moral teaching against it. A Catholic would be incorrect to state that “french kissing” is intrinsically wrong. Lust, on the other hand, is. If french kissing is not lustful for a particularly strong/disciplined couple, and simply serves to develop a stronger emotional bond between them, I don’t see how it could be sinful. I have personally French kissed many times without lusting…with prayer and discipline it is certainly possible to keep your passions totally in check (at least in my experience).

That being said, I recognize how dangerous it could be for many people.
Sounds reasonable to me. On this site and in this world, a little French kissing is the least of our worries.
 
Aquinas condemned every form of kissing, except where it has a ceremonial or societal importance- he did so in that it is seeking sexual enjoyment apart from an opportunity to make children and with this create stronger bonds.

French kissing is foreplay.

Now, we know his reason for excluding ceremony is that kissing itself is neutral, but is often an acting of lust on one side or the other, if the pleasure is not sought- but rather a sign of love- then kissing is no sin at all- but if either side is acting out of lust- then it is sin- so maybe ask her why she kisses you, it must be as a sign, or such or it is a mortal sin, one you share in her sin, that you allow. Otherwise it is foreplay- which is meant for marriage (Humane Vitae), yet you should be very careful here. www.chastity.com (Catholic Answers chastity site) warns that is is a place of danger and we know it can influence how easy it is to do some other things, or too early physical contact can affect a relationship. Generally- if another is prepared to forfeit this, then it is sign of real love, and not simply lust. Even non-catholics are under every rule we are, except ceremonial laws perhaps, which falls under their already rejection, which Augustine calls the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost (unless unintentional). Of course Aquinas, also allows for deliberate sin also to fall into this- sinning for the pleasure of sin.

The point is, I think for the relationship- wait til marriage.

And in most cases- it is

“I answer that, A thing is said to be a mortal works. sin in two ways. First, by reason of its species, and in this way a kiss, caress, or touch does not, of its very nature, imply a mortal sin, for it is possible to do such things without lustful pleasure, either as being the custom of one’s country, or on account of some obligation or reasonable cause. Secondly, a thing is said to be a mortal sin by reason of its cause: thus he who gives an alms, in order to lead someone into heresy, sins mortally on account of his corrupt intention. Now it has been stated above (I-II, 74, 8), that it is a mortal sin not only to consent to the act, but also to the delectation of a mortal sin. Wherefore since fornication is a mortal sin, and much more so the other kinds of lust, it follows that in such like sins not only consent to the act but also consent to the pleasure is a mortal sin. Consequently, when these kisses and caresses are done for this delectation, it follows that they are mortal sins, and only in this way are they said to be lustful. Therefore in so far as they are lustful, they are mortal sins.”
Imprimatur, Summa Theologica; Saint Thomas Aquinas (the basic Christian basis)
newadvent.org/summa/3154.htm#article4

So, I think we mostly believe we can handle things, but are putting our partner at risk also, and the sin is theres whether they are Catholic or not, so ours is their share in it- that said- I strongly advise to stop, and avoid this- the only speech of the church on this matter condemns it, and this is in line with the CCC-

Lust is all pursuit of sexual pleasure- apart from both the unitive, and the pro-creative properties. This is the definition of lust, therefore if this kissing is in any way a pursuit of sexual pleasure- which it is, then it is lust, and lust is the form of mortal sin, if not the actuality.
Why did God give us all these desires & then expect us to repress them. A priest once told me, man is not as bad as he thinks he is
 
I’ve been thinking a lot about this myself, and something I came up with was: Should we be expected to live as brothers and sisters until the day we marry? If so, dating is impossible. Hugging, holding hands, kissing are social practices used to show affection towards each other. Lets suppose person X has a boyfriend, person Y. Person X has lots of other really close friends who are also male. If person X can’t even hold person Y’s hand, exactly what is the difference between the relationship of person X and Y and the relationship of person X and her friends? Nothing, really. Because person X also laughs and enjoys herself with all of her friends, just like she does with person Y.
So in this case are we saying that you should just marry as good friends? If every sign of affection is prohibited, a relationship can hardly get past the “really good friends” stage, I think.
Dating is a twentieth century invention. We historically relied on family and friends to help in the selection of a mate.
 
Dating is a twentieth century invention. We historically relied on family and friends to help in the selection of a mate.
Most catholics are cohabitating long before they are married, sex urge is strong, maybe its the way its meant to be lust is natural or nobody would ever get married, make no mistake, sex is most important to most catholics & others
 
Most catholics are cohabitating long before they are married, sex urge is strong, maybe its the way its meant to be lust is natural or nobody would ever get married, make no mistake, sex is most important to most catholics & others
Man, what a mess we are in!
 
Where I am- that isn’t the case- it only happens when the teaching of faith breaks down- French kissing is foreplay- in marriage it includes unitive and pro creative(in a short while), outside of marriage it excludes one or both- it is the substance of mortal sin- and as such is lust- which is the substance of mortal sin- therefore it cannot be done outside marriage legitimately.

The state of the Catholics in your country is not the basis of your behavior- bad Catholics can’t make evil good by doing it!

Do you know how many protestants and non-catholics put such people to shame!

Why do these threads always become an excuse for justifying sin?
 
Lust is the twisting, by the devil of natural desire- find that desire and follow it- and the lust disappears!

No suppression required- just following what the weed is suffocating with lust!
 
Why do these threads always become an excuse for justifying sin?
It is because there is not a universal belief that french kissing is sin. Like it has been said a few times on this long thread, the context is important. It is not a simple black and white determination.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top