Is God Completely Omniscient?

[JDaniel]

Now I’m confused! You first said, “God does not own capacities,” but now you are saying, “I wouldn’t say He doesn’t have the capacity for something.” Do you mean God does not own the capacities God has?

Spocrates:

No, I meant that as a disclaimer to any statement that would tend to reduce His capability to do anything. I wrote it wrong.

God bless,
jd

 

[spockrates]

Spocrates:

No, I meant that as a disclaimer to any statement that would tend to reduce His capability to do anything. I wrote it wrong.

God bless,
jd

No problem, I’m sure I’ve said more wrong than you!



Let me be more careful to not misunderstand you. Are you saying (1) God has the capacity to do that which He wants to do, but does not do, and so He does not always do what He wants to do? Or are you saying (2) God actually does do all that He wants to do and is capable of doing? Please tell me: Which is a better understanding of omnipotence, (1) or (2)?

 

[JDaniel]

No problem, I’m sure I’ve said more wrong than you!



Let me be more careful to not misunderstand you. Are you saying God has the capacity to do that which He does not do, or are you saying God does all that He is capable of doing.

Spocrates:

All that is doable, God does. How would we know that He hasn’t done something? We tend to impose our limitations on Him if we don’t think He has done a thing to our exquisite specifications. But that just means we’ve not seen it, or recognized it.

God bless,
jd

 

[spockrates]

Spocrates:

All that is doable, God does. How would we know that He hasn’t done something? We tend to impose our limitations on Him if we don’t think He has done a thing to our exquisite specifications. But that just means we’ve not seen it, or recognized it.

God bless,
jd

Yes, but if we did discover–without a doubt–that God will not do something He really wants to do, would that be enough to convince us? Would such evidence be sufficient to show that omnipotence is a capacity to do all that God chooses to do, but not all that he desires to do?

 

[JDaniel]

Yes, but if we did discover–without a doubt–that God will not do something He really wants to do, would that be enough to convince us? Would such evidence be sufficient to show that omnipotence is a capacity to do all that God chooses to do, but not all that he desires to do?

Spockrates:

Yes it certainly would. To some extent He does choose. For example, He does not do that which is abjectly contradictory. In my opinion, not because He can’t do such things, but rather because He does not Will them to be.

God bless,
jd

 

[spockrates]

Spockrates:

Yes it certainly would. To some extent He does choose. For example, He does not do that which is abjectly contradictory. In my opinion, not because He can’t do such things, but rather because He does not Will them to be.

God bless,
jd

Yes, I agree. He cannot do the ridiculous.



OK, please consider this and tell me whether it is proof enough:

This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

(1 Timothy 2:3-4)

Two questions:

1. What does Saint Paul say God wants?
2. Do the Bible and the Church teach that God will get this thing He wants?

 

[BrunoMaria]

Yes, I agree. God cannot do the ridiculous

.

Let’s never say , for God can - as God is omnipotent. He who created the World with all there is and the Universe and Heaven - certainly can do whatever He wishes to do. Therefore let’s be hilariously happy that God is love and good only, and not a “God” as the ancient Greeks thought to have; God’s of revenge, of hate, of all our varying moods to either side - good and bad.

So; as JDaniel as your previous poster wrote yesterday:
“not because God can’t do such things, but rather because God does not Will them to be”.

1. What does Saint Paul say God wants?
2. Do the Bible and the Church teach that God will get this thing He wants?

To question 1:
Paul says in 1 Tim 2,3, that we must pray for all and for our leaders, that they get inspired by the Holy Spirit to do the righteous, so we can live in peace and can spend our time in togetherness with God here in our earthly life.
Togetherness with God means to life Jesus’ word, when He said that
This is My flesh. This is My body. I am actually with you if you eat Ma flesh (in the Holy Eucharist Mt 26,26). And I’m with you always (in Mt. 28,20). So, it’s easy to live a life in togetherness with God, interwoven with prayers wherever and in whichever situation or place we are.

To question 2:
Yes, the Bible and the Church teaches that God will get this thing He wants. But there’s a big >BUT< - for God set our free will before His own desire Paul put into words in 1Tim 2,4; all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
God wishes this, but misusing our God-given free will, many deny God, so, automatically deny eternal life with God in His Kingdom.
Bible and Church teaches this in teaching and preserving Jesus’ dogmas; among others such as in Joh 11,26 and John 5,24: He who hears My word and believes Him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Yours
Bruno

 

[po18guy]

As to the thread title, He may indeed not know everything. I think I heard Him say, “What was that guy at CAF thinking?”

 

[BrunoMaria]

As our Father in Heaven knows what we need before we ask Him - as Jesus said in Mt 6,8 -
God also known what we think and actually want to tell God or our next, before we even thought of it.
So, we must not worry sometimes not to find the right words.

Saint Paul explains this nearer in Romans 8,26-28 (which I found in everyday-language: Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness; for we do not know how to pray nor in our weakness how to speak to God as we ought. Therefore the Spirit himself intercedes for us with sighs too deep for words. And He who searches the hearts of men knows what is the mind of His Spirit He gave us and so is within us, because God’s Spirit intercedes for those, who are God’s own people, according to the will of God. We know that in everything God works for good with those who love Him, who are called according to God’s purpose.

Yours
Bruno

 

[mangy_dog]

I’m thinking there are things that can be known, which God does not know, but I’d like to know what others think.

Omniscient, Omnipotent and Omnipresent.

Diminish one and He wouldn’t be God. Take one away and He wouldn’t be God. Only God gathers all requirements.

There is nothing that is known; yet to be known or just unknown to us- that He doesn’t already know eternally.

 

[JDaniel]

Well, a car that has a gas tank filled with an infinite amount of gasoline could not possibly use all of its fuel. So how could a God with an infinite amount of power posibly use all of it? Look at Nun’s post and do the math, David. Since God is not limited even by time, then how could he possibly use up an limitless amount of power, love, or knowledge?

Spockrates:

God is not a composite. Your analogy above depicts a “composite.” We understand (and believe) God to be singular and Simple. Since He is not made up of parts, there can be no part that is exercising His full power and some other part that is not. God’s Power may be the ever ongoing creation of algorithms, or something like algorithms that, in our explicate view, look to us like matter, energy, space and time. If this is the case, then God is using all of His Power, without individual streams of different intensities, in His Eternal Now.

God bless,
jd

 

[Linusthe2nd]

I’m thinking there are things that can be known, which God does not know, but I’d like to know what others think.

We begin with a definition of God. From Moses through the Prophets to Christ, to the Catholic Church God is He whose essence is Pure Existence. Being Pure Existence He is absolutely Perfect in every imaginable way, having no defect, having no limit to any aspect of His nature. He knows all that is or could be or will be and has provided for all contingencies, He is everywhere, is all powerful.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church has a nice discussion on the nature of God.
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

And Thomas Aquinas has an excellent treatment on the nature of God in Part 1.
newadvent.org/summa/1.htm

So, there is nothing that God does not know.

 

[spockrates]

Let’s never say , for God can - as God is omnipotent. He who created the World with all there is and the Universe and Heaven - certainly can do whatever He wishes to do. Therefore let’s be hilariously happy that God is love and good only, and not a “God” as the ancient Greeks thought to have; God’s of revenge, of hate, of all our varying moods to either side - good and bad.

So; as JDaniel as your previous poster wrote yesterday:
“not because God can’t do such things, but rather because God does not Will them to be”.

To question 1:
Paul says in 1 Tim 2,3, that we must pray for all and for our leaders, that they get inspired by the Holy Spirit to do the righteous, so we can live in peace and can spend our time in togetherness with God here in our earthly life.
Togetherness with God means to life Jesus’ word, when He said that
This is My flesh. This is My body. I am actually with you if you eat Ma flesh (in the Holy Eucharist Mt 26,26). And I’m with you always (in Mt. 28,20). So, it’s easy to live a life in togetherness with God, interwoven with prayers wherever and in whichever situation or place we are.

To question 2:
Yes, the Bible and the Church teaches that God will get this thing He wants. But there’s a big >BUT< - for God set our free will before His own desire Paul put into words in 1Tim 2,4; all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
God wishes this, but misusing our God-given free will, many deny God, so, automatically deny eternal life with God in His Kingdom.
Bible and Church teaches this in teaching and preserving Jesus’ dogmas; among others such as in Joh 11,26 and John 5,24: He who hears My word and believes Him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Yours
Bruno

Hey, Bruno, welcome to the discussion. Yes, I agree that our freedom of choice is also something God wants, so people tragically choose sin over him. So God ends up not getting everything he wants and not doing everything he desires to do. For he will not be able to save all people from hell, as he desires. True?

 

[LaMusicaSenior]

I’m thinking there are things that can be known, which God does not know, but I’d like to know what others think.

If He is not all knowing, our faith is in vain. If He didn’t know something He wouldn’t be perfect. And someone would know something God doesn’t know - making God no longer the creator and necessary being.

 

[spockrates]

as to the thread title, he may indeed not know everything. I think i heard him say, “what was that guy at caf thinking?”

LOL!



True, God would not have to wonder what I’m thinking, but would he ever know the personal experience of thinking exactly like me? Does God know the pleasure of sinning himself and the guilt that follows? Does God know the experience of confessing and repenting of his own sin? Does he know the gratitude that follows someone forgiving him?

 

[spockrates]

Omniscient, Omnipotent and Omnipresent.

Diminish one and He wouldn’t be God. Take one away and He wouldn’t be God. Only God gathers all requirements.

There is nothing that is known; yet to be known or just unknown to us- that He doesn’t already know eternally.

Does he know what it is to sin, feel regret, repent, confess and be forgiven? Jimi Hendrix sang, “Are you experienced? Well, I am.” If Jimi asked God this question, wouldn’t God say he is not experienced like Jimi was experienced, for God has never known the experience of sinning? Or would God say this? “Yes, I am experienced as you are experienced, Jimi. There is no sin I have not personally experienced.”

 

[spockrates]

Spockrates:

God is not a composite. Your analogy above depicts a “composite.” We understand (and believe) God to be singular and Simple. Since He is not made up of parts, there can be no part that is exercising His full power and some other part that is not. God’s Power may be the ever ongoing creation of algorithms, or something like algorithms that, in our explicate view, look to us like matter, energy, space and time. If this is the case, then God is using all of His Power, without individual streams of different intensities, in His Eternal Now.

God bless,
jd

Are you saying power is love is wisdom? Are you saying omnipotence, omnibenevolence and omniscience are not three, but one and the same? There is nothing different about the triune attributes of God?

 

[spockrates]

We begin with a definition of God. From Moses through the Prophets to Christ, to the Catholic Church God is He whose essence is Pure Existence. Being Pure Existence He is absolutely Perfect in every imaginable way, having no defect, having no limit to any aspect of His nature. He knows all that is or could be or will be and has provided for all contingencies, He is everywhere, is all powerful.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church has a nice discussion on the nature of God.
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

And Thomas Aquinas has an excellent treatment on the nature of God in Part 1.
newadvent.org/summa/1.htm

So, there is nothing that God does not know.

Perhaps you are right. To be sure, let us consider another trait of God–omnipotence. Is there anything God does not do? Or does he choose to limit his power?

 

[spockrates]

If He is not all knowing, our faith is in vain. If He didn’t know something He wouldn’t be perfect. And someone would know something God doesn’t know - making God no longer the creator and necessary being.

Does he know the experience of being evil? Are these words of the serpent the oldest truth, or the oldest lie about God?

“For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

(Genesis 3:5)

 

[presidentjlh]

When we say God knows all, perhaps the issue is not whether He can truly know all, but the extent to which we can comprehend that He truly knows all?

Is it not possible that God can defy logic yet obey it at the same time? For if all is possible with God, could God Himself not do such? I tend to think He can.