IS GOD Self Aware?

[Jubilarian]

Of course an all knowing ,all powerful God would be, I just needed to use an effective title above. My deeper question is, could God question his existence, and why He exists? We say that God had no beginning, but could God wonder, “why am I the one and only God?”

I realize I’m putting human thoughts onto God but I can’t help but think that even if God doesn’t question his existence, he knows why He exists and where He came from. I wonder what that answer is?

 

[Bahman]

Of course an all knowing ,all powerful God would be, I just needed to use an effective title above. My deeper question is, could God question his existence, and why He exists? We say that God had no beginning, but could God wonder, “why am I the one and only God?”

I realize I’m putting human thoughts onto God but I can’t help but think that even if God doesn’t question his existence, he knows why He exists and where He came from. I wonder what that answer is?

1. God has to be conscious otherwise he cannot experience anything
2. God has to be able to reflect. This means that there should exist an objective reality that he could see his reflection through his affection.
3. God however is changeless
4. From (2) and (3) we can deduce that God cannot reflect
5. God is not self-aware

 

[Jubilarian]

Interesting answer, I think it would surprise many if they were told that God was not self aware. It get your point but it does seem strange. Then again, the universe is strange.

Are you also saying that God would have to have have “peers” or others of the same ilk to make an assessment of himself. Do we need others to be self aware? Maybe I’m interpreting this wrong though.

Could you elaborate on your comment. Thanks.

 

[Bahman]

Interesting answer, I think it would surprise many if they were told that God was not self aware. It get your point but it does seem strange. Then again, the universe is strange.

Are you also saying that God would have to have have “peers” or others of the same ilk to make an assessment of himself. Do we need others to be self aware? Maybe I’m interpreting this wrong though.

Could you elaborate on your comment. Thanks.

I would be happy to elaborate if I know which part you lack understanding.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Of course an all knowing ,all powerful God would be, I just needed to use an effective title above. My deeper question is, could God question his existence, and why He exists? We say that God had no beginning, but could God wonder, “why am I the one and only God?”

I realize I’m putting human thoughts onto God but I can’t help but think that even if God doesn’t question his existence, he knows why He exists and where He came from. I wonder what that answer is?

God does not change. He knows all things, even the future without need for reflection. Of course is is self aware. You have certainly read enouth of the Bible to know that. How could he have done all he did, how could he have said all he did without being self aware? And he knows who he is without need for reflection, because he know all things without need of reflection. And he knows he had no beginning and that he is God. He does not need to explain the reason why he exists because he knows he has always existed.

Pax
Linus2nd

You are thinking of God as though he were human but he is not. So you can’t think of him that way. If you do you will just be turning him into a super human.

 

[Bahman]

God does not change. He knows all things, even the future without need for reflection. Of course is is self aware. You have certainly read enouth of the Bible to know that. How could he have done all he did, how could he have said all he did without being self aware? And he knows who he is without need for reflection, because he know all things without need of reflection. And he knows he had no beginning and that he is God. He does not need to explain the reason why he exists because he knows he has always existed.

Pax
Linus2nd

You are thinking of God as though he were human but he is not. So you can’t think of him that way. If you do you will just be turning him into a super human.

How God could have self-awareness without reflecting?

 

[Jubilarian]

God does not change. He knows all things, even the future without need for reflection. Of course is is self aware. You have certainly read enouth of the Bible to know that. How could he have done all he did, how could he have said all he did without being self aware? And he knows who he is without need for reflection, because he know all things without need of reflection. And he knows he had no beginning and that he is God. He does not need to explain the reason why he exists because he knows he has always existed.

Pax
Linus2nd

You are thinking of God as though he were human but he is not. So you can’t think of him that way. If you do you will just be turning him into a super human.

I don’t use the term “self aware” in the sense that I didn’t know that God hasn’t been aware of what he does, but his minds understanding of how he could “always be”. You are right about allowing the human limitations of man to be applied to God, but my my just can’t contemplate certain things, hence my question.

 

[Jubilarian]

I would be happy to elaborate if I know which part you lack understanding.

Can you explain how you mean"reflection?" I somewhat understand but some help would be good. Also, do you believe that God knows “why” He is and “how” He is here? Could we as humans ever understand it?

 

[Bahman]

Can you explain how you mean"reflection?" I somewhat understand but some help would be good. Also, do you believe that God knows “why” He is and “how” He is here? Could we as humans ever understand it?

First, what is reflection and what is consciousness. Consciousness by my definition is a irreducible thing, it is very you, which grants the ability to experience and affect things. Consciousness is however is not subject of direct experience hence direct reflection is not possible unless you could experience persona, the very real you. We however can deduce the existence of consciousness as we are very aware of a changes around us some are directed by us, our body, hence we deduce that there exist consciousness hence we deduce that that we are self-aware.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

I don’t use the term “self aware” in the sense that I didn’t know that God hasn’t been aware of what he does, but his minds understanding of how he could “always be”. You are right about allowing the human limitations of man to be applied to God, but my my just can’t contemplate certain things, hence my question.

Of course we can’t understand it and we never will be able to understand it. God’s nature cannot be understood. We can say what it is but we cannot understand how it is the way that it is. Beware of Bahman and a few others around here, they will lead you astray. Better not to get tangled up with them until you are much older and wiser. It can be dangerous - as you have already seen.

God Bless
Linus2nd

 

[Linusthe2nd]

How God could have self-awareness without reflecting?

I really don’t know, I cannot peer into the mind of God. I just know that if you say that God’s self awarness means a type of reflection which causes him to change, then I say that you don’t know what self awarness means to God. And how could you, you are a mere man? I know that God does not change, he has Revealed that and that is what the Church teaches. End of argument, take it or leave it.

If you want to believe that the universe is just a pile of self caused, self perpetuating junk, fine. But that seems highly irrational to me.

Linus2nd

 

[Robert_Sock]

G-d transcends all definitions, including the definition, “existence”
–Maimonides

 

[MrSnaith]

1. God has to be conscious otherwise he cannot experience anything
2. God has to be able to reflect. This means that there should exist an objective reality that he could see his reflection through his affection.
3. God however is changeless
4. From (2) and (3) we can deduce that God cannot reflect
5. God is not self-aware

This is a poorly written syllogism. First, (5) does not follow from (1)-(4). In fact, “self-aware” is not even mentioned in the premises at all. Thus, how could it possibly follow?

Here is a proper syllogism:

1. An actually infinite being of pure act is the cause out of which all finite actualities are created.
2. The properties of an effect are contained in the cause of that effect.
3. Self-awareness is a property of personhood.
4. Some created things have the actuality of personhood.
5. From 3) and 4), the property of self-awareness is an actuality of some created things.
6. From 1), 2) and 5), an actually infinite being of pure act is the cause of the property of self-awareness of some created beings.
7. God is the actually infinite being of pure act who is the cause from whom all finite actualities are created.
8. Therefore, from 6) and 7), God, being the cause of self-awareness, has self-awareness.

 

[Jubilarian]

​

Of course we can’t understand it and we never will be able to understand it. God’s nature cannot be understood. We can say what it is but we cannot understand how it is the way that it is. Beware of Bahman and a few others around here, they will lead you astray. Better not to get tangled up with them until you are much older and wiser. It can be dangerous - as you have already seen.

God Bless
Linus2nd

My name should tell you my age. I appreciate your concern. I don’t take many comments too serious, especially the speculative ones. Peace.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

G-d transcends all definitions, including the definition, “existence”
–Maimonides

I haven’t read Maimonides so I don’t know exactly what he means by that. But God clearly exists and I’m sure, since Maimonides was a devout Jew, that he did not mean that God does not exist. And of course Thomas Aquinas and the Church would disagree that God transcends all definition. We can certainly define God but we cannot know him as he is.

Pax
Linus2nd

 

[Robert_Sock]

I haven’t read Maimonides so I don’t know exactly what he means by that. But God clearly exists and I’m sure, since Maimonides was a devout Jew, that he did not mean that God does not exist. And of course Thomas Aquinas and the Church would disagree that God transcends all definition. We can certainly define God but we cannot know him as he is.

Pax
Linus2nd

I think that what Maimonides is getting at is that God is beyond all worldly attributes, including “existence.” What does it mean to exist? Is it somehow limiting? Why not believe that He is beyond all human reason?

 

[MrSnaith]

Another way of arguing this is:

1. An effect cannot be greater than its cause.
2. Having self-awareness is greater than not having self-awareness.
3. From 1) and 2), the cause of self-awareness must at least also have self-awareness.
4. God caused the effect of self-awareness through the act of creation.
5. From 3) and 4), therefore God has self-awareness.

 

[Theophorus]

I think that what Maimonides is getting at is that God is beyond all worldly attributes, including “existence.” What does it mean to exist? Is it somehow limiting? Why not believe that He is beyond all human reason?

That certainly wouldn’t be the catholic position. Classical Catholic Theism would describe God as Existence itself, as Being itself and all other existent things exist insofar as they participate in the existence of God(that is insofar as God keeps them in existence). We would usually use the philosophical terms act and potency to elucidate this position.
anything that exists is ‘in act’ to a greater or lesser extent. you and I have not always existed and as such, we are limited in our actuality and have potential to change to grow develop etc.

Classical Theism would view God in terms of pure actuality. There is no potential in God, no scope for improvement or growth etc. as such existence does not limit who God is on the catholic view but simply describes who He is in Himself: esse ipsum subsistens as many Theologians from the High medieval period up to the present day would assert .

Classical Theism would also state that God is rational and that the universe reflects the rationality of its creator. As such we can know certain things about God by analogy.

 

[MrSnaith]

That certainly wouldn’t be the catholic position. Classical Catholic Theism would describe God as Existence itself, as Being itself and all other existent things exist insofar as they participate in the existence of God(that is insofar as God keeps them in existence). We would usually use the philosophical terms act and potency to elucidate this position.
anything that exists is ‘in act’ to a greater or lesser extent. you and I have not always existed and as such, we are limited in our actuality and have potential to change to grow develop etc.

Classical Theism would view God in terms of pure actuality. There is no potential in God, no scope for improvement or growth etc. as such existence does not limit who God is on the catholic view but simply describes who He is in Himself: esse ipsum subsistens as many Theologians from the High medieval period up to the present day would assert .

Classical Theism would also state that God is rational and that the universe reflects the rationality of its creator. As such we can know certain things about God by analogy.

Very well stated.

 

[Theophorus]

Very well stated.

:tiphat: