Is Genesis 2: 15-17 an explanation of Original Sin?

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There are way too many interesting individual speculations about real Divine Revelations on this thread – I have no way of finding out what you specifically read. Would it be possible to point me to some posts which seem to be saying “obedience/disobedience is part of the fall story.” And why are they saying it and if it looks like someone is tampering with Divine Revelation?

I sincerely would like to read that bit of news. Thank you.
Posts 960 and 964 refer to obedience. I think they are saying it because obedience is part of the story.

When satan asks Eve did God say to not eat of the tree, she tells him they must not, so she is being obedient to God at that point. She disobeys when she gives into the temptation.
 
OneSheep won.

Faithful persons are turning away with the prospect of unfolding God’s revelation according to their tampering preferences especially when there are difficult questions flowing from the first three revealing chapters of Sacred Scripture.

OneSheep has already won. 😃
I made the comment about the true obedience story from your post here in 981:

*So far, it looks like the fearful would rather stay in the trenches and skip the true “story of disobedience.” Common Sense about the Catholic Church is not always common.
*

Unfortunately I made the mistake of saying obedience instead of disobedience.

Anyway I thought it would be a good title for another thread to discuss more on the story of creation.

That is all.

👍
 
Posts 960 and 964 refer to obedience. I think they are saying it because obedience is part of the story.
Yes, obedience is part of the story. And what are the rest of the parts? Where are the ignored parts of the story? For example. Why is True Divinity not part of the story?

My apology for asking questions which no one can answer. :o:o:o

I do understand how Catholics are being fooled by the allegory approach and the current sweet-sugar tamper approach which obviously is a direct hit on the Holy Spirit protocol for officially unfolding God’s divine revelation.

We are in the age of instant Google.

There is no need for us to bother our mind with thinking. Am I correct or not correct? Has anyone besides myself noticed that chapter and verse in the plural from the first three real chapters of Sacred Scripture is scarce in the Sacred Scripture Forum.

Yes, often there is a question about some verse, and occasionally a decent surface reply. Is that really what Catholics deserve? A direct hit on Catholic intelligence is both the original blessings approach and the “If you don’t like it, forget it approach.”
 
I made the comment about the true obedience story from your post here in 981:

So far, it looks like the fearful would rather stay in the trenches and skip the true “story of disobedience.” Common Sense about the Catholic Church is not always common.

Unfortunately I made the mistake of saying obedience instead of disobedience.

Anyway I thought it would be a good title for another thread to discuss more on the story of creation.

That is all.

👍
I agree. There is so much in the first three actual chapters of Genesis that we could easily slip into the next century.

On the other hand, what is the point when there are Catholics who prefer comfort over truth? Unfortunately, that position is gaining ground due to sweet talking mentors.

For example. In the past I have referred to Genesis 1: 25 as a key point in the first three amazing chapters. Recently, I again referred to Genesis 1: 25. Again, there is silence because there may be some strong Catholic teachings based on the difference between before and after Genesis 1: 25.
 
Wolves in sheep’s clothing do not wear shoes.
They worry that the sound of footsteps may wake up Catholics. 😉
 
I think anyone who frequently posts on these threads or perhaps just reads them, do indeed think a lot.

I haven’t quoted much scripture, apologies for that, it is a scripture thread after all.

Thanks all for the discussion though, does the mind good to keep pondering. (I hope)

🙂
 
In the past I have referred to Genesis 1: 25 as a key point in the first three amazing chapters. Recently, I again referred to Genesis 1: 25. Again, there is silence because there may be some strong Catholic teachings based on the difference between before and after Genesis 1: 25.
If you mean “key point” in the sense of a before-vs.-after difference, here is a Catholic commentary on the first verse to come after 1:25:

“Ver. 26. Let us make man to our image. This image of God in man, is not in the body, but in the soul; which is a spiritual substance, endued with understanding and free-will. God speaketh here in the plural number, to insinuate the plurality of persons in the Deity. (Challoner) — Some of the ancient Jews maintained that God here addressed his council, the Angels; but is it probable that he should communicate to them the title of Creator, and a perfect similitude with himself? (Calmet) — Man is possessed of many prerogatives above all other creatures of this visible world: his soul gives him a sort of equality with the Angels; and though his body be taken from the earth, like the brutes, yet even here the beautiful construction, the head erect and looking towards heaven, &c. makes St. Augustine observe, an air of majesty in the human body, which raises man above all terrestrial animals, and brings him in some measure near to the Divinity. As Jesus assumed our human nature, we may assert, that we bear a resemblance to God both in soul and body. Tertullian (de Resur. 5.) says, “Thus that slime, putting on already the image of Christ, who would come in the flesh, was not only the work of God, but also a pledge.” (Haydock) See St. Bernard on Psalm xcix. (Worthington)”

And here is a brief 3-page commentary on Genesis 1:1-2:3. Page 3 is most relevant (about Days 6 & 7).
 
I think anyone who frequently posts on these threads or perhaps just reads them, do indeed think a lot.

I haven’t quoted much scripture, apologies for that, it is a scripture thread after all.

Thanks all for the discussion though, does the mind good to keep pondering. (I hope)

🙂
Yes, obviously people who frequent this thread do think a lot. But, belonging to a dead generation, I observe that “thinking” does not necessarily lead to a proper solution. Often there is not an orderly progression from truth to truth.

A good example is bashing God because of Original Sin. This is followed by some good-hearted person who tampers with the Holy Spirit so that everyone can shake hands at the eucharist. Lower case “e” is intended because of some previous Catholic tampering.
 
If you mean “key point” in the sense of a before-vs.-after difference, here is a Catholic commentary on the first verse to come after 1:25:

“Ver. 26. Let us make man to our image. This image of God in man, is not in the body, but in the soul; which is a spiritual substance, endued with understanding and free-will. God speaketh here in the plural number, to insinuate the plurality of persons in the Deity. (Challoner) — Some of the ancient Jews maintained that God here addressed his council, the Angels; but is it probable that he should communicate to them the title of Creator, and a perfect similitude with himself? (Calmet) — Man is possessed of many prerogatives above all other creatures of this visible world: his soul gives him a sort of equality with the Angels; and though his body be taken from the earth, like the brutes, yet even here the beautiful construction, the head erect and looking towards heaven, &c. makes St. Augustine observe, an air of majesty in the human body, which raises man above all terrestrial animals, and brings him in some measure near to the Divinity. As Jesus assumed our human nature, we may assert, that we bear a resemblance to God both in soul and body. Tertullian (de Resur. 5.) says, “Thus that slime, putting on already the image of Christ, who would come in the flesh, was not only the work of God, but also a pledge.” (Haydock) See St. Bernard on Psalm xcix. (Worthington)”

And here is a brief 3-page commentary on Genesis 1:1-2:3. Page 3 is most relevant (about Days 6 & 7).
I mean “key point” in the sense of properly declared Catholic doctrines. Not relevant observations.

“The opening chapters of the Bible are essential for our understanding of the rest of it. These opening chapters tell us what had been desired by God from the very beginning. The intent of the creation story is not to give a lesson in physics or biology, but a lesson in the theological order of things.”

Really?

This is a good example of why many, not all, Catholics cannot figure out properly declared Catholic doctrines. This is a good example of ignoring truths so that everyone can sleep at night with a smile on their face.
 
This thread has only touched the surface of a true Catholic explanation of Original Sin.

Thank you to participants who respect the Holy Spirit’s role in the visible Catholic Church on earth.

My sincere apology to participants who did not get complete answers to valid questions.

Too late, I recognized that the key to understanding God’s communication needs the foundation of Genesis 1: 25-26. While I have often viewed Genesis 1: 25 as an important shift to Catholicism, it took this thread’s “attacks” on God and Catholicism to see the deeper truth. The truth which obviously is being avoided by those “Catholics” whose vocation appears to be hacking away at the foundation of our original blessing, our beautiful Catholicism.

May God bless you with His original love,
granny
 
The below quote is from the link in post 992.
And here is a brief 3-page commentary on Genesis 1:1-2:3. Page 3 is most relevant (about Days 6 & 7).
“The opening chapters of the Bible are essential for our understanding of the rest of it. These opening chapters tell us what had been desired by God from the very beginning. The intent of the creation story is not to give a lesson in physics or biology, but a lesson in the theological order of things.”

Really?

Sometimes, people are so smart that they miss the common sense of God’s existence. In what part of the “theological order of things” is the theological God thing?

Yes. I am aware of all the intellectual reasoning …

Looks like there has to be a new thread for us ordinary folk.
 
Not long to go until thread is at it’s limit, the true obedience story could be the start of another thread. 👍
Good idea. Thank you

Still, the true obedience story takes place in the creation story.

I am thinking that a “continuation” of this thread could be called…

The True Creation Story
 
Good Morning Granny,
As we head to the barn, as my Irish Mother would say, I wonder why there is so much fear about the “story of disobedience.”
There is no fear at all on my part Granny. First of all, I said that the story “in part” is about obedience. The obedience aspect is so obvious that it is not worth discussing. A&E disobeyed God, and there were consequences. We are to obey authority.

When someone engages in the “tampering” I mentioned earlier, (which is not of malicious intent) trying to resolve conflicting issues in theology, they may very well be doing so without the authorization of the standing Pope or other contemporary “authorities”. You have to understand that doctrine changes (revelation unfolds) extremely slowly. Some concepts “stick” while others do not. And over the years, some of Augustine’s additions did not stick, nor did those of Anselm. However, both Augustine and Anselm, while perhaps “disobeying” some existing authority by presenting the Gospel in slightly different way, were obedient to the Father they knew from within.

If I remember right, Pope Benedict (God bless him!) disagreed with some of the words put forth by Karl Rahner; to some degree then, Rahner’s works are “against authority”.

On the other hand, let’s look at the most applicable definition of the word “tamper”:
2a : to interfere so as to weaken or change for the worse —used with with
Merriam-Webster
It is possible, Granny, to alter the definition of “original sin” without weakening it or changing it for the worse. Such alterations may not be “tampering” at all; indeed, they could change it for the better.

So now I have responded to your inquiry about obedience. Request: for the other person who did not respond to your question about obedience, give that person the benefit of the doubt. He may have thought as I did, that the obedience aspect is simple and obvious, or he may have become tied up in other discussions.
Interestingly, those who fear the most will say that there cannot be disagreements within the Catholic Church. Unity must be maintained. See wonderful citations in previous posts. Common sense says that the only way all humans can all agree is that all humans are living in the world before Genesis 1:25. Talk about blinders.
Now you’re talkin’ Granny! Yes, we can have great disagreement and all be Church! 🙂

So Granny, be wary of the words of people who judge that those who have different ways of looking at things are “against Catholicism”. Their accusing words can be very divisive, and divisiveness is against the workings of the Spirit. Of course, we are also called not to judge others, so saying that any Catholic is “against Catholicism” (unless the accused person agrees!) is contrary to the Gospel and clearly demonstrates disobedience to the call to charity and holiness.

In addition, be very wary of people who are “silent” about the definition of Church. Those who prefer a very narrow aspect without acknowledging the wider aspect are promoting exclusion rather than unity.

For Catholics, true unity is found in Eucharist, not in words. Yes, people disagree! Sure there is some unity in words in that we all profess the same creed and adhere to the same Gospel, but there will always be some disagreement about what those words mean. * Disagreement is not disobedience, nor is it disunion. *
 
Good Morning Granny,
It is a lovely morning.

I hope you will enjoy the continuation thread. You will be able to create all the wonderful stories that you can unfold.

The thread title is The True Creation Story

It will be in my favorite forum, Sacred Scripture Forum.

Because today’s Sunday Holy Sacrifice of the Mass has priority and my kids are next in line, the thread will not be posted immediately.

I hope you enjoy Scripture.
 
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