Is Gay Pride compatible with Catholicism?

[manualman]

Both my grandfathers were likely alcoholics. According to medical science and psychology, this means I likely have a genetic predisposition to alcoholism. Should I stop fighting my destiny and ‘be who God made me to be’ and start drowning my sorrows in JD?

I find it suprising how many people assume that if someone has an inclination that they did not choose, it automatically follows that “God did it.” A lot of people have a LOT of struggles and problems that they need to fight their whole lives. I think we do folks with SSA a major disservice by telling them they must simply ‘be who they are’ while ignoring the consequences. Spend a few minutes reading at NARTH. The ‘gay pride’ lifestyle is one that is inherently self-destructive and insecure. Their apologists have done a slick job scapegoating the heterosexual society for these chronic problems (depression, domestic violence, extreme promiscuity, suicide, drug abuse). Oddly, the incidence of them hasn’t declined as societal acceptance of homosexual behavior has increased. Encouraging people to give in to such impulses is like buying an alcoholic moore booze: false charity.

 

[kahenns]

Hi everyone, I have not been on this website in a long while, but after a disturbing email I just recieved through this “catholic” website, I had to speak my mind, and from my heart to address this issue. There is much that catholics, and other christians obviously, do not understand and do not try to understand about homosexuality and homosexuals as individuals.

The agenda to promote tolerance and understanding of those with SSA is good (a type of civil rights issue).The other agenda is more aggressive–To change the culture into something radically different than what it is founded on—Examples to indoctrinate kids that Homosexual “lifestyle”(gay sex), co-habitation, “marriage” is perfectly acceptable. To do this they have to break God’s laws and His church’s laws. They have to undermine the authentic Christian heritage of this country. They have to infiltrate the media, they have to infiltrate our school system. Through these avenues they have made incredible ‘progress’.

It’s not good for America and families.(and I say that while fully supporting the first agenda).

First off I agree with the quote from above in some sense, because yes there are different types of activists out there. There are people with all sorts of motives behind their LGBTQ activism, but in the most part it is simply a group of people who are comfortable with the way they are and truly believe that they should be accepted as equals. Gay rights activists are not trying to tear down the fabric of this country, if anything they are fighting with the same vigor that the founding fathers did. To say that gay people are “infiltrating” society is ridiculous, they are just trying to share with you and the heterosexists society that things are not black and white, to try and show you life from a perspective that you will NEVER understand unless you truly try to. They are not trying to infiltrate, they are trying to educate, and even if you do not aggree, you should at least understand the motives behind them, they see it as something to respect.

Almost any major scientific study, psychologist, and catholic priest will tell you that homosexuality is not a sin. Being homosexual is very much something that is out of ones own control, and to try and change that is only to cause further mental and spiritual decline. Its time to start respecting life and the beauty of diversity in which that life comes. I don’t know why people are created gay, lesbian, or transgender, but thats the way it is, thats the way God created it, not only in mankind but in a vast array of species.

The “pride” comes about when after hearing all your life about how this one thing is keeping you from God, is keeping you from heaven, is keeping you from being normal… the effects from this is what cause the backlash. After fighting off the temptations for years, trying to be normal, you come to realize that you are normal after all. People find out that they arent evil, and that it is not them that is wrong, but the greater Christian society. And just like Christians that learn about God on Sunday and want to spread what they have learned, so too do these members of the LGBT community want to share what they have learned through life.

If you believed that homosexuality is something that you were born with, like having green eyes or freckles, should you try to change it. With all my soul I know that homosexuality is something like hair color, or eye color, something that is natural. Now that doesnt necessarily mean that it is okay to act on, but it does mean that it should be something you respect; you should respect the way that God created the world; and to think that you should try and change something that is the way God created it, is to have the pride of adam and eve. But to see the beauty in yourself, and others around you is a pride in God, a pride in being made in the image of God.

I love God! I love the fact that I’m gay! And now with God’s help I’m reunited with God’s Church, that I thought had rejected me. Coming Out is one of the best things I have started to do for myself. I used to consider myself a Catholic… then I learned through prayer and love that God’s plan is greater than what men can know, and that me being gay was okay. So I stopped going to mass, but didnt stop praying. But something was lost in my life, I turned away from God’s Church because of a disagreement about one issue. I gained a great feeling of self-acceptance, but only to loose my deep devotion with my Catholic community and family (all of you). But now with the acceptance of my best friend, my older brother, who is becoming a Franciscan, and most importantly with the Holy Spirit giving me courage and strength, I’m back with the Church! This time I will tell anyone who wants to know that I am gay, and a Catholic! They will have to excommunicate me before I leave my father’s house.

I hope and pray that the Holy Spirit gives you the wisdom and understanding to at least try and see it from the perspective of a LGBT person. God Bless. I love you all!

 

[kahenns]

Encouraging people to give in to such impulses is like buying an alcoholic moore booze: false charity.

You just do not understand friend. I have never felt more emotionally secure, mentally stable, and most importantly spiritually intune with God until I learned to give into the fact that I was homosexual. My relationship with God, myself, and my friends for once is something that feels real and true. Booze does not give an alcoholic that. And if you are going to compare the two think about this, what is the first thing that an alcoholic is suppose to do? Admit to being an alcoholic, then and only then can they start to reconcil there relationships with friends, family, and God.

 

[Dale_M]

kahenns, thank you for visiting and sharing part of your life with us. I am so glad you found your way back to the Church.

God bless you and keep you close.

Dale

 

[Franciscan]

Hi everyone, I have not been on this website in a long while, but after a disturbing email I just recieved through this “catholic” website, I had to speak my mind, and from my heart to address this issue. There is much that catholics, and other christians obviously, do not understand and do not try to understand about homosexuality and homosexuals as individuals.

First off I agree with the quote from above in some sense, because yes there are different types of activists out there. There are people with all sorts of motives behind their LGBTQ activism, but in the most part it is simply a group of people who are comfortable with the way they are and truly believe that they should be accepted as equals. Gay rights activists are not trying to tear down the fabric of this country, if anything they are fighting with the same vigor that the founding fathers did. To say that gay people are “infiltrating” society is ridiculous, they are just trying to share with you and the heterosexists society that things are not black and white, to try and show you life from a perspective that you will NEVER understand unless you truly try to. They are not trying to infiltrate, they are trying to educate, and even if you do not aggree, you should at least understand the motives behind them, they see it as something to respect.

Almost any major scientific study, psychologist, and catholic priest will tell you that homosexuality is not a sin. Being homosexual is very much something that is out of ones own control, and to try and change that is only to cause further mental and spiritual decline. Its time to start respecting life and the beauty of diversity in which that life comes. I don’t know why people are created gay, lesbian, or transgender, but thats the way it is, thats the way God created it, not only in mankind but in a vast array of species.

The “pride” comes about when after hearing all your life about how this one thing is keeping you from God, is keeping you from heaven, is keeping you from being normal… the effects from this is what cause the backlash. After fighting off the temptations for years, trying to be normal, you come to realize that you are normal after all. People find out that they arent evil, and that it is not them that is wrong, but the greater Christian society. And just like Christians that learn about God on Sunday and want to spread what they have learned, so too do these members of the LGBT community want to share what they have learned through life.

If you believed that homosexuality is something that you were born with, like having green eyes or freckles, should you try to change it. With all my soul I know that homosexuality is something like hair color, or eye color, something that is natural. Now that doesnt necessarily mean that it is okay to act on, but it does mean that it should be something you respect; you should respect the way that God created the world; and to think that you should try and change something that is the way God created it, is to have the pride of adam and eve. But to see the beauty in yourself, and others around you is a pride in God, a pride in being made in the image of God.

I love God! I love the fact that I’m gay! And now with God’s help I’m reunited with God’s Church, that I thought had rejected me. Coming Out is one of the best things I have started to do for myself. I used to consider myself a Catholic… then I learned through prayer and love that God’s plan is greater than what men can know, and that me being gay was okay. So I stopped going to mass, but didnt stop praying. But something was lost in my life, I turned away from God’s Church because of a disagreement about one issue. I gained a great feeling of self-acceptance, but only to loose my deep devotion with my Catholic community and family (all of you). But now with the acceptance of my best friend, my older brother, who is becoming a Franciscan, and most importantly with the Holy Spirit giving me courage and strength, I’m back with the Church! This time I will tell anyone who wants to know that I am gay, and a Catholic! They will have to excommunicate me before I leave my father’s house.

I hope and pray that the Holy Spirit gives you the wisdom and understanding to at least try and see it from the perspective of a LGBT person. God Bless. I love you all!

From the USCCB’S ‘guidlines for pastoral care’ …

"Given such strong influences in our culture, it is not surprising that there are a number of
groups active in our society that not only deny the existence of objective moral norms but also
aggressively seek public approval for homosexual behavior. The message of such groups
misleads many people and causes considerable harm."

I think the term 'Gay Pride" is a red flag for such groups mentioned above. I agree that they are causing considerable harm.

Do you support the Rainbow Sashers?
Do you support forcing Kidergarteners to “learn” about gay sex?
Do you support “hate speech” bills that would make quoting the Bible illegal?

You have to see this from the average Christian’s persective too. I said some groups that promote understanding SSA are good and needed but where do we draw the line—IMO when they promote the active lifestlyle(which means sex).

 

[Dale_M]

Do you support the Rainbow Sashers?
Do you support forcing Kidergarteners to “learn” about gay sex?
Do you support “hate speech” bills that would make quoting the Bible illegal?

:nope:

 

[Fitswimmer]

I praise God for your faithfulness to God. I rejoice with you over this freedom. Though I do not have such an attraction I need the prayers of those who resist temptations of any kind. Pray for me and I will pray for you.

CDL

Thanks so much, I really do appreciate it and I will be praying for you as well. The hard thing about this is the problem I have of feeling like an island. I don’t belong in the “straight” community because I will never marry or have children, and I don’t belong in the “gay” community because I refuse to commit the sin and live the lifestyle. I have sympathy for the harassment and cruelty directed at many homosexuals, because I understand their feelings. I also understand how easy it would be to give in. Lord knows, I’ve had my moments.

I came to this site primarily because I hoped that I would find others like me here.

 

[Fitswimmer]

You just do not understand friend. I have never felt more emotionally secure, mentally stable, and most importantly spiritually intune with God until I learned to give into the fact that I was homosexual. My relationship with God, myself, and my friends for once is something that feels real and true. Booze does not give an alcoholic that. And if you are going to compare the two think about this, what is the first thing that an alcoholic is suppose to do? Admit to being an alcoholic, then and only then can they start to reconcil there relationships with friends, family, and God.

I feel exactly the same way. Once I finally stopped struggling and trying to be “normal” I was able to really achieve some peace and connect with God again. It is ONLY because I was able to connect to God again that I have been able to live my life within the teachings of the Church. Without God, that would be impossible. I have been fortunate to have excellent Pastors and Confessors who have helped me to deal with my sexuality and conform to the teachings of the church.

 

[Newbie2]

Since I’ve never met a person who “decided ot be gay” I have concluded as most psychologists and most of medicine has that it is genetic. It is therefore something that one is born to. Thus God did that. So I deny any “disordered” aspect to it. It is simply horrible to classify people in this matter over something they have no control over with. I think every person should be proud of who and what they are. Race, sex, and sexual orientation, are things we are born with, so they can hardly be disordered. It is very unhelpful to lay such a burden on people that they are somehow disordered because they are gay. It would be no different that calling someone who is bipolar as being “disordered.” It attaches some sort of negative connotation to a state that one cannot change, albeit some can deny their orientation or struggle to be celibate. I find it difficult to reconcile why God would attach such a limitation on someone by definition, but perhaps it falls along the lines of God allowing for down’s syndrome, as some no doubt do.

Alrighty…first off, the orientation is considered disordered, not the people. It’s like an alcoholic is predisposed to ruin him or herself, both physically and mentally, if given the opportunity to abuse alcohol. The addiction to alcohol is a disorder, and it’s most likely in many people an inborn tendency. Pretty much the same thing with homosexual tendencies, although whether or not it’s inborn isn’t as clear-cut as you might believe.

Your analogy of race (possibly being disordered) is completely devoid of any sense, as is the comparison to bipolar disorder. Using your logic, if people affected with bipolar disorder go out and have a “bad day”, it’s not their fault if they are completely contrary people to get along with…and by comparison the homosexually oriented person cannot help hooking up with another for a homosexual encounter.

As far as race goes, if I woke up and decided that I wanted to be a person of color, I couldn’t be one, and I could never be persuaded to become one (simple because it’s impossible!) On the other hand, a person could decide to become a practicing homosexual or be persuaded to become one. Far, far different thing from one’s race.

Difficult to reconcile, maybe…there you have a good point. Why does God make babies born into abject poverty? Why does he make babies with birth defects? Why does he make babies that have a tendency for addictions of all sorts?

I guess if we can answer those questions, we will have more insight as to how to address why he makes people who have SSA and homosexual tendencies.

 

[manualman]

You just do not understand friend. I have never felt more emotionally secure, mentally stable, and most importantly spiritually intune with God until I learned to give into the fact that I was homosexual. My relationship with God, myself, and my friends for once is something that feels real and true. Booze does not give an alcoholic that. And if you are going to compare the two think about this, what is the first thing that an alcoholic is suppose to do? Admit to being an alcoholic, then and only then can they start to reconcil there relationships with friends, family, and God.

I honestly can’t tell if I agree with you or not. If you are saying we need to change the way average catholics treat those with a deep seated homosexuality away from the past pattern of scorn, disgust and hatred, I agree entirely. I think the way catholics treat recovering alcoholics is a great model to build on. The shame and scorn towards recovering alcoholics is largely gone and has been replaced by respect for the struggle that such people have to live out every day. I’m all for that in regards to people who recognize and publicly admit to an SSA and who struggle to live a chaste life. I’m all for support groups that help people who struggle with ALL kinds of difficulties.

But there is a huge difference between taking pride in overcoming ones difficulties and taking pride in HAVING them. Not long ago there was a newspaper article about a deaf couple that had a deaf child. Medical technology had progressed to the point that young children with his condition could have a surgery that generally resulted in the restoration of a significant hearing. The parents refused to let their son have the operation out of ‘deaf pride.’ That’s just plain OFF!

Its not clear from your post whether your acceptance of your gay identity means you also live the lifestyle or not. Such ambiguity is most of why catholics have such a hard time walking the narrow line between supporting and loving those with a SSA and rejecting the behavior as something authentically loving and giving.

I have heard that some folks with SSA feel that even the inclination is a GOOD thing and not a problem. How can a inclination and desire to do something that is never morally permissible be considered something in itself to ‘celebrate?’

This is such a charged issue that its hard to have a substantive discussion without rancor. I do appreciate hearing your experience and hope my questions don’t come off as abusive. I think there are very few calm discussions out there on the issue. Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut!

 

[Neil_Anthony]

A disorder is nothing to be proud of.
Also pride is one of the seven deadly sins.

How about “self-esteem and penance for those battling same-sex attraction”… that’s similar but sounds more Catholic.

 

[bilop]

Thanks so much, I really do appreciate it and I will be praying for you as well. The hard thing about this is the problem I have of feeling like an island. I don’t belong in the “straight” community because I will never marry or have children, and I don’t belong in the “gay” community because I refuse to commit the sin and live the lifestyle. I have sympathy for the harassment and cruelty directed at many homosexuals, because I understand their feelings. I also understand how easy it would be to give in. Lord knows, I’ve had my moments.

I came to this site primarily because I hoped that I would find others like me here.

I also want to commend you on your faithfulness. You have a hard cross to bear, and your rewards will be great.

God Bless

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Since I’ve never met a person who “decided ot be gay” I have concluded as most psychologists and most of medicine has that it is genetic. It is therefore something that one is born to. Thus God did that. So I deny any “disordered” aspect to it. It is simply horrible to classify people in this matter over something they have no control over with. I think every person should be proud of who and what they are.

Gay people can get married to a member of the opposite sex and have kids just like anyone else. We’re all called to fight against sinful natures that we have. If some heterosexual sailors and ancient greeks and prisoners have figured out how to commit gay acts, I’m sure that ssa people can figure out how to parent a child if they choose to.

 

[manualman]

Gay people can get married to a member of the opposite sex and have kids just like anyone else. We’re all called to fight against sinful natures that we have. If heterosexual sailors and ancient greeks and prisoners can figure out how to commit gay acts, I’m sure that ssa people can figure out how to parent a child if they choose to.

Why would they choose to? Marriage is not a moral imperative! IMO, it is TERRIBLE advice to tell somebody not attracted to women to just FAKE IT and get married in order not to stand out.

Why do you think this is necessary? Got any references that say all should marry?

By all means, encourage people to talk through the issue with someone from NARTH, but don’t set him up with the pressured expectation that a magic switch will be flipped and the issue will vanish! God knows I sure haven’t licked all MY sinful, disordered tendencies yet…

 

[m134e5]

“Gay Pride”, according to the Webster’s New Millennium™ Dictionary of English, is “a sense of dignity and satisfaction involved in the public admission of one’s homosexuality.”

The Catholic church merely condemns homosexual activity (and, also, any sexual activity outside the context of marriage), and says, to my knowledge, nothing of the morality of either “coming out” or having pride in one’s sexual orientation.

Therefore, I wonder about the position of people on this board on the subject of “gay pride”, as the Webster’s Dictionary defines it. Any thoughts?

What’s to be proud about that? Things that are none of any body else’s business are cute when it’s a little kid losing a tooth or something, but once a person becomes an adult…not so much.

Although homosexuality isn’t a sin in itself, it is still gravely disordered and it should not be glorified. There are many other sins besides the sexual sins that the gay community glorifies. The gay community encourages selfishness, vanity, narcissism, and revenge. These are as big of problems as any in society today.

 

[m134e5]

Gay people can get married to a member of the opposite sex and have kids just like anyone else. We’re all called to fight against sinful natures that we have. If some heterosexual sailors and ancient greeks and prisoners have figured out how to commit gay acts, I’m sure that ssa people can figure out how to parent a child if they choose to.

Homosexuality isn’t the sort of thing you can run from. Getting married to a member of the opposite sex without actually dealing with the problem will only cause more heartache later on. That’s not to say that none of those men are called to marrige- only that they need to work out their issues first (and they need to be open with their potential spouse about it).

 

[Fitswimmer]

Gay people can get married to a member of the opposite sex and have kids just like anyone else. We’re all called to fight against sinful natures that we have. If some heterosexual sailors and ancient greeks and prisoners have figured out how to commit gay acts, I’m sure that ssa people can figure out how to parent a child if they choose to.

Just put yourself in our shoes for a minute and imagine yourself in a upside down universe where being hetero was the disorder. Could you really enter into a relationship with a person of the same sex? Of couse, you couldn’t-at the very least, it would be unfair and dishonest to your partner.

Most of us who struggle with SSA have tried to go the “normal” route and found it impossible. To compare it to the kind of animalistic sexual behavior that goes on in prisons demonstrates just how wrong it would be. To bring a child into that kind of relationship would be so unfair to them. Children should have two emotionally healthy parents, and a relationship like that is not emotionally healthy.

 

[Donna_P]

“Gay Pride”, according to the Webster’s New Millennium™ Dictionary of English, is “a sense of dignity and satisfaction involved in the public admission of one’s homosexuality.”

The Catholic church merely condemns homosexual activity (and, also, any sexual activity outside the context of marriage), and says, to my knowledge, nothing of the morality of either “coming out” or having pride in one’s sexual orientation.

Therefore, I wonder about the position of people on this board on the subject of “gay pride”, as the Webster’s Dictionary defines it. Any thoughts?

Dear Exalt,

May God be with you.

“Gay Pride” according to webster’s definition would be akin to a rapist coming out and saying they were proud to be a rapist or a pedophile saying they were proud they liked to “do it” with children.

Gay Pride is incompatible with Catholicism because it is taking pride in a sinful lifestyle.

God bless you.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Homosexuality isn’t the sort of thing you can run from. Getting married to a member of the opposite sex without actually dealing with the problem will only cause more heartache later on. That’s not to say that none of those men are called to marrige- only that they need to work out their issues first (and they need to be open with their potential spouse about it).

Thank you for rounding out what I said with a more balanced statement.

 

[East_and_West]

Thanks so much, I really do appreciate it and I will be praying for you as well. The hard thing about this is the problem I have of feeling like an island. I don’t belong in the “straight” community because I will never marry or have children,

I know exactly how you feel. I am in my twenties and I am watching all of my friends marry and begin families. Becuase of their family situations, they tend to hang out with other married couples more and don’t have time like they used to. Since I struggle with SSA, I will never quite fit into their world.

and I don’t belong in the “gay” community because I refuse to commit the sin and live the lifestyle.

Of course. The “gay” community is an extremely messed up place.

I have sympathy for the harassment and cruelty directed at many homosexuals, because I understand their feelings. I also understand how easy it would be to give in. Lord knows, I’ve had my moments.

We all have. I will keep you in my prayers.

I came to this site primarily because I hoped that I would find others like me here.

Well, you have. I am here and I will be praying for you.