Is Gay Pride compatible with Catholicism?

[jean8]

I disagree with the definition. The term is used by those who live that lifestyle openly, and usually in an in-your-face manner.

Gay and pride doesn’t compute.
Sodomy is a sin. Repent! End of story.
God destroyed an entire city because of this perversoin. See Gen.
18-19 for the story.
Under the New Covenant, see Rom.1:24-27 thus saith the Lord God Almighty.

God bless,
jean8

 

[East_and_West]

Good way to mischaracterize everything she was saying.

I think the lack of support of gay Catholics is part of a larger issue, namely, a prejudice towards homosexuality.

Prejudice towards a sinful lifestyle that is contrary to the natural law. The Church should prejudiced against that.

It has served as a scapegoat for the priest sex abuse scandal, in which Ratzinger’s only real work so far has been banning gay, celibate Catholics from joining the priesthood.

Most of the abusers were homosexuals and it is well known that there is a much higher percentange of pedophiles and pederasts amongs the homosexual community. Once you throw out traditional sexual norms, things just fall apart. That being said, the Church only banned those actively invovled in the homosexual life style or in gay culture. The Church does not want her pastors supporting that which is both sinful and unhealthy. We want the the most psychologically healthy priests possible.

Documents like “on the pastoral care of homosexuals” are uninformed and in many places demeaning.

How is it demeaning? How is it unimformed? I think you are the one who is uniformed if you continue to promote this riduculous pro-homosexuality platform. We all know its not the same as heterosexuality and for society to say that it is, is pure childishness. Its playing “let’s pretend”.

As you said, Courage is a terrible organization and resources for gay Catholics are minimal.

She didn’t say that it was a terrible organization. She said it was not readily available. That’s completely different. You simply don’t like it because you think that all who suffer with SSA should be trapped in that dangerous and unhealthy life style.

Why? I think it’s prejudice. They don’t like homosexuality and they would rather just not think about it or address it. That’s why there is no support for gay Catholics. That’s why there are so few documents addressing this issue. They ignore gay Catholics because they’d rather just not think about homosexuality.

Of course they don’t like homosexuality. The Church doesn’t like Obsessive Compulsive disorder or depression either. They are disorders that harm us and the Church definitely does not anyone to be harmed. But, the Church addresses homosexuality all th time. Its just the only issue the Church has to address. The universe does not revovle around the issue of homosexuality.

They’ve pretty much just left you out to the wolves, in my opinion.

Her pastor is there, as is mine, to help us deal with these issues.

By the way, I completely respect the choice of celibacy. That’s fine if that’s what you believe. I have no right to tell you what your sexual choices should be. But I think I do have the right to be critical of the Church’s response to their own members who happen to be gay. It’s hard enough trying to live a commitment to celibacy, and it’s made even harder by a Church that ignores you.

But it ridiculous to assume that the Church ignores you. Homosexuals are no more special than the rest of the members of the Church and they have the same access to the sacraments and to pastoral care as does anyone else. In fact, the fact that there is Courage organization at all demonstrates that the Church is willing to provide extra help to homosexuals.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Good way to mischaracterize everything she was saying.

Prejudice towards a sinful lifestyle that is contrary to the natural law. The Church should prejudiced against that.

Most of the abusers were homosexuals and it is well known that there is a much higher percentange of pedophiles and pederasts amongs the homosexual community. Once you throw out traditional sexual norms, things just fall apart. That being said, the Church only banned those actively invovled in the homosexual life style or in gay culture. The Church does not want her pastors supporting that which is both sinful and unhealthy. We want the the most psychologically healthy priests possible.

How is it demeaning? How is it unimformed? I think you are the one who is uniformed if you continue to promote this riduculous pro-homosexuality platform. We all know its not the same as heterosexuality and for society to say that it is, is pure childishness. Its playing “let’s pretend”.

She didn’t say that it was a terrible organization. She said it was not readily available. That’s completely different. You simply don’t like it because you think that all who suffer with SSA should be trapped in that dangerous and unhealthy life style.

Of course they don’t like homosexuality. The Church doesn’t like Obsessive Compulsive disorder or depression either. They are disorders that harm us and the Church definitely does not anyone to be harmed. But, the Church addresses homosexuality all th time. Its just the only issue the Church has to address. The universe does not revovle around the issue of homosexuality.

Her pastor is there, as is mine, to help us deal with these issues.

But it ridiculous to assume that the Church ignores you. Homosexuals are no more special than the rest of the members of the Church and they have the same access to the sacraments and to pastoral care as does anyone else. In fact, the fact that there is Courage organization at all demonstrates that the Church is willing to provide extra help to homosexuals.

the Church DOES ignore us. There are many active Catholic support organizations for all kinds of people-but not for the homosexual Catholic that wishes to remain faithful to Church teaching. Courage is NOT supported by many dioceses across the country. I’m in NW NJ, with the proximity to NYC you’d think I’d have been able to find an active group-wouldn’t you? Celibate priests and religious have the others in their order to support them. What do celibate gays and lesbians have??
I’m not surprised that there are so many homosexual Catholics who have returned to the lifestyle. I don’t agree with it, but I understand how many feel the Church wants to tell them how to live but not support them or help them keep that command. I’ve been fortunate to have wonderful confessors who have helped to support me, but many are not so lucky. I know that many gay Catholics have been told BY PRIESTS that they should not feel the need to be alone and to find partners!!!

 

[Exalt]

Good way to mischaracterize everything she was saying.

Prejudice towards a sinful lifestyle that is contrary to the natural law. The Church should prejudiced against that.

Most of the abusers were homosexuals and it is well known that there is a much higher percentange of pedophiles and pederasts amongs the homosexual community. Once you throw out traditional sexual norms, things just fall apart. That being said, the Church only banned those actively invovled in the homosexual life style or in gay culture. The Church does not want her pastors supporting that which is both sinful and unhealthy. We want the the most psychologically healthy priests possible.

How is it demeaning? How is it unimformed? I think you are the one who is uniformed if you continue to promote this riduculous pro-homosexuality platform. We all know its not the same as heterosexuality and for society to say that it is, is pure childishness. Its playing “let’s pretend”.

She didn’t say that it was a terrible organization. She said it was not readily available. That’s completely different. You simply don’t like it because you think that all who suffer with SSA should be trapped in that dangerous and unhealthy life style.

Of course they don’t like homosexuality. The Church doesn’t like Obsessive Compulsive disorder or depression either. They are disorders that harm us and the Church definitely does not anyone to be harmed. But, the Church addresses homosexuality all th time. Its just the only issue the Church has to address. The universe does not revovle around the issue of homosexuality.

Her pastor is there, as is mine, to help us deal with these issues.

But it ridiculous to assume that the Church ignores you. Homosexuals are no more special than the rest of the members of the Church and they have the same access to the sacraments and to pastoral care as does anyone else. In fact, the fact that there is Courage organization at all demonstrates that the Church is willing to provide extra help to homosexuals.

Pastors are overworked. Gay catholics need more. It’s not like they’re struggling with masturbation. It’s not like they have a problem taking the lord’s name in vain. They struggle with something that reaches into many aspects of their life. They can’t get married, they can’t enter into any relationships beyond friendship, and they can’t become priests (btw, the Church *does *ban *all *men who have had *any *homosexual inclinations within the past three years from entering seminary; source). Now, of course, that isn’t all there is to life. I understand that. But it’s a huge burden to bear, and there are very few resources out there for the celibate catholic.

As I said, I have no problem with a gay person who choses to be celibate. I have no right to tell them how they should behave sexually. But that being said, it’s not an easy load to bear and the Church (in most parishes across the world) offers no special support for them and treats it like it does any sin. But the fact is that it’s *not *just like masturbation or depression, and if the Church wants to support them, they need to step up to the plate, and they haven’t done so.

It’s not right.

 

[East_and_West]

the Church DOES ignore us. There are many active Catholic support organizations for all kinds of people-but not for the homosexual Catholic that wishes to remain faithful to Church teaching. Courage is NOT supported by many dioceses across the country. I’m in NW NJ, with the proximity to NYC you’d think I’d have been able to find an active group-wouldn’t you? Celibate priests and religious have the others in their order to support them. What do celibate gays and lesbians have??
I’m not surprised that there are so many homosexual Catholics who have returned to the lifestyle. I don’t agree with it, but I understand how many feel the Church wants to tell them how to live but not support them or help them keep that command. I’ve been fortunate to have wonderful confessors who have helped to support me, but many are not so lucky. I know that many gay Catholics have been told BY PRIESTS that they should not feel the need to be alone and to find partners!!!

Goodness gracious. They do not ignore us. All the priests that I have confessed this sin to have been extremely supportive. I don’t expect special help just because I have this disorder. It is my responsibility to refrain from sin. The Church doesn’t have to do it for me. MY RESPONSIBILITY!!!

 

[manualman]

Exalt,

Believe it or not, I partially agree with you. Every member of the church is a mere human and subject to the fallenness of human nature. It IS a shameful truth that today we have seen a polarizing of our culture (including we in the church) into mostly two groups:

1. Homosexuality is inborn, natural and acceptable.
2. Homosexuality is a perversion and everybody associated with it is to be avoided (head in sand approach).

Typical human response to all sorts of controversy. As usual, such polarization makes it VERY difficult to successfully live according a a THIRD and mostly overlooked option:
3. Homosexuals are human beings like the rest of us that happen to have certain disordered inclinations that many of the rest of us don’t have to combat.

Approach #3 does NOT have to turn out like #2. We certainly don’t treat recovering alcoholics that way. We don’t treat deaf people that way. We don’t treat those suffering depression that way. We don’t treat those hooked on porn that way. And we sure don’t treat those who give in to the temptations of contraception that way. It is just very difficult to be BOTH clear on the teaching and careful to respect human dignity in the implementation because of the polarized culture we live in.

I’m curious what you felt was THE most insensitive statement made by the hierarchy. Was it the direction that seminary applicants must be free of ‘deep seated’ SSA for three years first? Is the offense the idea that those with a fixed SSA cannot become priests or the suggestion that an SSA can be transitory? I’m curious because I have a close relative who thought he was gay in college and was active in the lifestyle. He tells me that in HIS case, it was the outcome of childhood trauma, an emotionally distant father, social stigma from his lack of sports interest and positive artistic interest. The straw that pushed him over the edge into the lifestyle was alcohol and drug abuse in college. After a conversion experience at a Newman Center and a few years of healing, he felt changed, eventually dated and has now been married for 15 years. Pretty darn happily too.

I don’t claim he is Exhibit A for all gay men, but he surely defies the stereotype of the gay pride movement that all SSA is genetic, inborn and immutable. I think he is the kind of guy the Vatican had in mind when they spoke of tranistory SSA versus deep-seated SSA. The prohibition on ordinantion of those with a deep-seated SSA is not a mark of damnation or rejection of the person. No one is entitled to Holy Orders and the vocation to priesthood is NOT necessarily the highest calling made to humanity. There are a LOT of other characteristics that seem to disqualify men from priesthood. Just ask any of the former seminarians around here.

I appreciate your perspective as my suburban life since college rather limits my interaction with gay folks these days. Thanks.

 

[Exalt]

I’m curious what you felt was THE most insensitive statement made by the hierarchy.

It was the section on violence against gay people:10. It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the Church’s pastors wherever it occurs. It reveals a kind of disregard for others which endangers the most fundamental principles of a healthy society. The intrinsic dignity of each person must always be respected in word, in action and in law.

But the proper reaction to crimes committed against homosexual persons should not be to claim that the homosexual condition is not disordered. **When such a claim is made and when homosexual activity is consequently condoned, or when civil legislation is introduced to protect behavior to which no one has any conceivable right, neither the Church nor society at large should be surprised when other distorted notions and practices gain ground, and irrational and violent reactions increase. **(Source)
That is the definition of blaming the victim. You won’t find another statement like this made by the Vatican in modern history.

Was it the direction that seminary applicants must be free of ‘deep seated’ SSA for three years first?

Well… “Different, however, would be the case in which one were dealing with homosexual tendencies that were only the expression of a transitory problem - for example, that of an adolescence not yet superseded. Nevertheless, such tendencies must be clearly overcome at least three years before ordination to the diaconate.” (Source)

You are right that the explicit instructions say that candidates who present “deep seated homosexual tendencies” should be turned away from seminary, but as I pointed out, even those who have had transitory deep seated tendencies must be free from those tendencies for at least three years before entering the* diaconate phase *of their journey to the priesthood.

Is the offense the idea that those with a fixed SSA cannot become priests…?

It’s not *just *that the Church said that celibate gay Catholics can no longer become priests, it’s that this is Benedict’s *only *solution to the priest abuse scandal. Nevermind the many bishops who obviously failed as leaders by bouncing these ‘men’ from parish to parish who are still in positions of leadership; nevermind that some of these ‘men’ are on pension from the Church (i.e., O’Grady, as described in the Deliver Us from Evil documentary); and nevermind the lack of response to majority of the victims of abuse who want answers.

Benedict’s big solution wasn’t a massive campaign to reach out to parishes and particular victims of abuse. It wasn’t a plan to rigorously investigate these bishops and, at the very least, remove them from their episcopate. It was to bar gay celibate Catholics from becoming priests.

*That *was my problem. That’s scapegoating. To many people, including many priests and religious scholars I’ve talked to (I’m a Religious Studies B.A. graduate in 2 weeks, by the way), they believe it’s a distraction from the real issues, which haven’t been dealt with adequately.

or the suggestion that an SSA can be transitory?

Oh, it absolutely can be transitory. I have a number of friends who have experienced homosexual inclinations in their adolescence and early college years but have since had primarily heterosexual inclinations.

However, that said, I think that for many people who call themselves “gay”, it’s something that really can’t be changed. Those who had transitory homosexual inclinations generally had those inclinations changed not through therapy or through any kind of desired change; it just happened.

I appreciate your perspective as my suburban life since college rather limits my interaction with gay folks these days. Thanks.

Regarding your close relative, I think that many people go through the same thing. But as I said, it’s a transitory thing and many people simply change without any effort.

I’m glad you emphasized it was “HIS” experience. Indeed, I know countless gay people who don’t have those supposed “causes” (i.e., distant father, overbearing mother, etc). That includes me!

 

[Fitswimmer]

Goodness gracious. They do not ignore us. All the priests that I have confessed this sin to have been extremely supportive. I don’t expect special help just because I have this disorder. It is my responsibility to refrain from sin. The Church doesn’t have to do it for me. MY RESPONSIBILITY!!!

I don’t expect “special” help either. I would however like the same compassionate help that women who have chosen abortion receive or that divorced catholics receive. These are also sinful behaviors, but there is active outreach by the church to help these people. There are support groups so that those who suffer can pray together and strengthen each other.
I too, have had wonderful confessors-and I also know that it is my job to stay free from sin. However, as we cannot marry, and some are concerned even about deep friendships, it can be a lonely life. I believe that positive support groups would help many SSA individuals and I do not understand why Courage has failed so miserably at that job.

 

[East_and_West]

I don’t expect “special” help either. I would however like the same compassionate help that women who have chosen abortion receive or that divorced catholics receive. These are also sinful behaviors, but there is active outreach by the church to help these people. There are support groups so that those who suffer can pray together and strengthen each other.
I too, have had wonderful confessors-and I also know that it is my job to stay free from sin. However, as we cannot marry, and some are concerned even about deep friendships, it can be a lonely life. I believe that positive support groups would help many SSA individuals and I do not understand why Courage has failed so miserably at that job.

It appears that Courage has been successful everywhere that it is available. And yes, it is a lonely life. I know this first hand. But we all have crosses to bear, many without support groups. Such is life.

 

[manualman]

Thanks Exalt, I can see where you would perceive this in the way that you do. It is worth repeating a portion:

" But the proper reaction to crimes committed against homosexual persons should not be to claim that the homosexual condition is not disordered. **When such a claim is made and when homosexual activity is consequently condoned, or when civil legislation is introduced to protect behavior to which no one has any conceivable right, neither the Church nor society at large should be surprised when other distorted notions and practices gain ground, and irrational and violent reactions increase. **(Source)"

Like I said, I can sympathize with your reaction and it is written somewhat ham-handedly. But I don’t think the intent you perceive is there. What I see boils down to

“Beware, sin begets sin. When you normalize sinful behavior, don’t be surprised when other sin results. Maybe even sins YOU believe to be morally wrong.”

In catholic teaching the DEFINITION of sin is an action that damages ones ability to give and receive love. While you have been clear that you do not believe homosexual sex does such a thing, catholicism clearly doesn’t agree with you. Given our definition of sin, the statement is less an attempt to scapegoat than to warn that sin has consequences. (e.g. A cultural consensus that gravity is unjust and illegal would have no effect on the results of me stepping off a cliff!)

I’m not sure you are aware of the mandatory sexual abuse prevention programs that have been implemented in response to the abuse situation. In forums like this, much gay scapegoating has been used to divert blame for the abuse crisis. In the real world, the USCCB has gone to great lengths to avoid even the appearance of scapegoating. I’ve been through the Virtus and can affirm that it also takes great care to subtly defuse potential gay scapegoating.

It is true that no bishops have been sacked over the crisis. Why? Bishops don’t have a boss (on earth anyways). The Pope is not the CEO of catholicism. He can remove a bishop for heresy. He can remove a bishop for personal crimes. But he generally can’t remove a bishop for being a lousy bishop and for abdicating his responsibilities as a bishop. As you may know, no standing bishops have been convicted or even charged with a crime. What happened to Cardinal Law is not what the press would have you believe. Don’t believe for a second that was a promotion. He’s been delegated to an invisible post where he has little to do but ponder what happened while he was supposed to be on watch. I can’t think of much worse punishment for a man with any sort of conscience.

 

[Exalt]

Like I said, I can sympathize with your reaction and it is written somewhat ham-handedly. But I don’t think the intent you perceive is there. What I see boils down to

“Beware, sin begets sin. When you normalize sinful behavior, don’t be surprised when other sin results. Maybe even sins YOU believe to be morally wrong.”

sigh

That’s fine when it’s something like “masturbation might lead to use of pornography.” But it’s *not *okay when you’re talking about the murder, beatings, and other terrible crimes of violence. That section should have just condemnation of violence against homosexuals, period. As I said, you will not find any other vatican document that says something similar.

I’ve been through the Virtus and can affirm that it also takes great care to subtly defuse potential gay scapegoating.

Thanks for the information.

 

[Fitswimmer]

It appears that Courage has been successful everywhere that it is available. And yes, it is a lonely life. I know this first hand. But we all have crosses to bear, many without support groups. Such is life.

So it’s wrong to ask for the same kind of help other groups receive? I really believe that more people who are struggling with SSA would stay within the guidelines of the Church if the same level of effort placed to help us as there is for others struggling with sin. Part of the problem is that in most parishes, there may only be one or two people struggling with SSA. If Courage is to work, it has to be on a diocesan level, and if your Bishop isn’t interested or doesn’t have the resources-there’s not going to be anything available for you.

I don’t believe that people with SSA are any less worthy of the Church’s interest than any other Catholic.

 

[manualman]

sigh

As I said, you will not find any other vatican document that says something similar.

Read Humanae Vitae. I don’t have mine exactly handy at the moment, but I’m fairly sure it promises that if contraception becomes widely accepted and practiced (it was written in the 1960s), that society will see a vast increase in promiscuity, infidelity and divorce. You may be right that the presentation is different in that the document itself isn’t a focus on divorce and the statement made as a kick to those suffering through a divorce who had practiced contraception. But the link is certainly made (and incidentally was right on the spot) and an encyclical surely qualifies as a Vatican document.

It is a legitimate, and in fact crucial function of the Vatican to not only tell us that certain things are wrong, but to tell us WHY they are wrong. Part of that is discerning the future outcome of sinful social movements.

All that said, I can certainly see how the way they put it might be a little to easy for hate-mongers to use as an excuse to latch onto. Tact is not an infallibly protected charism!

 

[Exalt]

Read Humanae Vitae. I don’t have mine exactly handy at the moment, but I’m fairly sure it promises that if contraception becomes widely accepted and practiced (it was written in the 1960s), that society will see a vast increase in promiscuity, infidelity and divorce.

I’ve read it. That’s very different than this, obviously, because here the issue is murder, beatings, lynchings, and other acts of violence by vermin with a prejudice towards gay people. Victims of violence deserve every ounce of our sympathy, and those that do them harm deserve our unqualified condemnation. It is *not appropriate *to say that ‘it’s not surprising that when homosexuality becomes condoned that some react to it with malicious violence.’

That’s sort of like Jesus walking up to the adultress who was about to be stoned and saying “Well guys, don’t stone her, but by the way, I’m really not *surprised *that you wanted to stone her. After all, she *is *a prostitute…”

I honestly don’t see how you’re defending this. It goes against the essence of Christian teaching.

(For those of you who are just beginning to read this particular train of thought, it begins here)

 

[BlaineTog]

Victims of violence deserve every ounce of our sympathy, and those that do them harm deserve our unqualified condemnation.

Whether they deserve it or not is immaterial. Hate the sin, love the sinner, always.

But other than that, I agree.

 

[manualman]

I’ve read it. That’s very different than this, obviously, because here the issue is murder, beatings, lynchings, and other acts of violence by vermin with a prejudice towards gay people. Victims of violence deserve every ounce of our sympathy, and those that do them harm deserve our unqualified condemnation. It is *not appropriate *to say that ‘it’s not surprising that when homosexuality becomes condoned that some react to it with malicious violence.’

That’s sort of like Jesus walking up to the adultress who was about to be stoned and saying “Well guys, don’t stone her, but by the way, I’m really not *surprised *that you wanted to stone her. After all, she *is *a prostitute…”

I honestly don’t see how you’re defending this. It goes against the essence of Christian teaching.

I’m not defending the presentation. I’m defending the people who wrote it and suggesting that while YOU have an excellent point that their presentation is insensitive, your conclusion that it arises from personal antipathy is not well founded.

When Jesus addressed the adultress, she knew what she was doing and had done was wrong. He didn’t NEED to admonish her. If and when the prostitution legalization/normalization movement gains major traction in the bulk of the USA, watch and see if the catholic bishops don’t make a similar warning about the activity of prostitution resulting in an increase in violence twoards women.

No analogy is perfect, I grant you. I make no excuse for the wording that seems to grant the perpetrators of violence some rationalization to fall back on. But there is a nugget of truth that had to be said. Sin begets sin.

I doubt we’ll agree fully, but it’s been a good conversation. Thanks.

 

[Exalt]

I’m not defending the presentation. I’m defending the people who wrote it and suggesting that while YOU have an excellent point that their presentation is insensitive, your conclusion that it arises from personal antipathy is not well founded.

I doubt we’ll agree fully, but it’s been a good conversation. Thanks.

Indeed =)

 

[KES]

Hi everyone, I have not been on this website in a long while, but after a disturbing email I just recieved through this “catholic” website, I had to speak my mind, and from my heart to address this issue. There is much that catholics, and other christians obviously, do not understand and do not try to understand about homosexuality and homosexuals as individuals.

First off I agree with the quote from above in some sense, because yes there are different types of activists out there. There are people with all sorts of motives behind their LGBTQ activism, but in the most part it is simply a group of people who are comfortable with the way they are and truly believe that they should be accepted as equals. Gay rights activists are not trying to tear down the fabric of this country, if anything they are fighting with the same vigor that the founding fathers did. To say that gay people are “infiltrating” society is ridiculous, they are just trying to share with you and the heterosexists society that things are not black and white, to try and show you life from a perspective that you will NEVER understand unless you truly try to. They are not trying to infiltrate, they are trying to educate, and even if you do not aggree, you should at least understand the motives behind them, they see it as something to respect.

Almost any major scientific study, psychologist, and catholic priest will tell you that homosexuality is not a sin. Being homosexual is very much something that is out of ones own control, and to try and change that is only to cause further mental and spiritual decline. Its time to start respecting life and the beauty of diversity in which that life comes. I don’t know why people are created gay, lesbian, or transgender, but thats the way it is, thats the way God created it, not only in mankind but in a vast array of species.

The “pride” comes about when after hearing all your life about how this one thing is keeping you from God, is keeping you from heaven, is keeping you from being normal… the effects from this is what cause the backlash. After fighting off the temptations for years, trying to be normal, you come to realize that you are normal after all. People find out that they arent evil, and that it is not them that is wrong, but the greater Christian society. And just like Christians that learn about God on Sunday and want to spread what they have learned, so too do these members of the LGBT community want to share what they have learned through life.

If you believed that homosexuality is something that you were born with, like having green eyes or freckles, should you try to change it. With all my soul I know that homosexuality is something like hair color, or eye color, something that is natural. Now that doesnt necessarily mean that it is okay to act on, but it does mean that it should be something you respect; you should respect the way that God created the world; and to think that you should try and change something that is the way God created it, is to have the pride of adam and eve. But to see the beauty in yourself, and others around you is a pride in God, a pride in being made in the image of God.

I love God! I love the fact that I’m gay! And now with God’s help I’m reunited with God’s Church, that I thought had rejected me. Coming Out is one of the best things I have started to do for myself. I used to consider myself a Catholic… then I learned through prayer and love that God’s plan is greater than what men can know, and that me being gay was okay. So I stopped going to mass, but didnt stop praying. But something was lost in my life, I turned away from God’s Church because of a disagreement about one issue. I gained a great feeling of self-acceptance, but only to loose my deep devotion with my Catholic community and family (all of you). But now with the acceptance of my best friend, my older brother, who is becoming a Franciscan, and most importantly with the Holy Spirit giving me courage and strength, I’m back with the Church! This time I will tell anyone who wants to know that I am gay, and a Catholic! They will have to excommunicate me before I leave my father’s house.

I hope and pray that the Holy Spirit gives you the wisdom and understanding to at least try and see it from the perspective of a LGBT person. God Bless. I love you all!

Thank you.

 

[beyesteadfast]

So it’s wrong to ask for the same kind of help other groups receive? I really believe that more people who are struggling with SSA would stay within the guidelines of the Church if the same level of effort placed to help us as there is for others struggling with sin. Part of the problem is that in most parishes, there may only be one or two people struggling with SSA. If Courage is to work, it has to be on a diocesan level, and if your Bishop isn’t interested or doesn’t have the resources-there’s not going to be anything available for you.

I don’t believe that people with SSA are any less worthy of the Church’s interest than any other Catholic.

Hey there. I mostly quoted this just to draw your attention to it. I want to reply to some things you said in particular, and also voice some of my experience and views. First of all: God Bless you. It’s way too easy to say I know, all of us can say “Godbless! we’ll pray for you!” and then just move on our way but seriously, I want God to bless you immensely. I am so tired. I have been having a discussion about homosexuality with a friend of mine, and am so not good with conflict. They support homosexual activity, and I am just trying to stay true to the Church’s teachings, but I can’t seem to say anything without it appearing extremely offensive. For that I want to say I’m sorry, to the whole community of people who have SSA. My words haven’t always been compassionate. not overtly mean (well, atleast, not at all with that intent) but I simply failed to speak about SSA as applying to humans, but took it at a philosophical, or theoretical level. I have failed you in that manner, and agree that the Church has failed in areas.

I’m just starting a new paragraph because I know its difficult to keep reading if everything is in one paragraph. I also must confess to some amount of homophobia. that may not be the right term, although my friend would insist it was. The fact is defending my faith is something that terrifies me. I shake, I fumble with words, and want to just curl up in a ball (I’m overexagerating a bit, but there have been times, where I’ve been close). and I just “know” that if I got talking with a person with SSA long enough, they would learn I don’t support the lifestyle, then I’d be forced to explain why, and be labled a bigot, and would hurt their feelings. I HATE HURTING PEOPLE. so this has made me somewhat phobic of addressing the subject, and so homosexuals along with it. This is horrible, because one of my arguments against acting out on SSA is that a sexual orientation isnt all that a person is. but obviously on a sort of knee jerk subconsious level, I only see the SSA and immediately avoid the person. I am so sorry, this reaction is unwarrented, and you ARE NOT deserving of it.

On the subject of “coming out” and the likes, I think it is important to realize and accept that you have those attractions. pretending you don’t wouldn’t help. like all feelings, I would say that SSA is neither good nor bad. you don’t control it, it just happens. Whether you act on it ofcourse is another matter. I just think that shame is destructive, and in the past, and now, a lot of shame has been dumped on people with SSA. Recognising actions and entertaining inappropriate thoughts as immoral is a good thing, theres an understanding there, but shame is like a heavy cloud. for many of my own sins, I have felt very shameful, and it didn’t lead to prayer or confession, but wallowing in self pity. If you’ve done something wrong theres guilt, a conviction that you have indeed done something wrong, and thats good. but I feel, for my own definition, shame is a belief that you are not worth it, that you yourself are horrible. so that is my belief on SSA that no one should be ashamed that they have them, nor should someone shame them. they shouldn’t be acted on. but recognised and understood.

I hate how I’m part of the complain a lot do nothing generation. because that is going to be a lot like what I am about to say. I agree that the Church hasn’t done enough to give support. moreso, Catholics ourselves. You have an extreme cross to bear. I recognize that. I feel sometimes that God may be calling me to the priesthood, and the discernment process is something I struggle with, because I so do want a wife and family. but also I think about the thought of remaining chaste in that vocation, and it is difficult. I can’t say I understand your position really, but in small ways like that I can try to relate, and it must be hard. and so I think that we should all be Simon to each other. Everyone should be able to find fellowship to help them carry their cross. I wish I could help…Our God is a great God isn’t he? Now I’m sounding a little off, because I just randomly through that in there. I’ll have you know it’s 1 35 am where I am and I am very tired, so that might be contributing to the feeling, but I just felt like saying that. I love Jesus. Our Lord is beautiful. I’m feeling kind of peaceful at the moment. ok, thats enough of my God love moments, This might start turning into a blog soon, and that isn’t my point for writing, so I’ll hurry up and finish.

What could Catholics do to help the SSA population who wishes to live in accordance with the Church’s teachings, and all people with SSA? As I said, I’m deadly afraid of conflict, so I feel like starting something where I live would just be disastrous, but I suppose that shows the extent of my love, and why I am maybe not in a good position to say things like “true love is the giving up of one’s self for another”. I seem to only be able to die to my own wishes and comforts a marginal degree. and thats the problem. Pray for me. Please. Seriously. I want to grow in holiness, and help people who need it, and be a friend to all who need a friend, but I fail horribly sometimes. I will continue to pray for you.

 

[beyesteadfast]

CONTINUED
I officially forget my exact reason for writing this… I started mostly because as I said, I was tired. talking about the subject of SSA with someone who defends that acting out on them is emotionally draining for me. It just leaves me wiped completely. I’m going to assume, and forgive me for assuming things if I’m wrong, that it must also be a difficult emotional endeavour for those who have SSA. many times I just hope the subject won’t come up, and thats stupid, and doesnt help anyone. I just wanted to say thank you to those who try to live withing the church’s teachings that have SSA. I suppose I just wanted to tell you are loved and that I do love you. it sounds so empty a saying, if I am afraid to face the subject, and give some concrete support, how real is the love? But to the greatest extent my imperfect heart is able at the moment I do love you. I know it’s not much, but it’s all I can give at the moment. please pray that my heart may be transformed into the likeness of the Sacred Heart of our Lord. Thank you.

(P.S. I just read over what i wrote, and it still managed to seem preachy…I was really trying to convey my most heartful feelings, but apparently typed words really don’t do me justice. I’m sorry.)