Is God all-loving

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Is God all-loving, or does he display other characteristics such as wrath?

In this thread I was informed that Catholics don’t believe in protestant ‘penal substitution’ and was directed to a short article that explained the Catholic position on the atonement of Christ. What struck me in the article (first paragraph) was that Catholics don’t believe in a wrathful God (“God the Father is not some wrathful ‘Germanic sky god’” from article) but an all-loving God (if I read it right). But isn’t it correct to say God displays both love and wrath???
 
That is correct, the RCC believes that God is all-loving. It is a matter on how you interpret the OT. God can be angry too, but at least not at the moment I wrote this posting.
 
What to do with verses like this,
Psalms 21:10 DR, “Thou shalt make them as an oven of fire, in the time of thy anger: the Lord shall trouble them in his wrath, and fire shall devour them” or the other 140 or so verses that speak of God’s wrath?
 
Henning said:
What to do with verses like this,
Psalms 21:10 DR, “Thou shalt make them as an oven of fire, in the time of thy anger: the Lord shall trouble them in his wrath, and fire shall devour them” or the other 140 or so verses that speak of God’s wrath?
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I don’t deny it that there are hundreds of verses, especially in the OT describing the wrath of God.

It is just a matter of interpretation of the OT. In your example, there is a word “shall”. So, the verse is giving a warning to the people of what will happen, if they continue to do sins. Is God really got mad with somebody committing sin, take actions and put such man into hell? May be yes, may be no. It is the right of God to express his anger “if any” in a specific way He decides. Human can only imagine what God will do, but for sure, human can never determine what the actual things that God will do.
 
First of all I’ll preface my thoughts by saying that I’m not Catholic, so you definitely shouldn’t take my words as the Catholic perspective on the matter.

The wrath of God and the statement that He is all-loving do not strike me as contradictory. Wrath is the just and appropriate response of God to evil: He cannot abide it. His wrath is also a manifestation of His love, for how could God claim to be loving and yet be satisfied with the presence of evil in the world? How could He claim to love His people and yet be indifferent toward the cause of their suffering?
 
Don’t forget that what is in the Bible is the HUMAN words for God’s emotional state. Just as we cannot comprehend God, we cannot use our words to truly describe him. That said, mirror is correct.

God’s wrath is not hate-filled. God does not punish because he hates. He punishes to correct us because he loves us.
 
swariffin said:
I don’t deny it that there are hundreds of verses, especially in the OT describing the wrath of God.

It is just a matter of interpretation of the OT. In your example, there is a word “shall”. So, the verse is giving a warning to the people of what will happen, if they continue to do sins.
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Here’s a more historical example of God’s wrath,

Ezra 5:12 “But because our fathers had provoked the God of heaven to wrath, He gave them into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, the Chaldean, who destroyed this temple and deported the people to Babylon.”

So God’s wrath fell upon them, an historical fact, in the form of them being deported.
Is God really got mad with somebody committing sin, take actions and put such man into hell? May be yes, may be no. It is the right of God to express his anger “if any” in a specific way He decides.
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So then God does at times express his anger in the form of wrath? He can be wrathful?
 
a_mirror_dimly said:
First of all I’ll preface my thoughts by saying that I’m not Catholic, so you definitely shouldn’t take my words as the Catholic perspective on the matter.

The wrath of God and the statement that He is all-loving do not strike me as contradictory. Wrath is the just and appropriate response of God to evil: He cannot abide it. His wrath is also a manifestation of His love, for how could God claim to be loving and yet be satisfied with the presence of evil in the world? How could He claim to love His people and yet be indifferent toward the cause of their suffering?
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So, you see God’s wrath included in God’s loving nature? But then God is not exclusively all-loving because there’s some wrath there too.

-or-

you see his wrath as a form of love? So if I vent wrath at my neighbor that would be a form of love?
 
ralphinal said:
Don’t forget that what is in the Bible is the HUMAN words for God’s emotional state. Just as we cannot comprehend God, we cannot use our words to truly describe him. That said, mirror is correct.

God’s wrath is not hate-filled. God does not punish because he hates. He punishes to correct us because he loves us.
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What about wrathful punishment on those whom he doesn’t love? Is it still corrective?
 
Henning said:
Here’s a more historical example of God’s wrath,

Ezra 5:12 “But because our fathers had provoked the God of heaven to wrath, He gave them into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, the Chaldean, who destroyed this temple and deported the people to Babylon.”

So God’s wrath fell upon them, an historical fact, in the form of them being deported.

So then God does at times express his anger in the form of wrath? He can be wrathful?
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I see all these happened as a result of the fall. We inherit this fallen world. That’s why we a need a Savior and His name is Jesus.

God has saved as he corrected the fallen world through the death of His Son. Thus the phrase an all-loving God still applies.
 
Henning said:
What about wrathful punishment on those whom he doesn’t love? Is it still corrective?
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God loves all of mankind. He does not love the sins we commit. If God did not love the World, he would not have sent Jesus. He did not send Jesus to condemn the world but that through him all of believe might be saved.
 
Henning said:
So, you see God’s wrath included in God’s loving nature? But then God is not exclusively all-loving because there’s some wrath there too.
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No, because wrath is not the opposite of love.
you see his wrath as a form of love? So if I vent wrath at my neighbor that would be a form of love?
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Yes, but God’s wrath and my personal anger are two very different things. So no, going on an emotional tirade against your neighbor is not an example of love. Punishing someone or correcting them however can be.
 
Henning said:
Is God all-loving, or does he display other characteristics such as wrath?

In this thread I was informed that Catholics don’t believe in protestant ‘penal substitution’ and was directed to a short article that explained the Catholic position on the atonement of Christ. What struck me in the article (first paragraph) was that Catholics don’t believe in a wrathful God (“God the Father is not some wrathful ‘Germanic sky god’” from article) but an all-loving God (if I read it right). But isn’t it correct to say God displays both love and wrath???
Click to expand...
Jesus speaks more about Hell and the wrath of God than Heaven.

The New Testament

The Judgment at Christ’s Coming
5 This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering— 6 since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels 8 in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from [2] the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, 10 when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed. 11 To this end we always pray for you, that our God may make you worthy of his calling and may fulfill every resolve for good and every work of faith by his power, 12 so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.

But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed.

But if our unrighteousness serves to show the righteousness of God, what shall we say? That God is unrighteous to inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human way.)

Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it[1] to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”

for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer.

Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God’s wrath but also for the sake of conscience.

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
 
ralphinal said:
God loves all of mankind. He does not love the sins we commit. If God did not love the World, he would not have sent Jesus. He did not send Jesus to condemn the world but that through him all of believe might be saved.
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But then how to understand Esau:

Romans 9:13 “As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.”

-is from-

Malachi 1:2 "I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob’s brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
3 "And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

So there are those that the LORD hates.
 
I think of it this way. I remember the wrath of my Mom when she was angry at me but she never stopped loving me. Her anger was out of love rather than hate. Can God be angry and show His wrath while still being a lovingkind God, absolutely. :twocents:
 
Henning said:
But then how to understand Esau:

Romans 9:13 “As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.”

-is from-

Malachi 1:2 "I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob’s brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
3 "And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

So there are those that the LORD hates.
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So which is correct, Jesus talking to Nicodemus or your understanding of Malachi?
 
Quote from Ralphinal, “So which is correct, Jesus talking to Nicodemus or your understanding of Malachi?”
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Both Jesus and the prophet are correct. Or are you saying that both Malachi and Paul writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit (1 Pet 1:21) are incorrect.

later in John 3, John says,

John 3:36 “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

That person on whom the wrath of God abides and shall not see life is not being bathed in God’s love just the opposite.
 
RubyT said:
I think of it this way. I remember the wrath of my Mom when she was angry at me but she never stopped loving me. Her anger was out of love rather than hate. Can God be angry and show His wrath while still being a lovingkind God, absolutely. :twocents:
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Thanks for your 2 cents…

But isn’t there a difference between wrath and chastisement? I agree chastisement and love are connected (eg, Hebrews 12), but I don’t see the connection between wrath and love.

God may show his love toward one group of people by pouring out his wrath on another group (eg passover in Egypt), but the group receiving his wrath (eg Egyptian firstborn during the passover) aren’t getting the feeling of God’s deep love for them…just the opposite…no?
 
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