Is God's Love unconditional?

[seeker777]

God is Love…

God is the supreme parent.

Does a parent love his/her child unconditionally? Most do, but God always does.

Does a parent discipline his/her child? Most do, but God always does.

If a Child breaks the law, say murder a teacher in school, does the parent call the police and turn the child over to the authorities? Well, a good parent would… God always does. (God’s authorities are Himself and those he may have chosen to judge)

Does a parent have mercy? God always does… He died for our sins

Would a parent punish their child for infinity, for having commited a finite sin?

None would, God does.

 

[davidv]

Would a parent punish their child for infinity, for having commited a finite sin?

None would, God does.

What you have defined as God’s punishment only exists in this life. If punishment is used to correct bad behavior, it must be accomplished in this life. Once our earthly life is over we cannot make any more moral decisions. Hell is not punishment, hell is God giving the person exactly what they want, life without Him.

 

[miguel]

I’m going to try to make an overly simplified algebraic equation and provide an example where God’s love in the Bible can be viewed as conditional:

1 John 4:8:
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

The English word love in the original Greek text is Agape (ag-ah’-pay). It does not mean to have affection for.

Same word as in 2 John 6 “this is love (agape) that we walk after his commandments”

God = Love.
Love = obeying the commandments.

Rev. 3:19
'Those whom I love (Phileo), I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.

If God, as the word in is used in the original Greek text (Theos), means magistrate, then He only has affection (phileo) to those that obey His Laws.

An example . . .

As a citizen of the USA, I have the right to drive on the streets of this country. But that right is conditional. I can not pull out of my drive way and proceed to drive down the left side of the road. The Law of the land will catch up with me very quickly and either give me a ticket, or I’ll get hit by oncoming traffic.

Could someone please explain to me from a Biblical foundation why Catholics believe God’s Love is unconditional?

I’m a Catholic and I do not believe for one second that God’s love is unconditional. Real love makes demands as your quotes from Scripture make abundantly clear. There is no such thing as unconditional love. The term is pure psycho-babble.

 

[seeker777]

Our love for God should be unconditional.

.

What if you had a 3 year old nephew that was living in Sodom and God burnt him to death in the fire storm?

What if you watched your 6 month old baby drown in the great flood.

What if your sister was living in Sodom and you were excited because she was pregnant with child, but God burnt the unborn baby to death in the fire storm?

What if your son was a soldier who drowned when the red sea was parted and came crashing down on him?

What if you were some noboby living under pharoh and God had your first born child killed?

…it’s easy to say love God uncondionally, but when God was killing everyone violently in the old testament, it must have been really difficult.

 

[BRB]

I’m a Catholic and I do not believe for one second that God’s love is unconditional. Real love makes demands as your quotes from Scripture make abundantly clear. There is no such thing as unconditional love. The term is pure psycho-babble.

 

[miguel]

…Hell is not punishment…

I don’t know where you get this. It is a punishment and will be experienced body and soul after the general resurrection…“we believe in the resurrection of the body”. The Catechism explains this teaching.

 

[seeker777]

hell is God giving the person exactly what they want, life without Him.

Yes, your suggesting that God is taking hissy fit for infinity?

Like if a 3 year old doesn’t want to eat supper…you put him in time out for 5 minutes, then you give him his supper. You don’t starve your child death and refuse to feed him forever.

Mortal humans are patient and forgiving, yet God is not?

More to the point…hell is punishment. God punishes his children for all of eternity.

God could will the souls of the damned out of existence, but he does not, as he is obviously content knowing that his kids are suffering agony for a trillion x a trillion x a trillion x a trillion years! ( and longer than that)

Odd.

 

[BRB]

Real love makes demands as your quotes from Scripture make abundantly clear. There is no such thing as unconditional love. QUOTE]

Humans have a hard time understanding/exhibiting unconditional love. Mothers come the closest to demonstrating it.

Only Christ & Trinity have perfect, unconditional love.

 

[BRB]

Would a parent punish their child for infinity, for having commited a finite sin?

None would, God does.

So, God is bad and mankind is good, holy ? Who is your spiritual advisor ?

 

[miguel]

Humans have a hard time understanding/exhibiting unconditional love. Mothers come the closest to demonstrating it.

Only Christ & Trinity have perfect, unconditional love.

Sorry but that’s nonsense. Saying love is unconditional guts the term of any real meaning. God’s love is demanding. It can’t be demanding and unconditional at the same time. To say his love is unconditional is to say he doesn’t expect anything from us. Nothing could be further from the truth. It’s an insidious and dangerous idea I think…along the lines of once save always saved (OSAS).

 

[BSHoop96]

What if you had a 3 year old nephew that was living in Sodom and God burnt him to death in the fire storm?

What if you watched your 6 month old baby drown in the great flood.

What if your sister was living in Sodom and you were excited because she was pregnant with child, but God burnt the unborn baby to death in the fire storm?

What if your son was a soldier who drowned when the red sea was parted and came crashing down on him?

What if you were some noboby living under pharoh and God had your first born child killed?

…it’s easy to say love God uncondionally, but when God was killing everyone violently in the old testament, it must have been really difficult.

Of course it must have been difficult…just as it was probably extremely hard for the Jews to retain their faith at Auschwitz…or for the loved ones of those killed in 9/11…or the parents of a child with cancer…or the family of a soldier killed in Iraq…or any number of tragedies in the world today. Suffering is one of the hardest things to wrap your brain around and try to understand. But faith should not only be in the good times. We will all have bad times. Some more so than others. This is too deep a subject to be covered here I think.

 

[BSHoop96]

Yes, your suggesting that God is taking hissy fit for infinity?

Like if a 3 year old doesn’t want to eat supper…you put him in time out for 5 minutes, then you give him his supper. You don’t starve your child death and refuse to feed him forever.

Mortal humans are patient and forgiving, yet God is not?

More to the point…hell is punishment. God punishes his children for all of eternity.

God could will the souls of the damned out of existence, but he does not, as he is obviously content knowing that his kids are suffering agony for a trillion x a trillion x a trillion x a trillion years! ( and longer than that)

Odd.

Seeker…if one ends up in hell…it is by his own choice. We have free will. However, there is no sin one can commit that would be greater than God’s mercy. One only has to repent and ask for forgiveness. I guess you could call that a condition if you want. AND God loves ALL…including a sinner.

 

[BRB]

Saying love is unconditional guts the term of any real meaning. God’s love is demanding. It can’t be demanding and unconditional at the same time. ).

Humans tend to think in either/or terms.

God’s ways / thoughts are not ours. When you put yourself in judge of God, having only human understandings … you err.

 

[davidv]

Yes, your suggesting that God is taking hissy fit for infinity?

No. You are putting words in my mouth that are not mine.

Like if a 3 year old doesn’t want to eat supper…you put him in time out for 5 minutes, then you give him his supper. You don’t starve your child death and refuse to feed him forever.

Mortal humans are patient and forgiving, yet God is not?

The time for forgiveness is now. It is free for the asking.

More to the point…hell is punishment. God punishes his children for all of eternity.

No, hell is not punishment, it is justise. In this context the two are very different.

God could will the souls of the damned out of existence, but he does not, as he is obviously content knowing that his kids are suffering agony for a trillion x a trillion x a trillion x a trillion years! ( and longer than that)

Odd.

Actually I believe that God cannot uncreate anything.

 

[davidv]

I’m a Catholic and I do not believe for one second that God’s love is unconditional. Real love makes demands as your quotes from Scripture make abundantly clear. There is no such thing as unconditional love. The term is pure psycho-babble.

If God’s love is conditional, please explain what it is dependent upon.

What can any of us do, or not do, that causes God to not love us?

 

[davidv]

Sorry but that’s nonsense. Saying love is unconditional guts the term of any real meaning. God’s love is demanding. It can’t be demanding and unconditional at the same time. To say his love is unconditional is to say he doesn’t expect anything from us. Nothing could be further from the truth. It’s an insidious and dangerous idea I think…along the lines of once save always saved (OSAS).

How is this nonsense?

God loves us so much that He allows us to freely choose to obey Him, or not. We are not forced to meet His demands.

 

[davidv]

I don’t know where you get this. It is a punishment and will be experienced body and soul after the general resurrection…“we believe in the resurrection of the body”. The Catechism explains this teaching.

OK. You call it punishment. I’ll call it justice. In either case, hell will be just and deserved.

I understand and accept this teaching by the way.

 

[seeker777]

Of course it must have been difficult…just as it was probably extremely hard for the Jews to retain their faith at Auschwitz…or for the loved ones of those killed in 9/11…or the parents of a child with cancer…or the family of a soldier killed in Iraq…or any number of tragedies in the world today. Suffering is one of the hardest things to wrap your brain around and try to understand. But faith should not only be in the good times. We will all have bad times. Some more so than others. This is too deep a subject to be covered here I think.

Your not addressing the point…in every example I provided, it was specifically God doing the killing and violently.

 

[seeker777]

If God’s love is conditional, please explain what it is dependent upon.

What can any of us do, or not do, that causes God to not love us?

By not believing in him, people are thrown into a place called hell for infinity.

That’s not love.

 

[seeker777]

Actually I believe that God cannot uncreate anything.

So, your God is not omnipotent. Clearly, you do not worship the Christian God.