Is going 5mph over the speed limit a sin

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wjp984 said:
It just so happens I am currently in one of them where it specifically says that drivers going 5 miles over are allowed official tolerance. Likewise, my domicile is one of the prima facie states so it is the law I would follow while there. Check at the bottom of the link I posted. If that is not enough to prove my point, I don’t know what is.

There are more than three states by the way. Many more have mixed policies which means you still can argue your case.

Finally, you are innocent until proven guilty and therefore sinless until proven otherwise I guess. If I truly feel I am not breaking the law and I have reason to back my claims up, which I do based on my jurisdiction’s policies, then I am not even sinning venially since I would not have any intent to sin at all even if I am later proven worong, which I never have been, since I have never been pulled over for being clocked at 10 miles over or less./QUOTE]

I don’t think you are being truthful. Let’s try this then, have you ever been stopped for speeding? How many times and at what speeds.
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Most states have absolute speed limits, meaning that a speed in excess of the limit is illegal per se. However, some states have prima facie speed limits.[63] This offers motorists a valid defense to a speeding charge if it can be proven that the speed was in fact reasonable and prudent.

A successful prima facie defense is rare. Not only does the burden of proof rest upon the accused, a successful defense may involve expert witnesses or other expenses well in excess of the cost of a ticket. Furthermore, because prima facie defenses must be presented in a court, such a defense is difficult for out of town motorists. Speed limits in Texas, Utah[64], and Rhode Island are prima facie. Some other states have a hybrid system: speed limits may be prima facie up to a certain speed or only on certain roads.
 
ricko said:
wjp984;5994891:
It just so happens I am currently in one of them where it specifically says that drivers going 5 miles over are allowed official tolerance. Likewise, my domicile is one of the prima facie states so it is the law I would follow while there. Check at the bottom of the link I posted. If that is not enough to prove my point, I don’t know what is.

There are more than three states by the way. Many more have mixed policies which means you still can argue your case.

Finally, you are innocent until proven guilty and therefore sinless until proven otherwise I guess. If I truly feel I am not breaking the law and I have reason to back my claims up, which I do based on my jurisdiction’s policies, then I am not even sinning venially since I would not have any intent to sin at all even if I am later proven worong, which I never have been, since I have never been pulled over for being clocked at 10 miles over or less./
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QUOTE]

I don’t think you are being truthful. Let’s try this then, have you ever been stopped for speeding? How many times and at what speeds.

I have been pulled over three times. The first time I was going 90 in a 65 but the cop was really nice since it was my first time ever being pulled over so he let me off with a warning.

My first actual ticket I was going 81 in a 65 down a hill when I was not paying attention to my spedometer. I did not have the intent for the sin here.

My second ticket I was going 55 in a 35 and likewise was going down a hill in a speed trap and not paying attention. So I don’t think there was sin there either.

Now I usually consistenlty drive between 5 and 15 over depending on the circumstances and the custom of the jurisdiction I am in. Yes, I do check the laws and customs of the states that I drive in. For example. I know that Michigan is pretty lenient for going a few miles over but those a holes on the Ohio Turnpike will crucify you.

About once every 3 years or so I get pulled over and it’s never been for going less than 15 over.
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They do things different down south from what I am reading here.

🙂

I am highly amused by this thread in spite of that observation.

I can’t even believe the question, let alone the responses here. You guys sure are entertaining!
 
wjp984 said:
ricko;5995049:
My second ticket I was going 55 in a 35 and likewise was going down a hill in a speed trap and not paying attention. So I don’t think there was sin there either.
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Not to pick on you, but…
While there was no intent to sin, it could be said that the failure to be aware that you’re 20 mph over is negligence or daydreaming or whatever. I think that this is a different discussion than the morality of simply going over the speed limit, but I still feel like pointing out that “not paying attention” isn’t really an excuse. :whistle:
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surritter said:
wjp984;5995321:
Not to pick on you, but…
While there was no intent to sin, it could be said that the failure to be aware that you’re 20 mph over is negligence or daydreaming or whatever. I think that this is a different discussion than the morality of simply going over the speed limit, but I still feel like pointing out that “not paying attention” isn’t really an excuse. :whistle:
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Agreed. There are some people that make it a habit to speed. I’ve talked to many and they always have an excuse. Some people tell me that they do NOT slow down in fog even though they cannot see what’s up ahead. Funny how some complain about any war. Viet Nam had 55,000 dead in 10 years of war but during that same period 500,000 died on our nations highways. I felt safer in Viet Nam than I do driving here.
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Speeding doesn’t kill anyone anyway nor does speeding cause accidents. If it did all the traffic officers would be dead because speeding is the only way to overtake violators. They drive safely while exceeding the posted limit…professionally. Speeding increases the severity of collisions. The actual cause of accidents is careless driving…loss of control due to inattention…unsafe lane changes…following too closely and other violations( stop sign-signal s etc) that some law enforcement agencies ignore because issuing citations for speeding is much easier…more revenue enhancing and can be detected with radar. It is like shooting ducks in a barrel for them.
5 miles an hour over the speed limit should not even be an enforceble violation. If all I did was write that kind of punctillious citation I could not look at myself in the mirror…and I didn’t…write them that is.😉
 
It really doesn’t make sense to speed. I calculated it out once and if you have the time you should too…

It was some rediculous figure how much exponentially greater the impact and g-force was on your body in a collision going 65 instead of 60. And for what? If you drove for an hour you might save 5 minutes assuming you didn’t ever have to slow down below 65.
 
If you’re feeling guilty about it when you look at the speedometer, and if your reasoning is “Everyone else is doing it, so I have to do it too” … I don’t know what the official answer is, but maybe you need to take a closer look at why you think it’s okay or want it to be okay. It’s not going to get you there much faster. I love when someone is in such a hurry to get around me only to end up stopped right in front of me at the stoplight.

Your likelihood of being injured or causing injury to others in an accident increases as your speed does.

Do yourself a favor and just leave earlier so you can relax while you drive.
 
I can’t believe all of the justifications going on here. Going “just a little bit over the speed limit” is like “just eating a little meat on Good Friday”. You’re either obeying the law, or you aren’t. You either intend to obey the law, or you intend to disobey it.

Ever hear of the concept, “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s”? That means you need to obey the laws of your state. And if you disobey those laws, that means you’ve willingly committed a sin. Furthermore, even if God forgives your sins, the state won’t forgive your sins or traffic tickets.

By the way, according to that definition, the careless driving ticket I got last December makes me a criminal as well. The crime is a sin, and since a criminal record never goes away, that’s an unforgivable sin – as are most of my sins, really.
 
In California and probably many other states followed, a citation for a moving violation represents an “infraction” not a crime or misdemenanor. This clever difference means that you are not entitled to a jury trial to defend yourself…you are not a criminal:D
 
Thanks, guys. Now I have “I Can’t Drive 55” stuck in my head. 😃

We are called to “render unto Caesar” and obey legitimate authority if the laws are just. One might make the argument that, in many circumstances, the posted speed limits are not just. (Note, I am not prepared to make such an argument myself, but I have heard such a thing before).

The most important thing is to drive safely and not to endanger yourself or anyone else on the road. 👍

Pismopal brought up an interesting point that speeding is considered an “infraction” rather than a crime or misdemeanor. I wonder what implications that has for this discussion. It’s probably an infraction to cross the street at some place other than a crosswalk, too, but I don’t think that means one needs to confess jaywalking.
 
I don’t think this has been mentioned yet…

Exceeding the speed limit, as well as ignoring other traffic laws (stop signs, right of way, etc) leads to a perception by people that laws are “optional”, or “for everybody else”, or “only if the cops are watching.”

Ultimately this leads to “Well, I get away with not stopping at stop signs, and speeding whenever the cops aren’t around, so even though X is against the law, I can probably get away with that too.”

We should enforce the laws as written. If the laws are wrong, get them changed. But to make a law that everybody ignores with no consequences is the absolute worst thing we can do.
 
ricmat said:
I don’t think this has been mentioned yet…

Exceeding the speed limit, as well as ignoring other traffic laws (stop signs, right of way, etc) leads to a perception by people that laws are “optional”, or “for everybody else”, or “only if the cops are watching.”

Ultimately this leads to “Well, I get away with not stopping at stop signs, and speeding whenever the cops aren’t around, so even though X is against the law, I can probably get away with that too.”

We should enforce the laws as written. If the laws are wrong, get them changed. But to make a law that everybody ignores with no consequences is the absolute worst thing we can do.
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That’s a fair point.

I would add that our society is very legalistic and we have so many laws on almost every aspect of our lives that I don’t think it’s only the traffic laws that are leading to the general impression that “it’s only wrong if you get caught.” When the law, in effect, attempts to micromanage our behavior, I think people tend to “push back” by shirking the laws they know they can get away with shirking.
 
Joe_5859 said:
That’s a fair point.

I would add that our society is very legalistic and we have so many laws on almost every aspect of our lives that I don’t think it’s only the traffic laws that are leading to the general impression that “it’s only wrong if you get caught.” When the law, in effect, attempts to micromanage our behavior, I think people tend to “push back” by shirking the laws they know they can get away with shirking.
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Actually, the “X” in my example was not meant to be other minor traffic laws. The point I was making is that if these minor laws are not enforced, it eventually leads to murder, rape, embezzlement, etc. If a potential embezzler were caught everytime he/she was speeding, or not stopping at a stop sign - do you think they would dare embezzle? As one example.
 
Does all this mean that at the printed date on my milk carton I must throw it away or risk censure?😉
 
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